Er, the code wasn't kept on the computer running OE. Outlook was used to install keyloggers. I'm sure it was a lot more in-depth, but relatively straightforward, to get to the source files once that was done.
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Blame Microsoft for their shoddy software full of security holes. I have to admit, WinXP was really more stable, but the security holes were all still there.
Hmmm, it really doesn't matter WHO makes the software. People will ALWAYS find a way in. To make something as user friendly as Windows products, that appeal to the masses, I'm sure there are bound to be problems.
And I'm sure this isn't the full reason for the delay. I'm assuming the people at Vivendi were like "Hey Valve! We want more money in such an such quarter, so release this game near Christmas time so our stock looks better and we can get a higher sell rate", or something to that effect. I wouldn't be shocked if the game has been done for weeks.Comment
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im still saying that the HL2 is not finished, and this is an delay escuse... didn you guys think that maybe that source code ..is not a final source code ? and maybe just a motive to delay HL2.
why they want to delay hl2 ?Comment
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Edited by [user="26841"] @ [time="1065164595"]
I simply can't believe you all...
HL2 was delayed because it's not done. That info is directly from a good friend of mine (irl, not over the net) who is related to a VALVe employee. End of that discussion.
Secondly, the amount of ignorance most of you have displayed in the comments is quite frankly overwhelming to me. First, we have the idiots claiming it's a publicity stunt. I don't have the ability to understand how anyone could be so utterly stupid as to believe such a downright idiotic thing as that. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO ABILITY TO THINK, SO STOP POSTING.
Next, we have the people talking about the usefulness of the code. I haven't looked at the source personally, despite my personal interest as a programmer, simply because I know how I'd be feeling right now if I was a VALVe employee and other people were looking at illegally distributed code.
The graphics, physics, and AI code are likely the most interesting to competing software developers. Certainly no software firm is gonna be dumb enough to directly copy something out of the Source engine directly. However, programmers themselves certainly could look over the code and get a lot of good ideas that will work their way into other games. It's doubtful that any company would decide not to license the Source engine right away if they had been planning on it, but it very likely will impact future licensing, if intellectual theft goes unnoticed. Regardless, none of these are huge issues with cheating, though they certainly affect VALVe's profit margin.
The biggest concern with cheating, however, is the net code. I don't know if that is fully in this leaked code or not, but if it is, honestly it will probably have to be totally reworked. Once your net code is cracked, any cheat can defeat all authentication/verification and anti-cheat routines, as an advanced cheat could detect any attempt to update the anti-cheat, and simply report that the update was successful without actually allowing any anti-cheat to operate. So yeah, chances are very good (in my opinion) that, if the net code is present, it will have to be reworked considerably.
Luckily this isn't the final version of the code, and VALVe has time to change things before the release. We have yet to see whether the release will be pushed back again or not. Hopefully it's mostly modeling and art that remains to be done, so the programmers can use the time in tandem to redo some of the code.
Next, this attack wasn't done in response to the delay, obviously. Perhaps someone picked this day to release the stolen code, but the hacking efforts were long before it was determined whether the scheduled release would be made.
Moving on, VALVe said they suspect that Outlook was to blame. They don't know for sure yet, from what was said here.
Finally, you cannot totally isolate anything from the internet without making it horribly inconvenient to work on. A server can be totally secure, allowing only certain local machines to access it, but if those accessing machines are compromised, then your "secure" server is also compromised.
There we go, an old-time classic Nighthawk-style manifesto. Now stop your incessant posting of ignorant drivel, people, along with the "I'm going to smash the hacker's face" nonsense. You're not going to do anything as a random geek on the internet, so stop trying to act all e-macho.Comment
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A little incensed, perhaps, but overall good stuff Nighthawk. I've now read a good amount about all this and it seems to be that 25% of the net has the code, 25% doesn't want the code, and the other 50% is in a frenzied panic trying to figure out "WHERE CAN I DOWNLOAD HLAF LIFE 2?!?" Madness I say. It's just a good thing that the game wasn't released on time... imagine the chaos if, instead of speculation, we were all given first hand views of the quickest made and most anti-cheat-proof hacks ever?
I say wait a few days for the actual impact of this to be realized. Who knows, maybe it won't be that bad.
Or maybe it will...Comment
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-:Nighthawk:- wrote..
Where there's smoke, there's fire, and Outlook is, for lack of a better phrase, a smoking pile of flaming shit.
Moving on, VALVe said they suspect that Outlook was to blame. They don't know for sure yet, from what was said here.
Finally, you cannot totally isolate anything from the internet without making it horribly inconvenient to work on. A server can be totally secure, allowing only certain local machines to access it, but if those accessing machines are compromised, then your "secure" server is also compromised.
You can improve security without making it inconvienient by removing as much Microsoft software as possible. In all seriousness, if you use lesser known software, there is a smaller chance that there will be hackers digging for holes in that product. Microsoft's software is the biggest target in the world for hackers, because it's on something like 98% of all computers in the world. So, probably 98% of the hackers in the world hack Microsoft software.
And for everyone going "e-thug" on these hackers... they're going to have cheats in HL2 and you won't, so they'll be e-thugging you!Comment
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-:Nighthawk:- wrote..
we have no ability to think? that's why you're being hand-fed answers to shit you have no clue about. gabe newell is only telling the truth because fanboys like you believe him. it could have been a donut vending machine that fell on a keyboard and emailed a hotmail account the source for all you know.
HL2 was delayed because it's not done. That info is directly from a good friend of mine (irl, not over the net) who is related to a VALVe employee. End of that discussion.
Secondly, the amount of ignorance most of you have displayed in the comments is quite frankly overwhelming to me. First, we have the idiots claiming it's a publicity stunt. I don't have the ability to understand how anyone could be so utterly stupid as to believe such a downright idiotic thing as that. YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO ABILITY TO THINK, SO STOP POSTING.Comment
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Edited by [user="39419"] @ [time="1065167493"]
Everyone is thinking that it was just hackers looking for an easy way to get cheats all set for the release of the game, but there's one other angle that's being ignored - industrial espionage. Think about it. Yeah, it may not be the complete source, but who says that whoever posted it doesn't have the complete source in hand, and didn't pull a black-hack job for say, maybe....ID Games? Doom 3 comes to mind.
Whether or not they got a full dump of the source is immaterial. What they have could help another company or corporation build a game around that source and basically design a game cheaper than it would have been to R&D the source from scratch.
If Gabe is right that this version of RemoteAnywhere was coded specifically for VALVe, that tells me right off the bat that it could have been a contract hack by someone either on the inside or someone who had intimate knowledge of VALVe's network and security arrangements. Factor in that also D3, which is scheduled for release at about the same time as HL2, is also supposed to be a ground-breaking game with similar graphical and game characteristics. The HL2 source code would be immensly valuable to them to know where HL2 stands compared to their progress, would also allow them to perhaps seee some flaws in the code, allowing for the fact that it wasn't finished, and cover similar problems in their code or do any number of things.
Nighthawk covered his bases pretty well here. Anyone even remotely familiar with internet security knows that it's a myth. Hackers have the advantage of surprise 9 out of 10 times and know your security flaws before you do. If the problem started with Gabe's computer, it most likely propragated to other computers before he could format the drive to try to stop it.
I also would expect yet another delay just over this. VALVe has to consider possible damages to it's product over this.
In short, my instincts tell me that this was an inside job for profit. The hacker gains no real value by just ripping the code and posting it despite going through what seems to be such an elaborate setup.Comment
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Heh, let me guess, if we get really lucky, Ritual Entertainment will grab the code and use it to turn CS:CZ into something other than a disappointing series of delays with little prospect of being extraordinary, eh? If only...
But yeah, I think there'd be a few eyebrows raised if suddenly some no-talent hack of a software developer suddenly puts out a graphics engine that rivals HL2's capabilities. Well established developers probably have more to lose than gain by trying to do something like that, especially companies like ID. I'm still in favor of the theory that it was hacker(s) with nothing better to do, but there's really no way of knowing.
And finally, Gabe Newell has no reason to lie about any of this. Sorry if I came across a bit harsh in my earlier comments, guys, as there definitely are intelligent ones among you, don't get me wrong. It's just that your small candles of logic are being washed away by the vast sea of ignorance and speculation.Comment
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tbh the screenshots of the source look to me like a re-worked HL SDK. Since HL2 was being re-built from the ground up I find it hard to believe that some of the code would look so strikingly similar!Comment
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wow
you nerd need to /part #csnation and /j #conspiracytheory
:P
haha i kid
but wow valve got raped...Comment
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Edited by [user="152360"] @ [time="1065171693"]
Then there's the whole ethical debate on intellectual theft as it stands anyway.
Consider...HL2's source code could drastically improve the quality of non-VALVe games, as could any source code shared with VALVe could improve the quality of HL2.
There's a difference between competitive marketplace, and a little "oh, hey, you have an error on line 352." I personally feel that game designers and programmers could be a little more sharing of their knowledge. Not to the point of giving out HL2 source before it's released, certainly, but look at Counter-Strike? It's been years since it was released. Certainly any code in it could help other struggling designers? Take a look at 3DO's Might & Magic IX. It could've run off a Half-life or Counter-strike engine, at least partly, and very much improved the quality of the game.
Then again, too much sharing of intellectual property results in not enough profit to make it worthwhile to develop in the first place. Computer programmers have wives (or husbands!) and kids with hungry mouths, just like anyone else. Money has to be made, or the business will fade and nobody gets any games.
That said, whoever did take the source code from VALVe was stealing, and even considering the possible ethics of it, the person or persons involved were doing so to the knowing detriment of VALVe and it's employees. A crack of VALVe's HL2 source and release to the net could be only mildly frowned upon...if it occurred two years from now, perhaps. But pre-release?
I personally hope everyone involved with causing this crime is caught and sentenced properly.
(Edit: I'm referring to the idea of source code being used for other developers. The fact that the code could be used for cheating furthers the idea that cracking the code and spreading it is inherently illegal.)Comment
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You know I feel dumber after reading so many of these comments...Comment
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Edited by [user="180053"] @ [time="1065176240"]
it was bound to get hacked at some point, at least now they know so they can keep an eye out, fuckit, no point crying over spilt milk, I just wanna play the bloody thing :)Comment
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