VAC 7/23

[*Vamp*]

*has spotted two flaws in rizzuh's argument*



Erm....



*decides to keep his mouth shut about them*



Er anyway, about C-D messing with bullet reg and the hitboxes - while to a certain extent, it does change them due to how C-D works, it doesn't change them drastically enough to warrent concern, provided the server itself isn't running a ton of other random programs. Just a dedicated server on it's own machine with C-D running won't effect the hitboxes/bullets enough to cause a problem. It's when you get servers like the games-fusion servers, the ones with a ton of random add-ons, and the ones that arn't dedicated/don't have their own machine to run off, that you get problems. And obviously the highier ping you get the more bullets will be effected, but that's pretty much standard with all servers, C-D or not. Sometimes it will effect the hitboxes quite abit though. Then again, which would you rather have, the possiblity of cheaters being able to use hacks easy as pie on the server, or hitboxes that sometimes mess up? I know which I'd rather have.

[[CyW]-=BigBear=-]

100% fair competition in CS is only possible on LAN for the time being, simple as that!



But like I said before, I've put my hopes on the HL2 engine, hoping it's alot more cheatproof then the HL engine was/is.. And I still believe there has to be a way to make 100% sure people don't cheat in online games.. I mean, if banks etc can make 100% secure transactions over the internet, why can't online games be made 100% secure? Maybe a stupid comment (I'm no programmer or anything), but that's what I think.. There has to be a way..

[*Vamp*]

[CyW]-=BigBear=- wrote..

100% fair competition in CS is only possible on LAN for the time being, simple as that!

Actually there's a few very easy ways to cheat on LAN which no anti-cheat tool will ever stop. The first is too have randoms watching all the screens telling everyone where everyone else is, though this form of 'LAN Wallhack' usually ends up with yourself and Co. being kicked out the LAN center. The second is to chat to whoever you're playing with, putting them off their game at key moments, though this isn't a good idea if you end up talkign so much oyu put yourself off. If you're sitting next to them and they're on an AWM/P binge, you can give 'em a good slap round the chops, though be prepared to take one back should you then frag them as a result of your mindless slapping. If you're feeling sneaky, wait untill various food and drink is produced, and kill them during that time of "okay, nobody shoot anyone while we eat". Then of course there is the ultimate LAN cheat; when they nip off to the loo, type 'kill' into their console. The only flaw in any of these ahem, 'hacks' is that whoever you cheat against will always be able to one up you with the ultimate in vengeful tactics: kicking the living hell out of you outside the LAN center. Cheat at your own risk.

[phrzn]

cheats suck 4 serious

[bozer]

I couldn't be bothered to read those long posts, but I did skim it a little. Cheating is bad sure, but it depends on which servers you pub on I guess. I really dont think cheating is half as bad as the people who accuse others of cheating (without having any proof).

[StealthMode]

I saw it coming, not because of the hlds win32 list either....8)

[Serious Sam]

Typing to opposite team members is cheating? Doesn't that get you disqualified as soon as an admin sees it?

[riggagoogoo]

Since the latrest VAC update I have been unable to join any servers using CS under Linux (using winex) it was working fine on the 22nd and nothing has changed on my PC since then. Has anyone else noticed this yet???

[Antinous-ODY]

Yay for short posts, I liked the arguments by rizzuh and MikeJ. I dont wanna read any more though guys, so please stop. I cannot restrain myself from reading them so the more u type the more I suffer. I am dyslecksic <-- See what I mean. The reading makes me die.



No quote but someone said something about no main or widely used cheat that was out awhile ago, I believe there was one. What was it called... oh yeah OGC



And as a response to another post which was probably a rhetorical question, as long as they keep updating VAC, there will still be arguing over the cheating scene.



1337 h4x0r s7yl3!!111

[entRo]

Spartibus wrote..

you're a moron. there are probably 10 cheats MAX that get passed either one of them. 5%? go away

Eh, what I meant was stated very badly. Let me explain.



95% of the latest cheats get by VAC and CD. Cheating isn't nearly as bad on public servers as it used to be, but even when cheaters do come into pub servers, they don't bother hiding it and it's fairly easy to deal with them. Cheating in the league scene is a different story, though. I'd say there are more cheaters in the public scene for obvious reasons, but the ratio of legit players to hackers in leagues is getting ridiculous. CAL was catching 10-15 hackers every 2 or 3 weeks during the normal season, many of them in CAL-m.



I go to alot of LAN tournaments, and I'd say it's pretty damn difficult, not to mention risky, to cheat on LAN. At most small tournaments you could probably interp pretty easily if there is no sort of administrative power controlling the control panel and properties of files. Though, if you were caught it would be extremely embarassing and you'd probably get your ass kicked by the opposing team, and possibly your teammates.



CAL's system of catching hackers through their demos and screenshot dumps seems to be working pretty well, but there are too many people playing in CAL for the anti-cheat team to look through every suspicious demo. You can get every anti-cheat you want on a server, update it to the latest version, but there will still be cheaters. The fight against them is a defensive one, so a counter-attack can't be made until an attack is first made. It's not like we can make "pre-emptive" strikes against people who could possibly consider cheating, we have to wait for the damage to be done first. There's the wallhack block which would be considered "Cheat Prevention", but you can still wallhack. WWCL is supposed to prevent config hacks, but getting around that is ridiculously easy.



If a cheater has the determination to get the latest hacks and go cheat, he'll do it, VAC/HLGuard/CD won't stop him, and he'll most likely get away with it if he's smart. If they stopped updating all anti-cheats tomorrow, I wouldn't really care. There wouldn't be a great number of new cheaters in leagues, and public play I could care less about, that's what admins are for.



I can't stand cheaters, but it's something we'll just have to learn to deal with, because they're not going away, atleast not in this game.



BTW: I go to LANs and speedhack in their public servers cause it's fun :X

[Ghengis]

OOo u said something about screeenshot dumps entr0 which gives me an idea. It may be something that already happens but anyway here goes.



U know cs can take a screenie at the end of hte game. Well couldn't a third party prog or mod, take random screeenies DURING PLAY, and send them, (maybe convert em to a small gif..) to server?



The admin can then review these random 'drug' tests, to see what goes on. The player never gets to see which shots are taken and when they are sent.



Im not smart enough to do this but Im damn sure theres a coding genius that could do this. Of course if this is already what u mean by screenshot dumps then mY idea is crap. Although I tink htey ely on the player to do it, and he cna always turn off his display of hacks before screenshot.



WEll just a thought. if they trialed it in CaL, tey could then release it to pub server admins. It may mean they have to do some actual admining and spend time trawling through the logs. Although, there are recognition programmes which may look out for text on the screen...



Each pic should be stamped with player name, ip and won. Maybe they could build it INTO 1.7 so as to prevent this 'oh I got to dl something type hassle.'



Anyways just a thought.

[LordIcon]

Edited by [user="33050"] @ [time="1059120100"]

Phr0z3n wrote..

cheats suck 4 seriousHa Ha Ha!



Anyways, I was not aware that cd keys were stored in plain text in the registry making it that much easier to steal. Hopefully they will fix that. No one wants to get their Key stolen then banned by VAC.



Serouisly though, someone should make a cliff notes version of this post. After reading all of this, I think I need some advil!



Gpig, it would be in your best interests to shut your pie hole. You make no sense, and rizzuh is tearing you a new one over it. As entertaining as that is, it hurts to watch. :x

[CheesyPeteza]

[MrLink]

I just wish VAC would be a little less public about it's updates.



With it reconnecting to the server during the update, and telling the user whats going on. Anyone who was cheating before the map change, is given plenty of warning to disconnect before they get banned.



We're all used to servers taking ages at times to change the map, why not just hide the update in there and give them no warning. :)

[MrFelix]

yous guys need to turn those frowns upside down; though i guess this discussion illustrates how much we all hate cheaters, so.. maybe.. we should stop bitching at each other n start bitching at the cheaters; while that is a pretty obvious statement, i don't see why everyone's getting so uppity because either way, there'll be anti-cheat solutions that work for some cheats and not others, and that'll always be the case, simply through the fight for survival, and until every single file relating to a game is stuck with a nice md5 hash and leet 10MB ecliptic curve encryption keys to send data between serv and client.



Diversity never really hurt anyone, so that kinda suggests (to me at least)that its just a personal choice between the various utilities. survival of the fittest style, applies to the cheats themselves and to the solutions; so surely its best not to bitch?



This is almost pseudoanalogous (ambivalence pwns) to our present world state; if we took all these trillions of dollars we spend on defense and instead spent it on clothing and feeding everyone, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded; the world might just be a better place. bill hicks we love you, and I wonder what you'd have to say about krad cheats.



yay, i made a long comment, i feel so special. please dont hurt me.