New VAC Tech

[Wwv]

LeRaldo wrote..

OMG Valve is complete ownage. This step towards preventing wallhacks is awsome, and in the small amount of time they have achieved this, I believe soon cheats will be completely gone from Counter-Strike

laffin, never saw such sweet sarcasm :)

Added @ [time="1028119114"]

My serious opinion on the new thing:

I agree that seeing through walls is an advantage even when you don't see the person, there's often only one or two places enemies are likely to be, if you looked at the CPL matches you see that the players regularly shoot at those places through walls/doors.



Secondly, I think the possibility of a ban and therefore their key being rendered useless was a good deterrent, if you just attempt to disable a wallhack they are free to try all cheats until it works (I see people asking where to get a new key daily).



Third, what about the flash-bang and smoke disabling thing, if you don't ban the cheaters you might as well take out those items.

[sportsmaniac87]

This is a good step to preventing cheating which will be hard for programming cheaters 2 get pass it, but what will really help this new cheat prevention method is the global ban list, which will ban there WON id and at the same time prevent cheating from happen for those who get past the hlgurad authentication. Took VALVe some time but they getting the job done. All the cheaters say is that VALVe is going bankrupt, thatz a stupid thing 2 say.

[Lento]

garrynewman wrote..

in my honest opinion i think the banning system will somehow be seriously flawed.. like when windowsxp came out but MS decided to make a corp key that completely defied the point of having an online auth system..



like starting a hacked server or something and sendin your 'friends' wonid to valve.. theyre banned forever..

Firstly they are only banned from all secure servers, so if you get caught even by mistake you'll be able to play with other cheaters. Not exactly fun though.



I'm not sure how valve have planned this, maybe they tempban you for a week the first time it happens. I guess a system like SETI would be necessary, once a server detects you cheating it will tell your client to connect in the background to one of valves validation servers that will check your client again before banning you. If you try to block access to valve's validation server locally you'll get kicked and won't be able to play anyway.



I can hear people saying this will be hacked too. Not likely unless you somehow infect the client with a real cheat. I hope there will be a whole lot of work to hack a server to make it actually ban people that aren't cheating.



These are just some of my random thoughts, I could go on like forever talking about how to make a good anti-cheat, but I'll leave it to the guys at valve, at I guess they get paid for it at least. 8)

[MarshaLL`]

GonePostal wrote..

The only problem I can see with this is possibly compromising people without hacks. If HL takes about a half a second not to render the players behind walls, than logically wouldn't it take half a second to render the player when he becomes visible again? My reaction time is far less than .5 seconds. This makes players blind for about .5 seconds and at 100FPS that's 50 frames lost of movement.

yeah thats what I sorta meant in my post ... if the guy is partly visiable or just round the corner and you DON'T have hacks then can you still see his foot/gun etc... or does he have to come into full line of sight for him to appear ??

[Eagle25]

leggeh wrote..

OMG! people complain theres no anti cheat, valve add one, ppl complain its not updated enuf, valve start updating it more. People complain it doesnt block the opengl wallhack, valve block it. People complain it doesnt have a hlguard style wallhack blocker, valve add it. Now people are STILL complaining. Out of all interest what do valve have to do to get you to shut up? wake you up with breakfast in bed?



sheesh.

there is not much they can do, there are too much fools out there that dont realise that valve has no obligation to do this.Hell they didnt even have to support cs in the 1st place, and so many people fail to realise that.....



i suppose when they ditch it and moove on to other projects then evreyone will realise.....

[Re-call]

I wonder if VAC will adapt hlguard's new idea of sound hack blocking

(expect it next version, there was talk of it on their forums and they said they were putting the finish on it)



I expect it will only limit it, its pretty much impossible to completly block, you can only stop the packets where its inaudiable, you stll have to send the normal sound packets

[JdeFalconr]

So why doesn't Valve work with the HL-Guard team? Because there's no money in it, or because they don't want to officially support HL-Guard, or what? It would seem that some cooperation from these two groups who both seem to have some great ideas would be beneficial to us all.

[mouth]

I, for one, don't really give a shit which direction Valve goes with VAC as long as the false-positives are kept to an absolute ZERO. Seems to me that preventing the cheats from working at all is the best way to avoid big trouble instead of "dicking with cheaters". With the amount of "OMFGWTFchetar!" that goes on still, getting a nice big "OMGWTFchetar!" from the server itself (spammed to everyone there, no less) due to some semi-obscure VAC fuckup is the last thing anyone needs. Legitimate players are not eggs and this is not a breakfast item.

street wrote..

Actually asspiper, I reckon Narboid is talking about the fact that valve is supporting a four year old product and you should be thankful for that.... maybe? Hmm?

Which product would that be? HL? OpFor? CS Retail? Blue Shift? HL GOTY? HL Platinum? Or is it some other blatant repackaging that i'm forgetting? Don't even pretend that the first release of HL is the only thing they've made money from. VAC is very welcome as far as i'm concerned, but i don't think i'll be massaging their collective prostate with my tongue for it.



Valve going out-of-pocket to vigilantly update a long dead game = Reason for being thankful.



Valve finally doing something about cheating to protect their lifeline in light of the fact that they have NOTHING else to show for = Not.

zimzap wrote..

*sigh*some people...



1. HL Guard has been doing this as you should know and Valve is pretty much just copying it

A) Good.

b) So?

[wtaag]

zimzap wrote..

1. HL Guard has been doing this as you should know and Valve is pretty much just copying it



4. The "wall" just blocks the model out but doesn't remove the information of the model being there no matter how far away. Thats why the model outlines are possible.

We have no problem using this method. In fact... we are pleased that they are doing this. Maybe they can iron out a cleaner copy. Also... we want everyone to use the WH Block so that they are protected... We all know where it started so Its not like they are stealing it from us. Hell... Some HLGuard team members and myself are helping VALVe in this venture.



About the block itself... your not exactly right...

[die_scum]

this new anti-cheat is a limiting measure that will be broken like all of valves previous measures.



ogc 10 is out soon with new features and totally rewritten code that will be a lot harder to and that will take longer to break.



if u block wallhacks. the coders will focus more on more ingenius aimbots or ways to counteract the measures implemented by valve anti-wallhacking.



basically valve has used its power to make other forms of anti-cheat like HLGuard useless. Now they copy old ideas used by others.



also, do u really trust valve. the people who said cheats would be a thing of the past in version 1, then it was in 1.1, then 1.2.....the people who said aimbots were fixed in version 1.0. dont be so forgetful and ignorant



the people who u think are great because they managed to bring out one VAC update within a day of one hack coming out. where is the latest update? opengl hack 2.5 has worked for how long now? a week?



proclaiming any victory (again) is a stupid exercise. your only trying to hide the truth and make yourselves feel better



cmon kiddies. use your brains. the fact of the matter is valve is trying to protect 5 yr old code that is flawed and has been picked to pieces by hundreds of coders for almost as long.



Valve knows, and u should also realise by now, that any VAC update can and will be bypassed. just like all the previous updates and anti cheat tools.

[SinaC]

Gpig20 wrote..

Sinac, the bodies only sink if you set your body lasting time low.

i kno



IM NUMER 100!! *sings & dances*

[wtaag]

die_scum wrote..

this new anti-cheat is a limiting measure that will be broken like all of valves previous measures.



ogc 10 is out soon with new features and totally rewritten code that will be a lot harder to and that will take longer to break.



if u block wallhacks. the coders will focus more on more ingenius aimbots or ways to counteract the measures implemented by valve anti-wallhacking.



basically valve has used its power to make other forms of anti-cheat like HLGuard useless. Now they copy old ideas used by others.



also, do u really trust valve. the people who said cheats would be a thing of the past in version 1, then it was in 1.1, then 1.2.....the people who said aimbots were fixed in version 1.0. dont be so forgetful and ignorant



the people who u think are great because they managed to bring out one VAC update within a day of one hack coming out. where is the latest update? opengl hack 2.5 has worked for how long now? a week?



proclaiming any victory (again) is a stupid exercise. your only trying to hide the truth and make yourselves feel better



cmon kiddies. use your brains. the fact of the matter is valve is trying to protect 5 yr old code that is flawed and has been picked to pieces by hundreds of coders for almost as long.



Valve knows, and u should also realise by now, that any VAC update can and will be bypassed. just like all the previous updates and anti cheat tools.

What part of "HLGuard team is helping VALVe in any way they can" don't you understand? And if it was possible to break our wallhack block... Dont you think it would have been done by now? The block has been around since Feb.

[garry]

die_scum wrote..

Valve knows, and u should also realise by now, that any VAC update can and will be bypassed. just like all the previous updates and anti cheat tools.

yes, we all know that.. but the idea behind VAC is to BAN the people making and using cheats. If they cant test their cheats.. they will probably give up pretty fast.



the idea isnt to invent something that will make cheats impossible, the idea is to block existing working mass cheats. This, judging from the crys of newbies on myg0t and ogc forums, is working.



Every time a cheater creates a new cheat, a patch will be released. OK, maybe not the same day. Thats impossible, but it will happen eventually, and thats one cheat gone.. that WOULD have been used forever if it wasnt for valve



At least they are doing something.

[SinaC]

GonePostal wrote..

They are all clues that give away your position if the wallhacker can see them. Well, if there are 3 people left on a map, and you kill the wallhacker's teammate, if he can see bulletsparks in a room, then he knows you're there. He could see a grenade thrown and explode from you, he could see your position because the hostages are following you, he could see you drop your gun. Get it?

Yea, but does it show wallspark's and stuff? And gun droppings? Sound works just as well, googoggo sound!

[synthetic]

street wrote..

Actually asspiper, I reckon Narboid is talking about the fact that valve is supporting a four year old product and you should be thankful for that.... maybe? Hmm?

Probably because it's their ONLY true product? Also... probably because it still sells a decent number of copies? Moron.