mailbag: cs = 3

[CabalSoljea]

Edited by [user="17803"] @ [time="1024809967"]

oh well.. just hope that cs2 doesnt need a max up comp.... probably JUST improve the graphics, blah blah a little and use the improved engine to enhance gameplay....



CS LIVE FOREVAH!!!!



________________________

"Why isnt GonePostal gone?"

[GonePostal]

rizzuh wrote..

I'm glad that you seem to agree that long range shots are arbitrary. I've believed this for a while now and have purposed that headshots be removed at a certain distance, in lieu of changing the entire aiming system. It probably won't happen because most CS players simply don't agree with the change in theory. They thinking aiming for a headshot at a long distance is possible. Most skill movies I watch have the guy aiming for the chest and riding the rocoil to the head, but whatever people want to think.

Gee, didn't I post a link to a demo I made in 10 minutes which disproves your theory that it's "impossible" to aim at a person's head a long range like a month or 2 ago? But who cares? rizzuh is god. *gag*



http://freespaceforme.homestead.com/files/head5.zip



It doesn't work anymore for me, maybe you have to convert it or something because it's old.

[mouth]

JdeFalconr wrote..

Yes, as Nighthawk posted earlier, which you may have missed, the variable "cl_dynamiccrosshair 0/1" turns the dynamic crosshair off and on, respectively.

I was under the assumption that cl_dynamiccrosshair only controlled whether the crosshair expanded when moving. I'm talking about the expanding that happens when you fire. I keep dynamiccrosshair at 1 to compensate for that.

It's supposed to be difficult to hit someone with an AK shot, for instance, at extremely long range, even if you wait for the recoil to die down, much less when bursting or going full-auto.

This is exactly what i find to be senseless. When i'm trying to fire 2-3 shot bursts to hit a long-range moving target, i already know that recoil is going to come into play if my bursts are longer. I don't need an expanding crosshair to tell me something that's already obvious by making it even harder to find the center of it.

Yes we have the benefit of a high-precision pointing device that a real-life person holding a rifle doesn't have, but either way it's not supposed to be easy to make a long-range shot.

It never was. With b5, your crosshair would track up and follow the recoil, which made sense. So, long-range shots were never a total cakewalk.

Just a few degrees in any direction, at long range, will throw your shot off completely!

Exactly.

[rizzuh]

It seems more trivial than anything else to complain about that. The weapons have such random accuracy that knowing he exact center is practically worthless.

[mouth]

It's not so much trivial as it is a lower priority to fix. It causes pointless confusion and would need to be taken care of even if bulletspreads weren't a joke.

[099513]

As far as I can tell CS is a game of percentages. Remember you are playing a game based on a set of variables. The cone shooting is one such example.

The weapons have such random accuracy that knowing he exact center is practically worthless.



so the statement:

When i'm trying to fire 2-3 shot bursts to hit a long-range moving target, i already know that recoil is going to come into play if my bursts are longer. I don't need an expanding crosshair to tell me something that's already obvious by making it even harder to find the center of it.



is defunct. Your shots will be randomly assigned within the cone, so your search for the centre has no bearing on the effectiveness of increasing your accuracy. Although this was adequately explained in rze's comment I'm just summing up this area nicely (I hope).

[rizzuh]

Edited by [user="2065"] @ [time="1024812488"]

GonePostal, it is still a CS 1.3 demo that I'm not going to download x_r.mdl files for. Plus, a lot of the people who dislike 1.4 claim that it changed the weapons.



I will once again say that it is basically impossible or the best players in the world would do it.



It is literally impossible if you have any sort of outside variables affecting your aim, like movement. Because it is a cone, the farther you are away from someone the bigger the base area of the cone (assuming the base starts where the enemy is). Because it's psuedo-random, you cannot consistently get headshots or cheats would do it. Cheats operate far better close up because the cone's base area is minimized.



Obviously the cone's radius/base area increases "forever" or it really wouldn't be a cone.



When I say get headshots, I don't mean "land" them due to the randgen giving you a good value, I mean "at will."

[GonePostal]

Edited by [user="2345"] @ [time="1024814284"]

You can certainly read, especially since I never said Minh and cliffe don't play CS anymore. What I did say is that if they have lost interest in CS, they should admit it. If Minh is working on CS2, that means he is not playing CS much thus he probably isn't very competent to make certain changes. I don't know many of cliffe's opinions. If he thinks like you do, that aimed headshots are impossible at long range because he can't make them, he isn't competent either. Just because you lack the simple skill to point and click at a head 70 feet away means that the game should be changed so no one can.



I can tell you don't care about any opinion that disagrees with yours, that's for sure. You are still convinced the earth is flat because you don't care about any opinion that disagrees. You have no reason to dislike me except yourself. I have never flamed you or anyone here without them flaming me first. I'm just telling you what I see, no need to get personal.



According to your polls, more people prefer 1.3 gameplay to 1.4/1.5. The only reason it's not going to change is because certain people don't care enough to change it. It's like owell we fucked up, but we're too lazy to change it back. Just wait for another year or more. If they aren't going to change the game anymore until CS2, why change it in the 1st place? More people were happy with it just the way they paid for it.



Just go back into the archives and you'll find more than enough arguments to fill this page. But it doesn't matter because rizzuh is god and the earth is still flat. No need to waste my time. I'll just not care. Oh, and where did I mention anywhere in my above posts about jumping? You carry on the same steriotypical opinion which isn't mine. I offered arguments how the current jumping system is good because it stops bunnyhopping, but yet it's too restrictive for gameplay in things like rushing. I also offered a compromise where jumping would be restricted after a jump, not movement, and jumping would not be penalized when the jump was landed with a crouch, but movement would be.



I don't want to kiss ass, and I don't want my ass kissed. This is how we differ.



Are you suggesting removing headshots at long range period or during certain variables? I do not agree with completely removing them at long range because there is skill in eliminating outside variables that affect your aim so you have the clean shot. I do agree that headshots made by pure luck at long range under outside variables could be reduced. A small luck factor is natural.

[rizzuh]

I stopped caring about debating this with you. I think my arguments are better than yours, so I'll just leave the page at that. For example, I explain how the aiming system works with the cone system and you shoot back, with clear wit, that I must lack simple skill.



If it makes you feel any better, your stupid jumping idea will never even be considered.



Please give me the strength to never, ever reply to him again.

[GonePostal]

Edited by [user="2345"] @ [time="1024816999"]

Exaggeration but it works.

[Glock Rush]

heh... go rizzuh u tell em! :P CS turning 3... well thats something i never thought would happen... didnt think it would survive this long... but it has... go CS!... just questioning tho... how much longer does CS have? i mean they will bring out new versions n stuff... i know that... but they gonna have to offer us more each time... new maps... new weapons... coz eventually we will get bored... like when i first played CS it was like old as... and it was when i was a noob at anything coz i just got a computer that actually had a CD drive... lol... CS was good... fantastic even... but it was lacking some things... lastability of the original CS was poor at best... but thru the later versions it got better... then i gave up at version 1.1... i just forgot about CS... then at a LAN party... everyone wanted to play CS... and i was hooked once again! enuff about my gaming history... lets look at how long CS has left at the top...



Pros:

Great Gameplay

Smooth running even on some old pcs

Substantial textures and special effex

Easy to set up

Dont need an absolute all out Optic Fibre connection to play over net



Cons:

Can have some major vid card compatability problems

Some Version bugs (should be ok if u get the latest ones tho)

Tho it can run on that old pc in the closet, performance aint great

Slowly dying



these are just some obvious things i can see... but when u think about it, CS still has some time to come at the top... and with luck it will reach its 4th year in succession of number 1... now ill stop wasting precious room on this article board for some of u other would be posters... just thought i should say that...



Hope CS keeps it up... good job once again CS NATION team...



GLOCK ON!!!

[doctorSSR]

Edited by [user="15216"] @ [time="1024817803"]

GonePostal, rizzuh. come on guys, stop fighting. let's get along.



PS: if you absolutely must not speak to GonePostal again, then do it. Other than that, let's all get along.



------------------------

um.....GonePostal, wut are you trying to prove?

[099513]

Edited by [user="27326"] @ [time="1024819523"]

I however have plenty of time on my hands :)



It's like owell we fucked up, but we're too lazy to change it back. Just wait for another year or more.



Ignorance factor initiated.



I don't want to kiss ass, and I don't want my ass kissed. This is how we differ.



Arrogance factor rising.



I also offered a compromise where jumping would be restricted after a jump, not movement, and jumping would not be penalized when the jump was landed with a crouch, but movement would be.



Take a moment to think. Only cockroaches move without first consulting their brains.



there is skill in eliminating outside variables that affect your aim so you have the clean shot. I do agree that headshots made by pure luck at long range under outside variables could be reduced. A small luck factor is natural.



This is so speculative, it's such a waste of thought... think about it GoneP... oh forget it. You haven't bothered to understand anything Rze, and that diagram is pointless. We are discussing long range hs and you draw a huge target that could be at best 10 metres away (30 ft fool).



doc this is life Rze does not have to get on with Gonepost and Gonepoastal may chose to remain with his little paradigm. I suppose this is the end of this thread... what's next?

[cheetarah654]

i think that is an example of "leeched third party" and if i ever find out hhow long you spent on that and why you felt compelled to....yeah ok/

[Spoonman]

Edited by [user="21273"] @ [time="1024819798"]

rizzuh wrote..

It seems more trivial than anything else to complain about that. The weapons have such random accuracy that knowing he exact center is practically worthless.

From the SummerBlue CS Report:

The consequence of this behaviour is that all weapons, after their first few accurate shots, are like shotguns; they uniformly cover the area centered on the crosshair with bullets. This means that whether or not the player aims accurately at a target, bullets will still hit that target, because the target is still inside the large bullet cloud area, the area over which bullets randomly hit.



Note that randomness implies uniformity. If thirty shots are fired, and each shot is randomly offset from the crosshair, then each point around the crosshair has an equal chance of being hit - so the end result, after firing all thirty rounds, is a nice even uniform covering of bullets.



In Counter-Strike, every point in the area in front of the weapon has an equal chance of being hit by each bullet. Realistically, there is no chance of this occuring whatsoever; what would happen is that the small part of wall near where the current bullet fell will recieve the next bullet - the rest of the wall simply cannot be hit because there is not time to move the barrel of the weapon that far.

So crosshairs really tell nothing to where the actual bullets are going after the first couple of shots. They basically just tell you what direction you pointing the cloud of bullets at. And if you watched that video of the Colt going full auto there were bullets that hit inside AND outside of the expanded crosshair. Then if you watch the AK going full auto and scoring a headshot; the crosshair isn't even pointed at the person. (Almost pointed at the ground and to the left of the person.)



I would like to see this fixed, but I have to disagree with you riz on the long-range headshots being removed. If they did fix this randomness and made it more like real life then it would still be possible to get headshots at long range... The Summerblue report says

"A real automatic weapon, when firing, produces a stream of bullets, so that each bullet fired impacts at a point fairly close to the point where the previous bullet fell."

So people who actually, accurately aimed for the head at long range should score a headshot. However those who went full auto at long range would have almost no chance of scoring a headshot.



There are my 2 cents on the subject.