CS1.5 non-changes

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Lol, diarrhea to all bunny hoppers... that's great, lol. :)

Jessica wrote...

Oh who cares about jumping and running, they should add female models! Just had to slip that in there.

I see tons of "female models" in CS! The only problem is, they are sprayed on walls, and most don't tend to be wearing much of anything, hehe. :) Stupid newly pubescent boys, lol.



Now, onto another topic mentioned, though I'll only leave passing comments about the jumping... I voted that I prefered 1.3 jumping, which I did, but I'm perfectly fine with 1.4 jumping, and am not going to whine about it or anything. Change is good. (Okay, one more jumping comment... would you like it better, if just like in real life, every 200th jump or so, you fell flat on your face? :) Hehehe... that'd be funny, though I'd never want it added, heh.)



On the subject of accuracy and such. As far as hitboxes goes, with my rather extensive testing of them (okay, so I have nothing better to do, lol), they have so far proven to be very, very close to correct in all the tests I have done (various weapons, close/far range, standing, crouching, jumping, running...). The shorter models seem to have a little space above their head that still registers a hit, and the l33t krew guy seems to not have the very top of his head covered, but that makes sense, as if they changed hitboxes for each model, people would all just play with the smallest model.



The comment claiming the deagle was a newbie gun made me laugh. Hard. It only has 7 rounds in it, and generally, you're gonna need 4 of those to hit for a kill, discounting headshots. If people are going to claim that newbies can shoot with enough accuracy to land 4 out of 7 shots in place, instead of more likely using a gun like the M4 which will allow for their unrefined aim... what is there to say? The deagle is very powerful, but it's riddiculous to claim that it's a newbie gun. I know that when I was a newbie, I couldn't use the deagle for crap. Heck, I had a hard time killing with anything less than an MP5 when I was new. The deagle was a gun that took me many hours of practice and a new sense of patience for lining up good shots to master.



Personally, when I play, I don't experience this "getting headshot by a newbie constantly" thing a few of you claim to experience. No... the newbies I play against usually die under a hail of bullets before they have a chance to fire back. Is it perhaps that you're not playing against such newbies afterall? Maybe they really are aiming intentinally for your head, or know where to aim such that recoil will bring up their shots to head level quickly.



The only increase in headshots I've seen with 1.4 is an increase in the headshots that I'm actually aiming for carefully. Oh, and since they fixed the hit decal bug of the aug/sg552 while zoomed, I get more headshots, as I'm actually aiming in the right place now.



Hmm... I wonder if I'll finally install 1.4 over 1.3 when 1.5 comes out... still just using the steam beta of 1.4, lol, over a 56k no less. But hey, it works. :)

[rizzuh]

Edited by [user="2065"] @ [time="1023254797"]

GonePostal wrote..



I'm sorry, you implied it.

rizzuh wrote..

Opinions may change as some players choose to adapt and others outright leave. We'll see.





zimzap wrote..

Notice how rizzuh is going to wait a month so all the people who hate the patch leave and dont vote. Pfft just gay



(and then I said)

While that's not my intent, what is the problem with that?

I wasn't implying anything, I wasn't predicting anything. I was building up drama so people would come back and vote.



The reason there is no problem with my statement, I am repeating, is because the people who vote will represent the community (that visits this site). If you don't play CS, you're less likely to visit CS-Nation. A CS poll should represent CS players and not RTCW players.



I do not have a slant on this as much as you'd like to find one. I couldn't care less if a billion people or five people like CS 1.4's jumping, I do. A poll doesn't make anyone less right or wrong.



If I was so into this I would have rigged the poll, anyway. Then again, I'm not the evil, biased, jackass that you'd make me out to be.

[Gpig]

What I would like for teamwork would be if the bomb is planted and it isn't defused all the CT's blow up :). I see far too much raping now where the teams stay raping for rounds on end on every map. I don't really know what can be done to stop it. I hate aztec when the raping team decides, "Hey, how about 6 our of the 7 of us decide to awp and the remaining one be afk!". I mean I have seen 4 awpers and unless you take them all out 3 rounds in a row they will have money to buy more awps every round. Siege of course, isn't fixable just because it seems so much easier for T's to hold down the garage then any other map in CS. Unless of course there is a cs_pit map where all the CT's spawn in a pit with no buy zone and all the T's see nades sitting around the edge. Sorry, I become even less coherent at 1:35. Damn you Conan! Damn you!

[-:Nighthawk:-]

And, as if my post wasn't long enough already, I see GonePostal has put forth his thoughts for public criticism, again.

What I don't hear is what you don't like about 1.4. The CS team cannot improve CS if they don't know what is wrong.

You don't think we tell the CS team what we think is wrong? I guess you're not very aware. Here's a few suggestions we've had for quite some time that haven't been considered whining:



1. Flash-Bang. Not Flash-poof *fizzle*. First off, make them always work in the first place. Second, some sort of audio distortion and/or volume reduction for a time.



2. Walls that stop explosions. Perhaps it's not possible with the Half-Life engine, but if so, many of us haven't been informed yet. It would definitely be nice to see grenade power increased, but have walls block their damage mostly or entirely. I realize that due to how the engine works, this would probably mean that wooden boxes stopped grenade damage just as effectively as concrete walls, but it'd be worth it.



3. Various bugs, such as loss of audio and menu glitches when alt-tab or windows key is pressed. Also, loss of radar bug.



4. More realistic recoil. This one is not as commonly requested, but it would be nice if bullets fired from an automatic rifle followed a nice line path upward-ish due to recoil like a real gun, instead of just having a random dispersion pattern.



This just names a few things requested. We all used to say that better anti-cheat technology was needed. Well, it took quite a while, and it's still not done, but they're responding. Who knows, maybe we'll eventually get flash-bangs too, maybe not. Don't think that you're somehow the savior of CS by offering your thoughts. We suggest improvements to the game too. However, jumping was the way you want it back for all this time, and they've chosen to change it. It's not a long-standing problem in the game, no, instead it's a decided upon feature. Personally, I'm fine with it either way. However, they've chosen to make it the way it is, and that's fine by me.



Probably the biggest difference between those of us who offer constructive suggestions, and those of you who whine, is that most of us don't try to turn every discussion into an argument about our suggested change.

[rizzuh]

Nice points Nighthawk. If they could fix the flashes, they could use the exact same code for he grenades. It's all about proper detection of brushes.

[Nindoz]

I always thought bullet traces would have been a nice touch :)

[GonePostal]

Edited by [user="2065"] @ [time="1023265254"]

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

snip

This is the very 1st time I have ever heard this stuff from you. So don't act like I can read you mind dip shit, because I can't, and neither can anyone else but you. This just proves the problem, people are too concerned with ass kissing that they don't communicate what could make CS better.



Now, if you want to debate why certain changes in 1.4 are better without the ass kissing bias rizzuh has, I'm all ears.



I agree eliminating bunnyhopping is good for CS although I never had a problem with it, the current system is too restrictive in other ways. Any time you jump, whether you are trying to rush, climb, clear, almost anything, you will be slowed down %50. I thought the goal was to get rid of bunnyhopping, not practically eliminate jumping. You might as well unbind the jump key completely. Jumping does have some skill to it. If you are rushing, chances are you can make a straighter line by jumping over obstacles, rather than running around them. This, is why jumping can be useful and the military has an obstacle course. But when there is a penalty for jumping, you can no longer utilize jumping because it is too restrictive. The course of a map becomes predictable and less dynamic because there are only so many ways you can rush and not be penalized. There are other ways to eliminate bunnyhopping and don't restrict jumping or so much (e.g. lower accuracies while jumping so much that the chance of a random headshot is like 1 in a million, restrict jumping instead of movement like reduce height of jump by X amount after Y amount of jumps, stun the ability to jump after being hit like the ability to run) are just a few. I'm sure there are better ideas out there.



Lowering the walk speed does nothing to help the gameplay of CS. When you lower the walk speed, you are hindering the attacking team's ability to infilitrate quietly and quickly. What you are doing is giving the defending team an even greater advantage. When you move slower, you are exposed longer. The longer you are exposed, the more chance the defending team has to spot you. Once you are spotted, the game comes down to skill and position. The defending team obviously will have a better position than the attacking team and the attacking team will have to make up for that in skill. But exactly how much more skill do they need to make up for this disadvantage? The round could be decided by position so much that even though you have a skill of 4 on a scale of 1 to 10, your position allows you to defeat a skill of 8. Stealth is what equals this out. If the enemy doesn't know where you are, they have less advantage and the game is more decided upon skill. When you hinder the ability to use stealth, it makes the game more decided upon position. This is obviously not good.



All I have to say about accuracy is that the less accurate things are, and the more random they are, the less skill is involved, and the more luck it is.



Go ahead. This is your chance to have a debate besides some flamefest.

[hit?]

this debate will never end...

[GonePostal]

blood and honor wrote..

this debate will never end...

It would help if you communicated your opinions on it instead of whining about it.

[Shadows]

I like the CS 1.4 jumping style since it keeps the bunny jumpers away. I hated myself for having to do bunny jumping in CS1.3 in order to win.



I now use a walk toggle to be silent and sneak up on the campers, due to the little lag even with cable/ADSL the attacker still have an advantage in a 1 on 1 situation and can see the static camper before he can see you. Ok so we are talking maybe less than a second but its all you need.



What I really would like to see is perhaps some new maps that fits better in with the CS1.4 jumping. Italy is being upgraded to a 2nd version and perhaps others aswell. Now in deep fear of being shot by all members of the CS community could I kindly ask for de_dust to be removed or changed? Why? because its overplayed and the CT's wins by default, unless newbees or aimbots are around.



On the new maps front I really love the 2 new maps in 1.4 and the 3 new maps in CS1.3 was great too, but noone plays them now talking with fellow clan members its because they LAG alot on the maps It's something I have not noticed on my XP2000+ GeF4 Ti PC, but some players still uses PIII 500 with voodoo 3 cards or less for playing CS, so could the mappers please remember this! Guess the focus should be on even gameplay rather than fancy graphics!

[hit?]

hey gonepostal, what u'd want me 2 do? start a campaign to restore the jumping in 1.3?



Some people simply cant adjust and adapt, makes me wonder if THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION is true on everyone. Especially on that gonepostal moron.

[GonePostal]

Shadows wrote..

I like the CS 1.4 jumping style since it keeps the bunny jumpers away. I hated myself for having to do bunny jumping in CS1.3 in order to win.



I now use a walk toggle to be silent and sneak up on the campers, due to the little lag even with cable/ADSL the attacker still have an advantage in a 1 on 1 situation and can see the static camper before he can see you. Ok so we are talking maybe less than a second but its all you need.



What I really would like to see is perhaps some new maps that fits better in with the CS1.4 jumping. Italy is being upgraded to a 2nd version and perhaps others aswell. Now in deep fear of being shot by all members of the CS community could I kindly ask for de_dust to be removed or changed? Why? because its overplayed and the CT's wins by default, unless newbees or aimbots are around.



On the new maps front I really love the 2 new maps in 1.4 and the 3 new maps in CS1.3 was great too, but noone plays them now talking with fellow clan members its because they LAG alot on the maps It's something I have not noticed on my XP2000+ GeF4 Ti PC, but some players still uses PIII 500 with voodoo 3 cards or less for playing CS, so could the mappers please remember this! Guess the focus should be on even gameplay rather than fancy graphics!

Like I said before, a different jumping system could do the same thing 1.4 does now, plus it would be less restrictive in other areas of the game. Please read my posts more carefully.



You could use the walk toggle in 1.3 and have a greater advantage on the defending than now. The attacker could have a very high ping and the defender could have a very low ping, it goes both ways, but if they are the same like on LAN, you cannot blame it on ping. Please read my posts more carefully.



The CS team would be going through more trouble than it's worth updating all these maps to fit a new gameplay rather than tweaking the gameplay to the existing maps. We all know how lazy the CS team is, they didn't even want to include narby's new map.



What I have seen here is more of what you like in CS than why you like it and why it's better than other suggestions. The opposite of this debate.

Added @ [time="1023263471"]

blood and honor wrote..

hey gonepostal, what u'd want me 2 do? start a campaign to restore the jumping in 1.3?



Some people simply cant adjust and adapt, makes me wonder if THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION is true on everyone. Especially on that gonepostal moron.

Clearly this person has no way of communicating his opinions other than flaming me. What I asked you to do is to communicate your ideas without flaming on this debate. Is that too hard for you to do? Some people simply can't follow simple concepts. Makes me wonder how you can breathe.

[Shadows]

GonePostal, perhaps you should read my post more careful, before replying in 2 sec flat :))))))



but let me try again....



As I said I like the current system. but if it would please you a jumping style like FLF (Front Line Forces) would be OK since it allows you CS1.3 jumping once and then slows down if done again within seconds.



Maps: Guess with the single player comming out with lots of new maps they simply dont care, so perhaps you got a valid point.



My previous post was a little about how my gameplay had changed from 1.3 to 1.4 and what I would like to see in the future, nothing more/less.



Finaly you are NOT an Admin here, so stop acting like one please People are a allowed to post here without reading all your scripples first.

[narby]

Edited by [user="3134"] @ [time="1023265634"]

Gun recoil follows an `up and to the right' pattern of movement due to the spiral nature of the barrel affecting the trajectory of the bullet.



On a completly off-topic note:



"Japanese people really enjoy reading documentation, but that's because Japanese documentation is actually fun to look at," explained Mike Adams of translation and marketing firm Arial Global Reach.



Adams said that Japanese manuals are often jazzed up with creative cartoons. Even program interfaces are festive: Microsoft's much-maligned Clippy the Paperclip is replaced in Japan by an animated dolphin that Adams swears is a hoot to work with.



(wirednews.com tho)



Sorry, i found that amusing :x

[rizzuh]

Without flaming, what a concept.



You're such a hypocrite, GonePostal. All you do is flame me for my opinions and you 'ask' other people for their opinions.



By the way, this change was done not only to eliminate bunnyhopping (read: repeating jumping), but to eliminate all jumping as a viable option entirely (unless you're clear, have cover, have a good team, etc). The one good point against this would be the maps not being updated.



The rest are worthless, now. It's been over a month. With CS 1.5, it'll be until September or so. That's 5 months. Five months from now any sort of reversion would bring up flames and discussions much like this one.



Now I'm all for organized and logical debate, but you've been saying the same thing now for 40 days. Here, the CS.net forums, and wherever else you express yourself. You are wasting your time, in all honesty. Valve isn't going to reverse itself and even if it were to, that's 3 months from now. At least.