That sucks im glad im a retarded cubicle drone that can afford my own connection that doesnt have a the berlin/great wall of china firewall. Remember kids don't go to school so you to won't have to deal with nazi firewalls.
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i dont download bots because i dont like downloading excess programs but if the bots are gonna be distributed with the CS exe then yayComment
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Cormega wrote..
I'd have to disagree with you here. Everything you do in-game can pretty much be replicated by a bot, given advanced enough code. Even acts of stupidity can be coded into AI. The problem is simply that coding realistic bots would be incredibly difficult and would consume a ton of processing power. AI programming is a constantly developing field, and there's been a lot of breakthroughs in terms of replicating human behavior.
I don't care how good the AI is, a bot can never truly act like a human.
That doesn't mean that a bot will ever "want" to play CS or whatever, but in terms of how we control the interface, interpret our surroundings, reaction times and being overwhelmed... a bot could be programmed to replicate all of these things, and could play in a manner indistinguishable from a human.
However, I doubt we'll see bots like that for at least another 5-10 years.cheetarah654 wrote..
Yes... my old college started acting like that. My first year, it was awesome, seemingly unlimited bandwidth, where I had many days where I had used 20+ gigabytes in a day. Gaming was sweet, almost never connecting to a server with higher than a 30 ping.
yes but this is a firewall the college put up that blocks all types of information like that, no downloading through p2p preograms, no games online, no irc...its not just like a DSL firewall, this is intentionally blocked. ive tried steam, no go.
The next year, they added a bunch of crap. The firewall blocked most interesting programs (like remote desktop and such), and then packet-prioritization software was added on top. End result was that, while games and P2P weren't completely blocked, they together shared the bottom priority spot, to the point where I can honestly say my 56k modem gives me a MUCH better gaming experience than the college network did. Steam worked, theoretically, but it got such lousy speeds that it was pointless. So essentially we just set up a few LAN servers and played each other.
In situations like that... bots would be nice, but if your college is blocking Steam, even, that defeats the whole purpose for that setting. Damn college bandwidth nazis.
Anyway, I'll be interested to see what VALVe has come up with, though I honestly don't expect a whole lot beyond POD-Bot quality, at this point. Time will tell...Comment
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-:Nighthawk:- wrote..
Holy Jeezus i would like to make a comment here on how you have no life but you are moderator and i foresee that that is a bad thing. =D
I'd have to disagree with you here. Everything you do in-game can pretty much be replicated by a bot, given advanced enough code. Even acts of stupidity can be coded into AI. The problem is simply that coding realistic bots would be incredibly difficult and would consume a ton of processing power. AI programming is a constantly developing field, and there's been a lot of breakthroughs in terms of replicating human behavior.
That doesn't mean that a bot will ever "want" to play CS or whatever, but in terms of how we control the interface, interpret our surroundings, reaction times and being overwhelmed... a bot could be programmed to replicate all of these things, and could play in a manner indistinguishable from a human.
However, I doubt we'll see bots like that for at least another 5-10 years.
Yes... my old college started acting like that. My first year, it was awesome, seemingly unlimited bandwidth, where I had many days where I had used 20+ gigabytes in a day. Gaming was sweet, almost never connecting to a server with higher than a 30 ping.
The next year, they added a bunch of crap. The firewall blocked most interesting programs (like remote desktop and such), and then packet-prioritization software was added on top. End result was that, while games and P2P weren't completely blocked, they together shared the bottom priority spot, to the point where I can honestly say my 56k modem gives me a MUCH better gaming experience than the college network did. Steam worked, theoretically, but it got such lousy speeds that it was pointless. So essentially we just set up a few LAN servers and played each other.
In situations like that... bots would be nice, but if your college is blocking Steam, even, that defeats the whole purpose for that setting. Damn college bandwidth nazis.
Anyway, I'll be interested to see what VALVe has come up with, though I honestly don't expect a whole lot beyond POD-Bot quality, at this point. Time will tell...Comment
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I hope we see 1.6 final before CZ, but I highly doubt it. Hopefully they will take out some crapy maps in the process like *cough* survivor *cough*the bot idea is really cool its a good way of tuning your skills. I used it heavily in Quake 3 with railing.Comment
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Hehe Gameshot, feel free to poke fun at me all you like, so long as it doesn't fall into the category of "mindless flaming" and such. :)
Assuming you're referring to my comments about AI... well, I've been pretty big into programming for quite a while. Only recently have I had little time for it, due to other life concerns. But yeah, my senior thesis was on Artificial Life, and I've had quite an interest in AI programming for a while now. Not just for bots in-game or whatever, though that'd certainly be one way to go with it.
Tweaking the Tribes 2 bots two years ago was certainly an interesting experience. I quickly discovered that AI code would devastate even a high-end CPU as you added more bots, especially because they require exponentially more processing power.
What I mean is, let's say you have just bots playing, and there's 6 of them. Each bot has to check against every other bot for certain criteria (blocking paths, attacking enemies, being attacked, line of sight, etc), which means for six bots, there's 6*5=30 repetitions of this series of checks. With seven bots, there's 7*6= 42 repetitions of this check.
By the time you get to 8 bots, you're using essentially twice as much CPU power as you were with 6 bots. I increased it from a maximum of 16 to handle up to 63 bots for starters, just to see what would happen. At 16 bots, there was a noticeable FPS hit (16*15=240 iterations of the checks) as it was. But at 63 bots, you're running those checks a whopping 3906 times! So yeah, it scales exponentially.
As such, I can imagine that the first "realistic" bots will be in the form of either a teammate or a boss enemy. No hordes of intelligent players, but rather just having one or a very few, so that you can increase the number of different kinds of things the bots are capable of without overloading the CPU. As CPU's get faster, this will be allowed to scale to more players with advanced AI, but there simply isn't commercial hardware capable of having massive amounts of intelligent bots in real-time.
For reference, when I increased the T2 bots to the new maximum of 63, my FPS dropped from roughly 50 to roughly 0.8 FPS. T2 bot AI has a decent number of tasks, but really isn't very advanced when it comes down to it. Definitely superior to POD-bot's quality in several ways, though. Waypointing for that bot is also done by the mapping software, though the bots can't always navigate successfully afterward.
Anyway, if you want to say I have no life, perhaps it's valid, but I tend to think I've just got a large interest in an incredibly interesting field. Hopefully someday that interest will be leading to a cool job and a good paycheck. :)Comment
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Referring to your comment(ssss) about processing power, or lack, of..that's the main reason why i don't play with bots =P
I think AI is a pretty damn cool idea. But we all know..its still a far way off....even farther than i think we know.
My most direct evidence is referring to Garry Kasparov vs IBM. Two times he was equal if not greater in superior to a computer who could calculate 200 million moves per second (the second one could only do 60 mil/s..but it was more strategical).
Also, we need to ask ourselves if AI is really a good idea. I mean sure it is..but it is my opinion that Humans should ALWAYS be superior to machines...no Terminator thing happening.
AI refers to Artificial Intelligence (dur). This in no way means it needs to have human's intelligence. However, that is a major goal of all developers...that is the dream. But do we even know the capabilities of the human brain. First theres the conscious level...the one everyone knows about...and you might very well say its limited.
But what about the unconscious one? For my best way to explain this...think about a dream. Your brain is able to calculate EVERY SINGLE DETAIL in your dream. Every time you turn a corner..every time you move..every sound..every touch..everything is created by the brain in ITS LEAST ACTIVE STATE. You could move up to an object you've never seen before, and your brain would create every detail..all conversations..
think about it....Comment
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lol, bots. there goes teamworkComment
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mobius. my old rizzuh-given title was better than your's.
oh shit, i still have it.Comment
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i think its great for cs to have official bots but i already got POD so im satisfiedComment
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Carlo: But these bots feature auto-waypoint thingy. No hassle on making waypoints for custom maps when its been done on the fly.Comment
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