Metamod Fixed

[DarkRaven]

Nice that it's fixed.

[Chouten]

alex.S wrote..

wwcl sucks.. if i want to lower my ms and increase my accuracy, i should be able to do so

Erm correct me if im wrong but to change your ms you change such things as cl_cmdrate and cl_updaterate which you can do within a WWCL server. Failing that get a better ISP/Connection



Accuracy comes with skill not cfg hacking



If server Admins would like to try and get people on a more level playing field, they should be able to.......

[Ravenium]

Ok at the risk of being a troll, I'm posting again.



#14, those two comments have nothing to do with each other. Everything blocked in WWCL's config (at least CAL's) is there for a good reason. If you want to increase your accuracy, learn to aim - you'll have to now *hitbox rimshot*

[alex`]

by increased accuracy i meant that bullets will go exactly where you aim, and will always register.. and changing options that are included in the game isnt "hacking".. if it was, they would be gone by now, considering the effort valve is putting in stopping cheats.

[lockhart]

alex, you may be right that it isnt hacking, but having the game play more evenly and more realistically is a goal that is worth overriding the fact that the command is 'in the game.' i'm not a real big believer in the arguement that valve 'never intended' for interp and other commands to be changed, but the fact that the game isnt causing cheesy shots that 'hit' a player behind where they actually are is something we should strive for. not being able to use interp because of wwcl levels the playing field in the sense that it makes the game more 'accurate:' people who would normally use .02 interp and shoot about 2-3 feet behind you with an awp yet still kill you now actually have to HIT you to kill you. is this not something we want to see?

also, for everyone who doesnt believe interp does this, load up a game without wwcl, go to dust2, then aim at a spot from t spawn to the dd with awp, where your friend will run by. take your hand off the mouse, and use enter to fire. use interp .1. have him run across and then hit enter. now, do the same thing with .02 interp. if you didnt kill him the first time, and you kill him this time, you can see how the reaction time is 'shortened.' if you killed him the first time, then you could hit the exact same shot with .02 and completely miss him, even though it looks like you hit him.

using an interp other than .1 doesnt 'increase accuracy.'

wwcl, now that the hitboxes are fixed with metamod, is a tool that we NEED for CAL right now.

[alex`]

using an interp lower than .1 doesent increase YOUR accuracy, it increases the accuracy of the game, so you get the actual position of a player.. this makes the game abit less random, and requires you to actually hit your enemy in order to kill him,.

[Lestat]

to get rid of all the interp etc commands, Valve would need to release a new client, not just a server release. its not as simple as releasing a vac module.



1.6 should have most of the lame variables locked down once and for all.

[Ravenium]

Yeah, I'd have to cheer on the speedy release of 1.6 for some of that. The more I see players misinterpret (no pun intended) network cvars and play with them, the more I can't believe the lengths people will go to for an advantage over someone. People with low interps seem to hit people a couple clicks behind their model draw, which is kinda ridiculous seeing as it's almost an enhancement of being "really lagged" where you get hit by a shot someone took a few hundred milliseconds before.



Even if it wasn't just for that, the fact that people are playing with lan settings on the internet (cmd and updaterates of 100+, rate of 25000, etc) shows that they have no idea what these things do anyhow. Accuracy oftentimes among these types of gamers is just another dirty word for "excuse".



I'd agree that plugins such as wwcl and hlg do control these as well as they can at this point. They have not at any point in the past year done anything to mess with any netcode "behind the scenes".

[Spartibus]

Ravenium wrote..

No worries, I didn't mean to be cranky either :)



BUT! For #8...I suspect you haven't touched so much as a "hello, world!" in your life. Metamod drives everything from chicken mods to statistics, to even administration mods (not JUST anticheat mods). Amazing, really - years of work go into making quality addons and it takes 2 seconds for your grubby hands to type that it is "sh*t". Troll much? :)



And not to really defend WWCL, but there is a definite need for anticheats in the gaming community today. Which one you use is up to your best judgement (hint, Cheating Death )



I admit that as much as I wasn't as rah rah about the fix, I kinda want to get home to play a bit to see for myself.



-Rav

Sorry Rav, I'm not much into C/C++ yet ;-)



Maybe I should have explained myself.



Chicken mod is useless in my opinion, and ruins many servers that are out there today. It just adds stupid stuff like being able to turn people into chickens, among other ludicrous things. Some people may have fun with that, but I like normal games of CS.



StatsMe - well, I could care less for it really. Some people like to see how much damage they did and what not, and others don't care, such as my self. It's possible that in certain ways statsme can be damaging to the game, simply because pub newbies will do anything to get higher in '/rank' and therefore that means not completing objectives and such. But that's not really that big of a deal.



AdminMod - Uh, RCON works good for me thanks. In some ways adminmod can be good, but in most cases it's just a way for an admin to abuse a player/server full of people, for sometimes no reason at all. RCON is all that's needed.



Half-Life Guard - What does HL-Guard do now-a-days? Block CVARs? I'm not quite sure anymore, since I remember reading that it was limited to what it can do by VAC. I don't have any problem at all with HL-Guard, but it seems at it's current state (from what I know, anyways) it's somewhat useless.



WWCL - WWCL blocks commands like cl_bob and cl_bobup, but what for? How in the hell could those commands possibly give an unfair playing field? All those two commands do is stop your hands from swaying back and forth when you run, and I personally like my hands to stay still. Another issue with it, is it locks stuff like brightness and gamma and what not. It may be possible to abuse these commands, I don't know, but I do know that on WWCL servers my monitor is so dark that in tunnles like on dust2 it's near pitch black, with my monitor set to full brightness, just because WWCL blocks that. Is that fair to me and other people with the same problem? I think not. And what's the deal with locking fps_max? some people have shitty graphics cards that cant go above 30, and here WWCL has it locked at 101. Last i checked, that can sometimes lower your fps even more. I understand WWCL blocks stupid shit like interp and whatever the command is for "whitewalls" and stuff like that, but really, if anyone wanted to bypass that, all they have to do is search for it on yahoo and they will find a way to get any commands to work. So really, what good is WWCL now? The legit people who don't use interp are possibly handicapped by things such as brightness, when any newbie can go to a search engine and make WWCL completely useless, and start "config hacking."



I don't know about you, but I think all this shit needs to go, come 1.6/1.7. 1.6 locks interp and shit like that, so WWCL will just be a handicap to certain people and the other people will be playing fine.



All in all, there is no "level playing field" because people have different systems. Therefore all WWCL really does to this day is handicap certain people and let other people play the way the game was meant to be played.



Also, VAC is a much better selection for anti-cheat. Cheating-Death did good in 1.3 but it's not half as good as VAC.

appended @ [time="1052465045"]

Ravenium wrote..

Even if it wasn't just for that, the fact that people are playing with lan settings on the internet (cmd and updaterates of 100+, rate of 25000, etc) shows that they have no idea what these things do anyhow. Accuracy oftentimes among these types of gamers is just another dirty word for "excuse".

Actually, servers have the option of having a max cmd/upd/rate. I believe the common max is 60/60/9999. I'm not sure, but this may even be default. Either way, the ideal settings for online play are cl_cmdrate 101/cl_updaterate 30-50/rate 9999 if you have broadband.



Also, on another note, I've tried "interp hacking" before, and if anything, it was not helping me at all, wrather decreasing my skill. Maybe other people have better luck with it, but from me and my friends trying it out, it appears to give the person using it a disadvantage. I don't quite see how having the hitboxes "lag" (if i should use that term), would help, other than if you have horrible aim and just spray alot, but even then I don't see it helping. Either way you have to aim for a particular spot, so really it would just be the same anyways wouldn't it?

[Faulkna]

Rcon is easy enough to use, but sometimes you don't want other people to know your rcon password. Adminmod is ideal for allowing other people to admin a server, and restrict the commands they can execute.

[Spartibus]

Like I said, adminmod has some good things about it, but it has way too many bad things that overweigh in my opinion.

[MikeJ]

admin mod makes it too easy for people too stupid to use commands like "rcon banid"

[Pomme]

Edited by [user="76187"] @ [time="1052490382"]

You see thats kinda stupid to blame the tools for all your problems.



The problems is with stupid/incompetent/lazy admins not knowing how to build a nice server. I personally build 3 public servers which are very successful in term of having "a nice cs experience". People playing on it are mostly regulars (a mix of serious CAL players and simple pubbers), the server runs AMX with a lot of plugins (but none which really modify game rules, except for a awp limit of 2 per team, the rest is mostly team skill balancing and stats, and some fun stuff for THE occasion of a good laugh)



All our admins have very strict guidelines which they follow, in fact discipline is now mostly enforced by the others peeps instead of coming from the admins, and rarely does an admin needs to take any action to enforce our rules. BTW our rules are kinda simple and aims at enforcing teamplay, fair-play and fun.



I think many servers like this exist, most are run by clans not too much into competition I think, you just have to find the one and screw the others!



About WWCL: It's all about having the correct cvars blocked. The standard version of WWCL blocks too much stuff while the CAL version is a little less intrusive in your customizing. Choose a WWCL-CAL server at least :P

[Ravenium]

Well I think the idea behind an admin tool, such as Adminmod, AMX, Clanmod, or the forthcoming Titan multi game tool is that you can delegate what access admins have. With rcon everyone and their mother can start/stop the server, ban people, change any setting, etc. Sometimes these changes don't appear in the logs, making it difficult for lead admins to find out who's doing what.



A properly implemented admin tool should cut down on abusive admin practices, not encourage them. The idea is that if I see BillyJimBob my admin kicking or banning people or using rcon to talk "anonymous smack" to people, I can limit his access to just changing maps or whatnot. NO admin tool will help you if you recruit jerkwads as your admins, or are a jerkwad yourself. In other words, admin mod doesn't ban people, admins ban people :)



I have to admit, WWCL is getting a bit dated. However, there isn't much more "featureful" ability you can add to it other than new cvars. It just ends up being limited by the valve engine - check the change list for cs 1.4 to 1.5 to see what I mean (they limited directory scanning, which while less effective was a bit annoying). Hlguard in fact now duplicates the functionality of WWCL in its cvar scan - check the latest release (1.41 as of this writing). In addition, hlg also allows the only fully effective Wallhack block (nobody has yet to counter it other than by using sound ESP, whereas a few cheats have bypassed VAC's wh block). In the future, hlg is under consideration for integration with Cheating Death into a unified "all points" anticheat interface.



Even if you're not using an anticheat or a chicken mod or an admin tool, there are still MANY uses for metamod. Natural Selection has a tool to unstick you if your commander builds you into a corner/on top of you. Logmod from HLSW allows you to split log streams into multiple logging servers in order to view from different clients while not disrupting the file logging process. Djeyl has written a web status server that allows you to see your server's status as well as manipulate admin settings. In short, while you can use a "vanilla" server, you don't really get much functionality, and it feels like 1999 all over again :)



Yes, you do get VAC, you can say. However, before you are so sure it is effective, look at a given cheat site for a list of the cheats which are "VAC proof". Now look at the list of cheats which are "C-D proof". Notice that While cheating death occasionally gets 1-2 cheats that bypass it, UA will release a new version within a few days. When was the last time VAC responded to a new cheat within days? A commercial company simply cannot do it unless it is its primary focus (such as a security software company).



Anyhow, I have to say I am impressed with the level of maturity on this comments topic so far. I was worried I would inadvertantly attract some pretty flaming comments!

[peagle]

Tech N9ne wrote..

I don't quite see how having the hitboxes "lag" (if i should use that term), would help, other than if you have horrible aim

I keep reading alternating posts in this thread stating that altering ex_interp "lags" your hitbox. I am under the impression that the following viewpoint is the correct one however:

alex.S wrote..

using an interp lower than .1 increases the accuracy of the game, so you get the actual position of a player.. you to actually hit your enemy in order to kill him.

This is - and please tell me if I'm wrong - the whole point of lowering ex_interp, is so the hitbox's are closer to what you are actually aiming at, which is obviously what you'd want unless you naturally aim off target..



AFAIK it's only going to be able to update this correctly if you have a broadband or better connection.



Anyone care to correct me or otherwise?