Shock's Shock in Dispute

[Serious Sam]

Mr. T wrote..

setting cl_bobcycle to 0 effectively doubles the height of your eyes, allowing you to see things that you would see if you were standing while ducking.

Agreed, I tried it myself. Though the person in question apparently didn't do so.

[mouth]

MikeJ wrote..

It doesn't matter if the variable makes its so he suicides at the round start, rules are rules no matter how silly and they shouldn't be overlooked under any circumstance because it sets precedences for the future. This will set an example to all future clans that you play by the fucking book, read, and above all understand that there are rules and you need to follow them. If people can't get past this esports will never be legitimized.

Christ, i knew it. Legitimized compared to what? Regular sports that are already corrupt as hell? Get off this "legitimized" bullshit for a moment.



A) Precedence means jack. Precedence is what you use when the people involved are too stupid to decide for themselves what makes sense and what doesn't.



"I wanna do this."

"Gee, i dunno."

"But...HE did it!"

"Oh, ok."



That's precedence. Worthless.



B) Penalizing the team will only set the example that the CAL can be half-assed and that teams are expected to suffer for it every now and again. Last time i checked, these leagues were set up for the benefit of the players, so this is not the kind of example that needs to be set. If there's any kind of example that the CAL needs to set, it's one of being reasonable with players and teams instead of being hardnosed and seriously boning them over trivial things.



C) "Legitimization" sure as hell isn't going to come with blind enforcement of crappy rules.



D) Yes, we know that the rules are there. Congratulations for noticing, ace. Do try and keep up while the rest of us discuss whether or not these particular rules should be enforced or even exist. Welcome to the real world, where most sentient people expect things to make sense.

Serious Sam wrote..

Question;



Does any of these variables actually affect gameplay mechanics ingame, and not in the head?

As far as i'm concerned, they don't. In the years that i've played CS, never did i have a problem with switching between r_drawviewmodel 1 and 0. In fact, i eventually settled on 1 simply to hear my weapon reload sounds.



The fact is that cl_bob is cosmetic. I think everyone here would agree that someone would have to try pretty hard to come up with a reason why having it off would be an advantage. Several people have already put immense strain on their pea in posting links to evidence of cl_bobcycle. Add that up.



r_drawviewmodel, as far as i see it, is a preference. While it's perfectly -and obviously- true that it gives more viewable screen space, i've never noticed how that actually matters in CS. If it were to be "outlawed", then i'd have to wonder what would keep setinfo_lefthand from getting the same treatment.



For starters, none of the weapon models in CS are overly large or obstructive, nor are they meant to be. Secondly, exactly how many times has anyone gotten killed by someone who was obstructed by their weapon? CS just doesn't have such extreme height and range variables ingame that you'd commonly find yourself under attack from the lower left/right of your screen. There really aren't even any camping spots that would be more beneficial with r_drawviewmodel off. The factors of sound alone make any possible visual advantage obsolete.

[Serious Sam]

"For starters, none of the weapon models in CS are overly large or obstructive, nor are they meant to be. Secondly, exactly how many times has anyone gotten killed by someone who was obstructed by their weapon? CS just doesn't have such extreme height and range variables ingame that you'd commonly find yourself under attack from the lower left/right of your screen. There really aren't even any camping spots that would be more beneficial with r_drawviewmodel off. The factors of sound alone make any possible visual advantage obsolete."



Yes there are. Spacegun 1, and 2. Also the duelies. And yes there are some situations that arise that call for the obstruction problem.

[rizzuh]

Mr. T wrote..

setting cl_bobcycle to 0 effectively doubles the height of your eyes, allowing you to see things that you would see if you were standing while ducking.

Serious Sam wrote..

Agreed, I tried it myself. Though the person in question apparently didn't do so.

We're not talking about bobcycle.



This is the 12th time it's been mentioned.

[Gpig]

rizzuh wrote..

So because the CPL has mandatory settings for UT which they do not use in CAL, the mandatory setting for CS is used in CAL for the same reason that it is used in the CPL which is for the same reason that the UT settings are used even though they aren't used in CAL but it's for the exact same reason.



Boy, your argument sure makes a lot of sense, bucko.



The CPL settings in UT2k3 are not used for CAL. The CPL setting for CS is used for CAL. How can you possibly believe that they are similar situations when they have exact opposite results?

That first paragraph was confusing, lol. Anyways, the reason that I compared them was because they're from the same organization so they'll have some inherent logic behind their rules. The difference you pointed out in the last paragraph actually helps prove my point and tie it all together. Here is basically what I was trying to say but I think I've only been saying it in bits and pieces and I'm sorry for that. CPL UT2K3 has it's graphics turned to it's highest so that it looks the best for the media. I never actually mentioned CAL UT2K3. CPL CS, despite the game looking comparatively ugly, is probably meant to look it's best also. As you said the CS CPL setting is used for CAL which would mean that many settings could be locked to make the game look it's best. The point I made previously about CAL not allowing low quality models to be used helps illustrate this.

Turning off the view model is not a god damn frame booster. CAL-i players use low resolutions and usually have powerful PC's. The issue is not frames. Why people disable view models, and why they have disabled then since the days of quake, is to gain an advantage. No matter how small you think it is, it is plainly obvious that freeing up part of the screen gives you more screen room compared to not freeing it up.

It isn't more of a graphical tweak in the sense of right handed, left handed, and showing no model. If it ever infact did block your view and you considered it a problem you could easily change hands from right to left but I haven't seen a config that had binds to do so which would lead you to believe nobody considers it a big enough problem to have keys dedicated to it. Surely a cal-i player, a league with players that have it every key bound to change the color of the crosshair, would have some that find it necessary to bind keys to switch to right or left handed models.

You can't even edit picmic at the CPL. Why, oh wise one, isn't that disabled since it is obviously a much bigger graphical tweak?

I hadn't heard of it so I looked up some information. http://halflife.clanbase.com/column.php?nid=26 It says it crashes the game randomly? Doesn't seem like you'll be able to do much if you're getting disconnected by it. No point of stopping a command if it is disconnecting you.

[Mr. T]

give it up gpig, rizzuh is right, you are wrong, chief.

[mouth]

Serious Sam wrote..

Yes there are. Spacegun 1, and 2. Also the duelies. And yes there are some situations that arise that call for the obstruction problem.

I have no idea what the hell spaceguns are, or why there would be 2 of them in CS. Elites are weapons that aren't used in situations where you're far enough away from a target to obscure the playermodels. Also, in CAL matches, they're not used period.

[vapor (v4p0r)]

I can't see why you guys are comparing thsi with sammy sosa. Sammy didn't really help the cubs in that game when kspro was the team for shock. In a game as close as 13-11 with major things at stake, CAL needs to stick to the rules. Usally in cases like these a league will give a round or two to the other team. Well guess what? Giving a round or two may give TEC the win. CAL is really starting to show favor towards cal-i in terms of everything and if they let this slide it will be yet another situation when just because a clan is cal-i, they get off the hook.

[MikeJ]

mouth wrote..

a bunch of crap about how this rule blows and sports are never legitimate so why try

That's not the point at all. If CAL picks and chooses which rules they wish to enforce at certain times there is no point in having a written system that all players agree to upon signing up. They may as well change the rules page to "play your game and we'll decide what happens, cross your fingers".



If you or anyone else here actually gave a flying fuck about this rule being enforced you would get people to voice their opinion on the CAL forums to get the rule changed. I see it happen ALL THE TIME. Most recently a large portion of people got CAL to change the sv_maxrate 10000 in the config to sv_maxrate 0.



Just because you poke your head in to the esports scene once a year doesn't mean you know jack shit about how things are ran and what should or shouldn't be enforced.



Then you go on to slander my belief system on the whole situation by just outright belittling it in order to prove yours is right. I believe that rules are rules and in order to have the fairest playing field possible they should be enforced no matter what, and possibly later after the proper pre written punishment is applied, the rule may or may not be changed based on people's opinion on the overall benefit of even having the rule in the first place. You believe that any rule that "sucks" should not be enforced because it "sucks" and "isn't bad". You also believe that you're right, and I'm off pondering the CAL rule book scratching my head.



If you actually wanted to have an intelligent, or in your words sentient debate you would explain why certain rules don't have to be enforced because of there nonsensical application to the sport at question

[Blankster]

Hey, i have a idea. just like any other sports, why not have a ref? like CAL should hire people/send people to watch games and shit. then we wouldnt have this prob.

[vapor (v4p0r)]

sure they'll be able to find 3000+ dedicated refs real easy.. and plus the ref wouldn't of been able to see the cl_bob

[Gooch_GrG]

as a gamer for over 10 years (yes im an old man so what) i have been both a clan leader and an admin for a fairly large league i personally take it as an insult too the league and would suspend the player and give a ff win too tec. the reasons for this are simple 1 u will be assured no one else will try this again 2keeps the intergrity of the league intact 3shows all the clans out there that u need too follow the rules or gtfo

i understand why ppl want the rematch but 2bad sosad the rules are posted for a reason and no matter how minor some knucklehead thinks it is its a rule for a reason

[quxex1hi]

Obviously.

[Spartibus]

rizzuh wrote..

Why people disable view models, and why they have disabled then since the days of quake, is to gain an advantage. No matter how small you think it is, it is plainly obvious that freeing up part of the screen gives you more screen room compared to not freeing it up.

What I don't understand, why r_drawviewmodel 0 is not allowed in CAL? You say it gives you an advantage.. so what? if it were allowed by CAL, then everyone in the league would be able to use it, therefore there's no advantage over the players, just an advantage over having the variable set to 1.



by this logic, they will soon lock cvars like rate, cl_cmdrate and cl_updaterate just because some smarter cs players can alter them for better preformance

[tspoon1066]

Yup



In my opinion, this is one of the best things to happen to ESports, I would've never bothered taking any interest in it before, but now theres some scandal!

Juicy!