Shock's Shock in Dispute

[David Johnston]

Edited by [user="157"] @ [time="1054943139"]

The fact that kSpro said he had DVM off would suggest to me that he was not aware of the DVM-on rule - since that would be an admission of cheating and if so, any good sportsperson would have admitted they made a mistake and would suggest a fair resolve. It sounds to me like an honest mistake.



But as for cl_bob, if I were the judge, I'd examine how expressly the rules were being supplied and reiterated. If they were plastered everywhere then rules are rules and they should be followed exactly. If they were not made as clear as they should have been, then maybe a conditional exception is appropriate - had cl_bob been on would the result be different?



Finally, per-clan punishment is good for encouraging clan individuals to ensure the rest of the clan is behaving, but mistakes do happen. Some weaker punishment for just one individual should be introduced such that minor breaches of the rules affect the team to a small extent, but affect the individual more.



That said, I haven't read the rules, I'm not a professional gamer, I don't follow clan matches as much as I'd like to and I'm certainly not an authority in matters such as these. This is just my understanding of the situation and I could have missed something.

[Dangki]

NIce link c0r0Na, it's a very enlightening read. If it is true then he is cheating scum. Valve should definately remove although it must mess up your aim?!

[mouth]

Has anyone else noticed the uselessness of having r_drawviewmodel and bob off at the same time?

MikeJ wrote..

I think if CAL lets this off with a slap on the wrist they are letting some integrity slip away. The 3D postponement match last season was different because A.) it wasn't an in game offense, which would have a harsher punishment B.) it was in CAL's best interest to allow 3D to get publicity for the CPL and esports scene in general on national TV.



The match should at least be re played.

WHAT integrity?



The match should NOT be replayed. On the contrary, whatever integrity the CAL has left is only going to be diminished by saying "Hey, way to go for playing an awesome game and beating a team few thought you could beat! Have it voided for a really shitty reason as a reward!".



Honestly, thinking that r_drawviewmodel is enough of an advantage to warrant a DQ or even a replay is fundamentally stupid. Even a suspension of the player in question is a little absurd given the circumstance.

MikeJ wrote..

It is illegal in cal because it allows you to see more on your screen then you would be able to if your gun was blocking your view or bobbing up and down.

It's illegal simply because they want the playing field to be as equal as possible. The only problem is that things like cl_bob and r_drawviewmodel are really splitting hairs in that respect. Because of that, i think it's the CAL regulations that need to be looked at instead of KSpro.

[orion]

David, you make so much sense.



(He must get it from me, after all he DOES copy my avatar.)

[Shadow]

Shows how idiotic some ppl are....o no, i was looking at my math test, not hte comments. Its very sad wat kSpro did, but my grade is sadder. The cheat isnt all THAT bad, altho it gives some advantage to him.Not like aimbot or something.

[rizzuh]

Edited by [user="2065"] @ [time="1054947648"]

c0r0Na wrote..

http://users.skynet.be/comet/liege/bob/index-en.html

Dangki wrote..

NIce link c0r0Na, it's a very enlightening read. If it is true then he is cheating scum. Valve should definately remove although it must mess up your aim?!

cl_bobcycle 0 and cl_bob 0 are not the same thing so this link and the follow-up post should be considered irrelevant.



Anyway, this isn't an "LOlolol make it look good for CPL!!!" or it would only be a CPL rule. By disabling the view model you have more room to see players on the screen, this is inherently unfair.

[Dangki]

rizzuh wrote..

cl_bobcycle 0 and cl_bob 0 are not the same thing so this link and the follow-up post should be considered irrelevant.

Ooops, I should read things more carefully.

[CheesyPeteza]

He wasn't using cl_bobcycle 0, it would show up in the demo too.

[Mr. $ick]

did anyone read Mike's post # 7 and the quote fo the cal rules.

Weapon models must be used. The in game variable r_drawviewmodel must be set to 1 (on). Any player caught without gun models may be suspended or have other penalties imposed. Teams caught with players violating these rules may have penalties imposed; up to and including forfeits, suspension or removal from the league.

That seems pretty straight forward to me. And it seems a forfiet would be a rather lax punishment! They're lucky they didn't get kicked out of CAL. Reading the rules is something everyone playing in the league should do. Just because he may not have known it was a rule doesn't mean it's invalid. If CAL wants to review it's rules it should do it in the offseason, and stick to there guns.



It's the same rules the teams have been playing with all season, it shouldn't change because of a playoff spot.

[KhAoS]

Nice post mouth. Wow. I can't believe I just said that. This "config hack" if you will is like an extra inch on a baseball glove, slightly larger goalie pads, or a bigger curve on a hockey stick. Those are infractions where the player is penalized when he is found out. An entire game of hockey is not overturned because they have a very slight advantage.



However, despite what I think, it is the CAL rules and admins that are ultimately in control of this decision. In the rules

Weapon models must be used. The in game variable r_drawviewmodel must be set to 1 (on). Any player caught without gun models may be suspended or have other penalties imposed. Teams caught with players violating these rules may have penalties imposed; up to and including forfeits, suspension or removal from the league.

It would seem that a forfeit is in order according to the rules, unless the admins deem it to be less than a forfeit for whatever reason they choose. By doing this they risk other people in CAL (I'm thinking mainly CAL-O people who believe themselves to be kings of CS) to use r_drawviewmodel 0 because they think they can get by. The way the rules are worded though, would allow the admins to hand out seperate punsishments for seperate cases. Therefore, a suspension of only the player in question would be perfectly viable with little consequences for CAL in general.

[MikeJ]

It doesn't matter if the variable makes its so he suicides at the round start, rules are rules no matter how silly and they shouldn't be overlooked under any circumstance because it sets precedences for the future. This will set an example to all future clans that you play by the fucking book, read, and above all understand that there are rules and you need to follow them. If people can't get past this esports will never be legitimized.

[Spartibus]

ThePro wrote..

Check out this site... it's in french, but the pictures speak for themselves: http://users.skynet.be/comet/liege/bob/

I REALLY HATE IDIOTS.



CL_BOBCYCLE is the fucking command that allows you to see over boxes and shit. cl_bob just stops your gun/hands from swaying back and forth. There's no reason to block cl_bob



aside from that... no way in hell should the team be dq'ed because of that stupid cvar. the worst that should happen in my opinion, is the player be suspended for a few games

[Gpig]

rizzuh wrote..

Exactly. This isn't an "LOlolol make it look good for CPL!!!" or it would only be a CPL rule. By disabling the view model you have more room to see players on the screen, this is inherently unfair.

I'm pretty sure that your post was pretty much directed to me as I was the only one that mentioned not drawing the model makes the game look better I think. You fail to grasp my point I made so let me elaborate. At CPL winter they played with the graphic settings turned to their highest for UT2003 though at other tournaments turning down the graphics tremendously and adding colored models was fine. A small thing like showing your model is more of a graphics tweak than an advantage. If CAL/CPL didn't have that rule I'm sure several cal-i would still have drawmodel on because it's what they're used to. It isn't like Counter-Strike has a redeemer in it that blocks your view as you fight on tiered maps. I can't think of times where I've ever been like, "Dammit, if only I didn't have this usp blocking my view!". Knowing how to tweak your netcode properly is more of an advantage than something like showing a model. Knowing how to do it takes several commands and you have to read about it. It's not as simple as a visual on off variable. To sum it up, you are incorrect.

[Spartibus]

dfasdkfjssimiliedfjaskdsf



the cubs didnt get disqualified, have to replay the game, or forfeit it when sammy sosa broke his bat and revealed it was corked did they? no. it should be the same with cal. kspro should be suspended for a few matches for this. the dvm cvar in no way has enough effect to make you win 13 rounds for a win.



but i have a problem with something...



cvars like cl_bob are blocked by wwcl. he says he used drawviewmodel, which isnt allowed by cal. wouldnt the cal wwcl cfg block r_drawviewmodel? i mean wtf, they say its not allowed in the rules so they can easily block it with wwcl.



but the problem is, does cal wwcl block it? if so then he was alias blocking and thats pretty serious, because of the numerous things he could have altered. if he was alias blocking, then the match should definitely be forfieted

[Serious Sam]

Tech N9ne wrote..

but i have a problem with something...



cvars like cl_bob are blocked by wwcl. he says he used drawviewmodel, which isnt allowed by cal. wouldnt the cal wwcl cfg block r_drawviewmodel? i mean wtf, they say its not allowed in the rules so they can easily block it with wwcl.



but the problem is, does cal wwcl block it? if so then he was alias blocking and thats pretty serious, because of the numerous things he could have altered. if he was alias blocking, then the match should definitely be forfieted

Um.



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That victory is now being reviewed by CAL as one of Shockwave's players, kSpro, uploaded a demo to gotFrag. The demo apparently shows him illegally bypassing WWCL by using cl_bob 0. He went on to say that he has r_drawviewmodel deactivated which is expressly forbidden by the CAL rules.



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