Poll Update!

[Helkite]

CSX is probably just an exercise in frustration because you're used to the super-responsive controls of the PC version.



Had the PC version never existed, the controls of CSX would have probably be adequate, if somewhat clumsy.

[stevomanevo]

0marTheZealot wrote..

de_aztec is broken anyways. if anything, cal should rotate it out (like de_dust)

i'll laugh and pretend you didn't say de_dust

[puffycloud]

DeFade wrote..

stopsound

cl_weather 0

get rid of the gf2



sorted?

While the casual player could do that, those in leagues such as CAL cannot. Both stopsound and weather are required to be on, and combined with demos recording and smoke can lag even my 9800 pro. It would be nice if it could be toggled, but if it can't then it's better to have a change that benefits everyone than continue having only some people able to play correctly. The real problem here lies with the leagues that force you to use it, although I can understand their reasoning.

[naem]

I don't have a problem with the sound triggers. However, the map does need to be fixed, as for some reason I still lag on that map (with an athlon xp 2500+, a gig of pc3200 corsair ddr ram and a ti 4600) even with weather disabled.

[.b0w. Bushwacker]

puffycloud wrote..

While the casual player could do that, those in leagues such as CAL cannot. Both stopsound and weather are required to be on, and combined with demos recording and smoke can lag even my 9800 pro. It would be nice if it could be toggled, but if it can't then it's better to have a change that benefits everyone than continue having only some people able to play correctly. The real problem here lies with the leagues that force you to use it, although I can understand their reasoning.

the problem lies not with the map, but with cal. thats a simple rule change.. and unless they can explain how it can be exploited (espectially cl_weather) then it should be changed.. not the map.

[Bokuho]

Grr, there should always be a comedy third option



Anyway, I don't mind the sound triggers, the only thing about the new Aztec that bothers me is the rain effect. My graphic card isn't all that great and so I can't afford to have cl_weather turned on, but if I turn it off and just have the sound of the rain it's just plain weird. It wouldn't be so bad if the rain actually sounded like real rain either, there's something 'not right' about the rain sound in Aztec.

[.b0w. Bushwacker]

Bokuho wrote..

It wouldn't be so bad if the rain actually sounded like real rain either, there's something 'not right' about the rain sound in Aztec.

its because he uses 'canadian rain' sounds

[Nebu^]

Too poor to own xbox? WTF!??

My PC costs about 1500-2000 euros. Xbox costs 200 euros.

That doesn't make any sense to me.

[OPIE]

The Thunder does hardly anything to FPS. And if you want scientific.



The human eye cannot see anything past 27 FPS. So gamers who think they are elite with 100FPS can now go crawl into a dark hole and die.



Anything over 27FPS is overkill. I use to play with 15 FPS on every map beause I only had a 3dfx voodoo3. And I played fine with 15fps. It did not effect me one bit. I have a geforce 4 440 mx and I get 60 FPS now and it has not effected me performance wise. I still am as good as I was with 15FPS.



Getting rid of something because the "pro" gamers complain about it is proving nothen but you have a whip around you're neck. I think the Thunder is great. It does allow for surprise attacks. And it is triggered when CT's or T's reach a certin point on the map. For the T's you can get by the trigger by walking up the railing on the ramp coming up from the water and walk into the bridge room. I believe when running to the double doors it is triggered once you pass the boxes on the left side before the double doors.



CT's I am not sure where it is triggered I just know if you come to close to the doors it goes off.



People claim it makes it hard to pinpoint a enemy. GOOD!!! It gives the map the tiny bit of edge it will no longer have when it is taking out, and de_aztec will become like de_dust. It will become a straight forward deathmatch map where the enemies meet in the middle and open fire.



I hate CAL, I hate all leagues because the clans in them think they are above everyone. Competition has ruined online gaming and I hate it. BAH to leagues and BAH to the whiners who complain about anything in the game that they can't get used too. Has the CS community really become that immature? I mean I knew it was immature. But have we taking that extra step past immaturity to just plain NONSENSE!?

[Bokuho]

OPIE wrote..

The human eye cannot see anything past 27 FPS. So gamers who think they are elite with 100FPS can now go crawl into a dark hole and die.

Wrong. The human eye can see well over 27FPS, it's just that after a certain ammount while you're eyes and brain will register the highier ammount of FPS, you won't notice the increase, if that makes any sense. Like, your eyes and mind know the FPS is there and can see it, but in the grand scheme of things they just don't bother to tell you "Oi mate, you're seeing 3,000,000FPS right now". Now, agree that it's pointless to try for 100FPS, but for a different reaons to yours - 99.99% of moniters can't show over 85FPS (85 refreash mode, see) anyway, so say you've got your moniter at a refreash speed/rate of 75, those extra 25 FPS won't show on your moniter as it won't show past 75FPS. Simple.



The human eye can see alot more then 27FPS. Your moniter however, probably can't show more then 85 so there's no point bitching when you can't get 100.



I personally only get about 25-30FPS and it's fine, abit 'jump-y' sometimes (mostly on Aztec hint hint), but otherwise it's playable. There's no need for 100FPS, even if your eye can see it.

[OPIE]

Good point, but still there is really no difference between 20 fps and 85 fps. Anything above 15 FPS is fine. Below 15 FPS is when things start to skip, or jump.



I run a AMD Athlon 600 with the ge4 440 mx. I have never had performance problems on that map. And smoke does not lag me one bit.



Maybe all these people who have problems with FPS do not know enough to turn Vsync off. When something is hindering you're performance and your computer can not keep intact with it. Vsync actualy hurts you by cutting the FPS in half. So turn your Vsync off and you should not have a problem. All Valve is proving by doing this is that little 12 year old wannabe gamers have them whiped by the neck.



The day this update comes out is the last day I play CS. I am tired of Leagues having the upper hand in things specially when the game started out with no leagues and no competition. It was just all about fun. Frag here Frag there it was not about skill. It was about fun.



If you are having performance problems on Aztec it is not the map. It's something in your system. Why should a map have to change when you are actually the problem?



I have one of the crappiest systems right now, Smoke does not lag me, Aztec does not lag me (with weather on too) The only map that I have had problems with is havana. Thats because of all the lighting. But hey, if my system isent up to par why should it change? It's my fault not the maps.

[tspoon1066]

I voted to keep it in, sounds good.



And please do not start another "How many fps can the eye see" debate. Its been done about 1345.2 times and it is soooooo boring.

[pinchet]

.b0w. Bushwacker wrote..

the problem lies not with the map, but with cal. thats a simple rule change.. and unless they can explain how it can be exploited (espectially cl_weather) then it should be changed.. not the map.

It has to do with fairness among all the players.. If some people don't know about it, and some do, then those players get a disadvantage. So instead, they just make it so everyone has to use it.

[puffycloud]

Edited by [user="868"] @ [time="1079715969"]

I'm going to preface this with the fact that I was once enormously anti-clan. Even narby himself can confirm that one.



That said, stop saying you can't tell the difference between 15, 20, 25, 30 FPS and 100. I'm not going to get into the "human eye" debate, but YES YOU CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE. I don't want to step on any toes, and maybe in a public server against one opponent camping their spawn you can't, but I can tell the difference between even 40 and 60 (as can everyone, those who say they can't are lying). I do not play with net_graph or showfps on. Before I overclocked my processor, I could FEEL the fps lag, and when I turned it on it was 40-60. When I overclocked, it went up to 100 and I'm a much better player because of it. To that, you can ask the other members of my team. It's ridiculous to point out that there is no difference, and it just furthers my belief that the clan arena is the better of the two in CS.



Here's where I'm going to get a little bit "radical" and "extreme" in my thoughts. This isn't just speculation either, and I'm sure most of you will paint me in some terrible light because I'm going to make broad, sweeping generalizations that will offend everyone, but they're true. I know this from experience. When I was not in a clan, I was not as good at Counter-Strike. I never cared about FPS, and I got pissed at people who used the AK47 and AWP. I was the stereotypical CLANS SUQ CAL DROOLZ flag waiver. However, I find myself to be 300% improved since I joined a clan, and on top of that I notice little things much more because they matter more. Sure, on a public server maybe the FPS isn't as much of an issue, but when you're in the middle of a real match and you just died because your computer locked up from the weather, rain, demos, and smoke grenades going off, it becomes much more of an issue. And don't say "Well if you didn't suck this wouldn't happen" because it doesn't matter how good you are when the other player can shoot faster than you can because his computer isn't having a heart attack from the 5 smoke grenades in the water. Remember, clan matches are highly organized, and the style of play is different. While playing on a public server, it seems to me that it's little more than successive 1v1 scenarios. Sure, you get the typical rushes, but after that it's just a series of you versus someone else until the round ends or you die. That's fine. In a clan match, it's wait--wait--wait--then within 10 seconds there are smokes, flashes, and 5 guys coming from 3 directions at you. If your computer can't handle that, you're dead. What I'm trying to say is that the clan players are playing at a different level where the equipment itself is more of an issue than it is for those that are just playing to have fun.



I need to add a paragraph break here even though I'm not done.



I think public server folks are great. I think they're wasting their time, because anyone who has any competitive drive will soon realize that casual gaming isn't enough for them. However, I can totally understand just goofing around in CS and having fun. That's great. But why should those who are in an atmosphere in which FPS matters a great deal suffer, while those who aren't playing for anything don't care? If you're looking for superb graphics or immersive realism, go play a game that isn't 6 years old. CS has become a competitive game, and if the leagues will not evolve (the weather issue and all that have been going on for seasons), then I think it's good that there's a mapper willing to see past the general whining of clan players and non-clan players in order to realize that if you can't please both groups at once, you should at least make it so the group that isn't happy doesn't have their game penalized because they didn't buy a Dell.

[kerosine99]

Edited by [user="46815"] @ [time="1079716792"]

puffycloud, are you aware that the eyes in your avatar look like tits?



jokes aside, i'd never really considered the excellent point you make.



personally, beforehand when thinking about this issue, i didnt really care about the preservation/removal of fancy dan weather effects. sometimes its nice, but its not why i play cs. however, i was pretty upset about the removal of the thunder. i've never noticed any fps drop during the triggers, and when i first learned that the thunder wasnt random, it blew my mind. i never realized that map makers would be that clever, and all of a sudden, the tactical ramifications made me want to go out and play aztec all day long.



but, being a casual gamer with only limited clan experience, after reading your article i'm willing to sacrifice what i see as a deeper level of gameplay for the sake of a minority in the community, simply because they're the only people i can usually put up with, and they're the only ones who take things seriously enough to actually have an opinion that means anything.



i want my skill to go up 300%, wish i wasnt in college learning and i had time for a serious clan.