Blackhawk "Whoring"

[WarGimp]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

They would probably be like firing a GL from the back of a blackhawk if EA decided to do that. Therefore end up worse than the current guns :p.

That's what made me think about *auto* grenade launchers.
The accuracy would suck horribly, but you could spam the crap outta areas for a short time.

Would make life *interesting* on the ground.

[Chowley]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

That's what made me think about *auto* grenade launchers.
The accuracy would suck horribly, but you could spam the crap outta areas for a short time.

Would make life *interesting* on the ground.

Ya if you were hovering it would be pretty crazy. Add a couple of nade spammers and support in the back :cry:

[Alcorr]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

The BH was too pwerful for city maps. What the point when the game makers made sure that the singers are well away from flags. I am glad they turn down the guns on it. Although, I think its a weak when you can just about shoot it down with certain guns. I would say that lets hope they never patch it and let it be.

The choppers in 1.12 were NEVER hard to take out. A 50 cal on the back of any transport would down a chopper SOOO fast....and if you position yourself well you won't die either. Now ghost town is a joke for all choppers not just BH, you die to mobile AA in two seconds.....

Masturr was balanced, I didn't play that map much, but when I did it was easy to be MEC and just park your vodnik in the hills near the BH heli pad, you can kill it as it comes in for repairs, and it doesn't have anywhere else to go to repair (well not really, supply boxes if they are lucky).

Just because something can be countered doesn't mean it is neccesarily balanced true, but choppers were completely balanced in 1.12, including the BH, I could care less if they removed stingers all together, you are better off in a 50. cal....

Wargimp has a good solution, bring back the guns for the BH, including splash and give the MEC a nade launcher. Of course they won't give skycow a nade launcher because that would require new animation, but it would balance it.

[WarGimp]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

Ya if you were hovering it would be pretty crazy. Add a couple of nade spammers and support in the back :cry:

Even in-flight, if you practiced I'm sure you could learn to compansate for the angular momentum of the chopper well enough to get a desent spam grouping.

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea. It would make the skycow just as scary as the old 'hawk, but keep it different.

Chauk it up to another good(?) idea that won't be implemented.

[Chowley]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

Ya. They wouldnt do it, too much work. I just cant understand why the increase the damage of the standard guns on the cow and return the BH guns to the old damage and splash. I presume it would be about as much work as 1.22 :p.

[PHPT]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

Masturr was balanced, I didn't play that map much, but when I did it was easy to be MEC and just park your vodnik in the hills near the BH heli pad, you can kill it as it comes in for repairs, and it doesn't have anywhere else to go to repair (well not really, supply boxes if they are lucky).

You mustn't have played Mashtuur much because a competant (read: not retarded) gunner crew would immediately shoot your Vodnik and you'd be knocked out of the gunner seat instantly. Or more commonly, just turned you into burger before you even got to the Vodnik, since half the time they just circle the spawn points and clean house. With the pre-nerf armor, throwing an engineer in the back seat would keep you up practically forever, you could literally have two Vodniks shooting at it and it would wave off before you could get it down every single time.

but choppers were completely balanced in 1.12

Balance is relative, if you think the BH with its Spawn Sweeper is balanced well to the Aircow with its FAV machine guns, on a map where pretty much everything else is equal, you're on crack.

[Alcorr]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

Ya. They wouldnt do it, too much work. I just cant understand why the increase the damage of the standard guns on the cow and return the BH guns to the old damage and splash. I presume it would be about as much work as 1.22

Yeah if they just made the MEC chopper and BH equivalent of old 1.12 BH (well same HP as now), things really would be better and im not being sarcastic.

[WarGimp]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

Ya. They wouldnt do it, too much work. I just cant understand why the increase the damage of the standard guns on the cow and return the BH guns to the old damage and splash. I presume it would be about as much work as 1.22 :p.

Something else needs to be done with the cow's guns rather than simply upping the damage. I've manned 'em quite a bit (even had a buddy intentionally fly me around just to line me up) and I've managed 1, maybe 2 kills with the thing. Firing from a moving vehicle in BF2 is damned hard. When you're relying on direct damage... well, you're in for some serious frustration.

Barring the auto-GL idea, adding splash damage is about the only thing that that could really be done to help things out and put it on par with the old M134.

[LoKi.]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

Just remove the guns completly and allow C4 to be thrown from either side ........

With 1 C4 guy in the back it was easy to make 30 - 40 killz per average round

Very good rounds ranged from 60 - 90 killz

[Jesse]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

True that on Mash the BH was an overpowering factor...

Only if MEC was full of retards. I would purposely go MEC simply for the fun of hunting down the silly Blackhawk. I'm disappointed because they took my target away. Gone are the days of chasing around the Blackhawk full of n00bs with no life that want points and then ruining their day over and over by killing them over and over.

[Alcorr]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

You mustn't have played Mashtuur much because a competant (read: not retarded) gunner crew would immediately shoot your Vodnik and you'd be knocked out of the gunner seat instantly. Or more commonly, just turned you into burger before you even got to the Vodnik, since half the time they just circle the spawn points and clean house. With the pre-nerf armor, throwing an engineer in the back seat would keep you up practically forever, you could literally have two Vodniks at it and it would wave off before you could get it down every single time.

But its all about good positioning, half the time if you get a good position the gunners are looking everywhere and can't find u and the pilot doesn't know where to go and dies.

And no, I played ghost town alot and that was a BH ownage map, and You could have full Engs repairing and two vods DEF would take it down...

Balance is relative, if you think the BH with its Spawn Sweeper is balanced well to the Aircow with its FAV machine guns, on a map where pretty much everything else is equal, you're on .

Im not talking about the map, and im not talking about BH vs. aircow balance, im talking about overall chopper balance. FAV/Vod/AIL/whatever has a 50. cal would just obliterate choppers in no time in 1.12, it really wasn't a problem its just too few people knew this, and tried to use stingers, and so choppers go nerfed even once the missiles started working.

No BH vs. aircow was never balanced, thats why I propose BH to be beefed up to 1.12 state (with same hp as now) and aircow to be buffed signifigantly.

Yes USMC side always had a serious advantage on that map, im not saying they didn't, but masturr was the ONLY map where chopper balance could be called into question....

[WarGimp]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

Only if MEC was full of retards. I would purposely go MEC simply for the fun of hunting down the silly Blackhawk. I'm disappointed because they took my target away. Gone are the days of chasing around the Blackhawk full of n00bs with no life that want points and then ruining their day over and over by killing them over and over.

Don't get me wrong... I hunted BHs quite a bit on Mash before they were nerfed to the point of being ignorable in safty. AT kit plus Vodniks or stolen hummers. I'd even commonely make a squad called "BHhunters".

Still, the imbalance remains true. As someone already mentioned, just because something is counterable doesn't mean it's balanced.

I'm not a big fan of carbon copies... I like different equipment to have different features, but when one's clearly dominant over the other but serving the same role, there's a mechanics problem.

I suspect the original balance was supposed to be that the BH had explosive rounds while the skycow had AP (it's true... skycow rounds punch through stuff), but because it's so damned hard to hit anything from a moving chopper with direct fire it simply didn't work out.

[PHPT]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

Yes USMC side always had a serious advantage on that map, im not saying they didn't, but masturr was the ONLY map where chopper balance could be called into question....

That's because on every other map they get raped so bad by something else that it doesn't matter. You could take away the guns completely and it would barely make a difference.

That's why it has to be evaluated on a playing field where it DOES make a difference, and when you do, it's painfully obvious how much better it is.

[infectedsoldier]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

The BH's were awesome before the patch and it was a riot to ride in, but my biggest complaint was balance. The MEC/PLA choppers were a joke, at least it seemed like it to me. Never flew them much before.

Maybe restore the firepower back to the BH, but have it require ammo and support could not resupply while flying? Leave the MEC/PLA alone with infinite ammo. That way the MEC/PLA chopper could provide additional fire for as a long as they were airborne. Where as the BH could lay down massive fire for a short period of time then need to leave and reload?

Or the other option give both sides BHs with a limited amount of ammo?

[bisley]

Re: Blackhawk "Whoring"

All it is now is a way for myself n squad to get on the Hotel roof in Mashtur