BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

[F-1]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Now, if only someone would do this for Tanks. Tank combat seems incredibly binary. Given the apparent depth to jets, I wonder if there's some info regarding tanks that might make armor combat more multi-dimensional.

I am working on that.

Why the head banging? Of course that's how it works. If you put the same amount of thrust behind two objects with the only difference being weight, the lighter one is going to go faster.

It will go faster initially. but the terminal speed will be different. In BF2 the the lighter one will reach its terminal speed faster. but the heavier one will have higher terminal speed.

[Wreck0]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Max speed depends on altitude, this simulates the effect of thinner air and reduced drag (although it is very exagerated in BF2). I'm not sure if it is actually calculating it as drag, or if the game just applys a multiplier to speed based on altitude.

I strongly suspect they just use a multiplier.

[F-1]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Actually, shape is far more important than skin friction in contributing to drag, but skin friction does contribute a little. That's what all the effort to give things an aerodynamic shape is all about.

Mass is important for inertia, which affects turning, and for comparing to the aircaft's thrust (need more thrust for more mass). Drag doesn't depend on mass.

I seriously doubt drag is computed in BF2. It is far, far easier to simply give the aircraft a max speed and rate of acceleration than to constantly solve for the aerodynamic effects of the situation. I suspect the mass values are really only used for collisions.

drag is definitly computed in BF2. I am sure about it. It is computed only for air vehicles though. there is a note about it in one of the official EA documents on their website.

I do not believe the shape is being taken into account other than the collison mesh.

Ok, who the hell are the "duckies"?
I bang my head when talking about the physics in BF2 because FASTER makes your turn TIGHTER.

The duckies are some very close friends who play bf2

[Wreck0]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

drag is definitly computed in BF2. I am sure about it. It is computed only for air vehicles though. there is a note about it in one of the official EA documents on their website.

I do not believe the shape is being taken into account other than the collison mesh.

If they're not taking the shape into account in the drag calculation, then they're not really calculating drag (which involves solving for the air flow around a shape), they're just assuming a value or using a huge simplification. Like I said, drag is all about shape.

The most complicated they'd have is probably something based on the flight characteristics of the real life plane, but using existing data to assume a drag value for a few different conditions. This is not the same as actually solving for the drag, but for the purposes of BF2 it's just fine.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Very good job Ducky1, very enlighten indeed.

I was doing research all the day about modern combat jets. Yes the J10 weights range 18 to 19 tons!! It was build by a Chinese company CAC and an Israeli company. Chinese PLA spent twenty years creating, importing, and stealing technology to bring the J10 to the sky. I read about the effect of the weight on the maneuverity and looks it has no effect at all. Remember one of the best jets in maneuvering is the F16c and it weight 19 tons! And the F35B was not to replace the F18 horrent but to replace the stealth jets. In real life its real power is its very long killing radius. It can see first and shot first! :hmm:

Wow make me look differently to jets!!

Somehow Chinese steal all the technology. I feel offended. Saying that would be like saying that I am cheating at all my exams because I am getting As. (no way, the Chinese people can't that smart).

When the J10 project started, there has been no communication between Israeli and China, and the Israeli Lavi project was in top secret.

Americans have a tendency saying that only they are the innovators, all the other countries are copy cats. I wonder who stole the technology of explosive from China.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Ducky, have you cracked open the reason why the J-10 respons so slowly to controls compared to F35B? (Thats the ace F35B has against J-10 BTW).

[F-1]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Ducky, have you cracked open the reason why the J-10 respons so slowly to controls compared to F35B? (Thats the ace F35B has against J-10 BTW).

it is because the F35B has four virtual engines in this game. it is the only jet that has such a feature. In all of the jets only the rudders and elevators direct the jet. in the F35B you have four engines on top of the rudders and elevators. Also the smaller mass means faster response but more loss of momentum.

Now I started to think: if the only advantage for the J10 is the speed then the F35B pilots should be smarter in using their afterburners. if you are playing against the J10 then try to save the precious afterburner to a more critical moment like when a J10 is chasing you.

Also the F35B can roll faster which means faster reaching to the moment where you can use the elevators to make a sharp turn. if you use the gravity to your advantage with the afterburner then the F35B may escape a J10 attack (?). I just need a confirmation of this idea from a pilot who has the patience to keep trying to find what works and what does not.

[colony]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Hmmm, this all seems very interesting, but I have a question. I see how the the necessity for different forms of flying in different planes. Have you guys figured out any hints to using the F35?

I dont get the difference between rotation and YAW, maybe that would help to understand, can anybody help?

If you are talking against the J10, there is no hints. The problem is not getting away from an engaged J10, its killing one. I get behind J10s all the time, but killing them with missiles is almost futile 99% of the time.

If your missiles dont work, your aircraft is useless.

if you use the gravity to your advantage with the afterburner then the F35B may escape a J10 attack (?). I just need a confirmation of this idea from a pilot who has the patience to keep trying to find what works and what does not.

Like I have already said, you can escape a J10 with some good fast maneuvers, but killing them is the problem.

The problem seems to be that the tighter turning your aircraft is, the better missile accuracy your plane will have. Maybe this is my imagination. Almost every A2A missile shot from any other aircraft (except maybe the F15) will hit the f35b almost all the time with no problems. F35b missiles will miss sometimes even when the opposing aircraft is doing no real maneuvers. I remember you posted that A2A has 15 yaw and pitch, S2A has 30 yaw and pitch. J10 can dodge all A2A, but not all S2A. I imagine if the JSF had the same 30 yaw/pitch that S2A had, it would be much easier to down J10s.

[Black_Duck_4]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Somehow Chinese steal all the technology. I feel offended. Saying that would be like saying that I am cheating at all my exams because I am getting As. (no way, the Chinese people can't that smart).

When the J10 project started, there has been no communication between Israeli and China, and the Israeli Lavi project was in top secret.

Americans have a tendency saying that only they are the innovators, all the other countries are copy cats. I wonder who stole the technology of explosive from China.

Dear sir,
Very sorry, didn't mean any offense. Chinese are well known of being smart and creative. Stealing technology is an intelligence and every country is doing it. No country has complete set of tech. In fact each super power is spying on everyone else to gain their secrets. and this is an advantege and saves time and money. Nobody likes to invent the wheel. So at all sir didn’t mean any offence against Chinese and for your knowledge I’m not an American, I’m from middlesat. The information I presented did not come from American sources but from archive of Israeli news paper.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Also the F35B can roll faster which means faster reaching to the moment where you can use the elevators to make a sharp turn. if you use the gravity to your advantage with the afterburner then the F35B may escape a J10 attack (?). I just need a confirmation of this idea from a pilot who has the patience to keep trying to find what works and what does not.

Occasionally, but Id say its still a negative. The speed difference isnt that big at all. Like colony said, fast successive maneuvers are the key.
BTW- whatever the speed difference is, that extra afterburner timer makes up for it. J-10 vs F35B isnt a MiG scenario...

[Blades]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Actually, to avoid missles, I find that going straight and making sharp turns RIGHT as the missle is about to hit will work.

[urban//mercenary]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

two questions as a newer pilot:

1. Is it safe to say a newer pilot should not fly an F35 on the same map as a J10 ? I know flying a J10 on Wake makes me feel like a pro. Flying an F35 on the same map usually makes me feel like a total noob.

2. Is there a large improvement to flying with a flight stick over a mouse (mx1000)?

[Iceman20]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

F35 is to replace the AV-8B Harrier and will be used as a Joint Strike Fighter, it is good to see your research! Thanks!

[Blades]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

two questions as a newer pilot:

1. Is it safe to say a newer pilot should not fly an F35 on the same map as a J10 ? I know flying a J10 on Wake makes me feel like a pro. Flying an F35 on the same map usually makes me feel like a total noob.

2. Is there a large improvement to flying with a flight stick over a mouse (mx1000)?

1. If you fly F35, you can complain about being pwned and no one here will think bad of you.
2. YES!!!!!!!!! HUGE advantage believe me. Buy one right away.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Dear sir,
Very sorry, didn't mean any offense. Chinese are well known of being smart and creative. Stealing technology is an intelligence and every country is doing it. No country has complete set of tech. In fact each super power is spying on everyone else to gain their secrets. and this is an advantege and saves time and money. Nobody likes to invent the wheel. So at all sir didn’t mean any offence against Chinese and for your knowledge I’m not an American, I’m from middlesat. The information I presented did not come from American sources but from archive of Israeli news paper.

I am not offended, and I was overreacting. I owe you an apology.

However, my source indicates that there is no way those two nation collaborated. (You don't just hand in your top secret fighter project to a nation that you are not even that close with.)

The Chinese had a fighter design called J9, which looks extremely similar to the Lavi and J10. J10 was based on the design of J9. J9 was canceled.