BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

[Black_Duck_4]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

But the J10 cannot do that. Only the Su30 can move its engine with the elevators.

Very good job Ducky1, very enlighten indeed.

I was doing research all the day about modern combat jets. Yes the J10 weights range 18 to 19 tons!! It was build by a Chinese company CAC and an Israeli company. Chinese PLA spent twenty years creating, importing, and stealing technology to bring the J10 to the sky. I read about the effect of the weight on the maneuverity and looks it has no effect at all. Remember one of the best jets in maneuvering is the F16c and it weight 19 tons! And the F35B was not to replace the F18 horrent but to replace the stealth jets. In real life its real power is its very long killing radius. It can see first and shot first! :hmm:

Wow make me look differently to jets!!

[F-1]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Thanks for the info Ducky4.

You made me curious so I opened bf2Editor. I changed the mass of the J10. what I found is that if you lower the mass the max speed will become higher if you fly straight.

lowering the mass to 8000 instead of 18000 made the speed limit like the F35B speed limit. lowering the mass to a fictional 180 made the speed limit something like 500. I am not sure what unit they use in the game for the speed but I am guessing it is km/h although some people keep saying it is mph.

You are a physicist like me so you will appreciate some of the terms I am using. Air drag is a fact in this game and it is what limits the speed of all air vehicles. for the same jet with a specific cross section (sigma2 :p ) if you increase the mass you will have less air drag. imagine the jet is made of sponge. you will have a lot of drag on it so it will move slower. now if that same piece of sponge is now steel.... hmmm... guess what! it will move faster because of the lower drag force. Right?!

[jakswan]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Not much contribution to this thread other than to say awesome.

[Spiriitus]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Kinda off topic.. Duck your from Ames?? I lived there for 20 years, just moved down to Atlanta. You going to ISU or you originally from Iowa?

[F-1]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Kinda off topic.. Duck your from Ames?? I lived there for 20 years, just moved down to Atlanta. You going to ISU or you originally from Iowa?

ISU is what brought me to Ames :) before knowing ISU I did not even know that Ames existed on the map, but it is a nice place indeed (not comparable to Atlanta I guess).

[Spiriitus]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Yeah its a nice college town. Where are you originally from?

[F-1]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Yeah its a nice college town. Where are you originally from?

Jordan. I came all the way from the middle east to the midwest.

[Black_Duck_4]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Thanks for the info Ducky4.

.................................................. .....................

You are a physicist like me so you will appreciate some of the terms I am using. Air drag is a fact in this game and it is what limits the speed of all air vehicles. for the same jet with a specific cross section (sigma2 :p ) if you increase the mass you will have less air drag. imagine the jet is made of sponge. you will have a lot of drag on it so it will move slower. now if that same piece of sponge is now steel.... hmmm... guess what! it will move faster because of the lower drag force. Right?!

Ok drag has nothing to do with weight Ducky1, the difference in drag between sponge and metal is due to what is known as the skin friction between the molecules of the air and the surface of the flying object such as aircraft. So this is why drag is different. The rougher the surface the greater the drag because friction is larger. I don’t remember weight has any interference with drag constant!! Anyway still my argument is the maneuvering ability of the jet. It depends on how fast flaps and riders rotate. Mass has nothing to do with it. Yes I’d agree it would affect the speed (depending on the power delivered by the engine).:hmm:

[F-1]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

the difference in drag between sponge and metal is due to what is known as the skin friction between the molecules of the air and the surface of the flying object such as aircraft.

You are right. I pull my argument. maneuverability has to do with the rudders and elevators and so on.
Now back to the game itself. BF2's engine obviously takes the mass of the vehicle into account while calculating the drag force.
As I said above, I changed the mass of the J10 and observed how the mass changes the max speed. changing the mass changes the max speed.

that is how physics works in BF2. :wall:

Actually the F35B is the best jet in the game in terms of maneuverability. It can change its direction very quickly, but the J10 is an F35B killer in this game because of its speed and because it can keep its momentum while maneuvering. on the other hand the F35B loses more momentum while maneuvering because of its relatively smaller weight and higher drag force.

[Wreck0]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Actually, shape is far more important than skin friction in contributing to drag, but skin friction does contribute a little. That's what all the effort to give things an aerodynamic shape is all about.

Mass is important for inertia, which affects turning, and for comparing to the aircaft's thrust (need more thrust for more mass). Drag doesn't depend on mass.

I seriously doubt drag is computed in BF2. It is far, far easier to simply give the aircraft a max speed and rate of acceleration than to constantly solve for the aerodynamic effects of the situation. I suspect the mass values are really only used for collisions.

[TheGhost]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

that is how physics works in BF2. :wall:

Why the head banging? Of course that's how it works. If you put the same amount of thrust behind two objects with the only difference being weight, the lighter one is going to go faster.

[Blades]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Ok, who the hell are the "duckies"?
I bang my head when talking about the physics in BF2 because FASTER makes your turn TIGHTER.

[TheGhost]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

I seriously doubt drag is computed in BF2. It is far, far easier to simply give the aircraft a max speed and rate of acceleration than to constantly solve for the aerodynamic effects of the situation. I suspect the mass values are really only used for collisions.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Max speed depends on altitude, this simulates the effect of thinner air and reduced drag (although it is very exagerated in BF2). I'm not sure if it is actually calculating it as drag, or if the game just applys a multiplier to speed based on altitude.

[Dooshy]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Hmmm, this all seems very interesting, but I have a question. I see how the the necessity for different forms of flying in different planes. Have you guys figured out any hints to using the F35?

I dont get the difference between rotation and YAW, maybe that would help to understand, can anybody help?

[vbl]

Re: BF2 Jets Comparison: Chart+Pictures. Input Needed.

Now, if only someone would do this for Tanks. Tank combat seems incredibly binary. Given the apparent depth to jets, I wonder if there's some info regarding tanks that might make armor combat more multi-dimensional.