Squadjumping is too abused

[MrBrown]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

And if they didn't intend to use it as a means for a squad to be able to stick together why on earth did they make the squad leader a mobile spawn point? And why haven't they addressed it, as they di with the other game play mechanics everyone cried their little eyes out about? Simple fact is like I said before, when a squadleader dies, next man in line assumes his position, becoming the squadleader, "squad hopping" is closer to reality than many other things in this game.

If DICE wanted the last surviving squadmember ALWAYS to be a spawnpoint - why didn't they imlpement it this way? Why didn't they make it so that the last surviving person automatically becomes the spawn point for the squad? Why the need to press leave and then press join? Do you actually believe DICE considers the ability to press two buttons a "skill"?
If it was implemented that way, there would be no problems with VoIP and no problems with the built-in command system then. THEN I wouldn't even think about removing it, as it would be perfectly clear that this is the way the game was supposed to be played.

But DICE didn't want the last surviving squadmember to be a mobile spawnpoint - they wanted ONLY the squadleader to be a mobile spawnpoint. They just failed to implement measures to keep people from finding exploits to work around this limitation.

When you play a lot of clanwars it becomes obvious that the maps were designed without squadjumping in mind, as it clearly hurts tactical gameplay. It shifts the game from "flags" to "frags". When two equal enemys fight for a flag, and both do cycle their squadleader position, this can often result in dozens of dead soldiers in a very short period of time.

[Terroser]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

I've played matches and lost against clans who want it removed too, and I've played and won against clans who actually like squadhopping.

You won't make a point by writing that this is a "n00b vs pro" debate.


Well that was funny in BF1942, still in BF2 nobody does it because

1) It's much harder to stay on the wings than it was in BF1942
2) You have the brandnew "squad teleportation system" now - why bother with wing walking?

So it isn't completely usless in BF1942 (as it is in BF2 now), still it isn't nearly as powerful as squadhopping is in BF2.



@Inc|LoKi:
Removing the commander would be absolutely horrible - you couldn't even detect these stupid sneaking back-flag cappers by scan and UAV, making the whole situation even worse....
And Battlefield without vehicles would never ever be Battlefield anymore!

I've played against clans who wantend removed to?¿
yea right. wich clans then? "like low skilled clans right"

no because it's much easier now because if a plane pilot is a squadleader eh could jump and let spawn 5 other people at a flag.

much easier then wing walking and safer.

Sorry but about that noob commander post!!
stupid sneaking back-flag cappers ?

can't you deal without a uav or something:laugh:

If DICE wanted the last surviving squadmember ALWAYS to be a spawnpoint - why didn't they imlpement it this way? Why didn't they make it so that the last surviving person automatically becomes the spawn point for the squad? Why the need to press leave and then press join? Do you actually believe DICE considers the ability to press two buttons a "skill"?
If it was implemented that way, there would be no problems with VoIP and no problems with the built-in command system then. THEN I wouldn't even think about removing it, as it would be perfectly clear that this is the way the game was supposed to be played.

But DICE didn't want the last surviving squadmember to be a mobile spawnpoint - they wanted ONLY the squadleader to be a mobile spawnpoint. They just failed to implement measures to keep people from finding exploits to work around this limitation.

When you play a lot of clanwars it becomes obvious that the maps were designed without squadjumping in mind, as it clearly hurts tactical gameplay. It shifts the game from "flags" to "frags". When two equal enemys fight for a flag, and both do cycle their squadleader position, this can often result in dozens of dead soldiers in a very short period of time.

Tip for you mate!!
You know first time playing. you will get a help voice.
listen to that.

voicehelper: If make a squad people can join then and spawn ect ect more telling and if you leave the squad the next person below you would be squadleader ect

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

It doesn't hurt tactical gameplay, it makes you use it.

So if my squad is assaulting a flag, and all but one or two get killed, even the squadleader, I should remain at a disadvantage because while waiting for the flag to cap, the enemy gets to spawn there in droves and wipe us out? Sorry, but um, no. Hell squad jumping is the only way to get a flag on Rape Island 2007 if you're USMC...

"Roger, one enemy on beach, over"

"I copy one enemy on beach flag, do you want one of the two tanks, the helo, or the jets to take him out?"

"Send it all and I'm dropping arty on him too"
"Roger, out"

[MrBrown]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

no because it's much easier now because if a plane pilot is a squadleader eh could jump and let spawn 5 other people at a flag.

LOL why do you begin this sentence with "no"??
That's exactly what I wrote above.

You have the brandnew "squad teleportation system" now - why bother with wing walking?

Hint:
1. Read other peoples postings
2. Think about them
3. Post

@Auto-ER-:
Capping flags isn't that hard. It's a very sad fact IMHO that many people cannot even imagine to cap a flag without squadhopping. Most of them forget that with squadhopping removed, defending would become more difficult too.
The possibility to do a "spawn bomb" with the whole clan on a single point removes the ability to lay out a good perimeter defense for more than one point at the same time. The first time I saw defenders suiciding to "teleport" to the other flag (where the enemy attacked with his spawn bomb) I just thought "OMG this is sooooo lame".

For your Wake Island 2007 example: You can easily cap flags on the island without squadhopping, of course you need to REALLY coordinate the attack instead of just saying "Well erm we attack here and if you die just press leave and join".

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

I have seen USMC win exactly 1 round on our server at Wake. And we don't even allow bombing the carrier. A good heli crew, and two good pilots will keep them from getting to the island at all, and if one happens to bail out of a plane on a flag, or sneak a Blackhawk through, they are pounded. The defense perimeter you speak of should be in place to prevent a sqaud from even getting to the flag, so squad hopping isn't even an issue at that point. I know very well that defending a flag is easy, me and a buddy held the whole front of Kark while the rest of the team cleaned up the back as engineer and spec ops, no armor got through, no infantry made it to the flag. And if they had, they still wouldn't have got it down, as a simple grenade toss would have wiped em out, the only hope would be to get multiple people on it, and cut our time to get back to it to defend. If you play defense well, deny movement of the enemy, and get them where you want them, you'll be successful. A tactic is only as good as those countering it. A well timed arty strike can wipe out a whole squad trying to take a flag, and a SL hanging back outside of arty range is just as, if not MORE effective than switching up leadership.

I don't see how squad hopping can keep you from defending multiple points. Are we talking 8v8 or a pub? Either way, just like bunnyhopping/DDing, C4 chucking of old, there's ways to counter everything, you just have to play well, expect the worst, a plan on it all.

[Hidus]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

I have seen USMC win exactly 1 round on our server at Wake. And we don't even allow bombing the carrier. A good heli crew, and two good pilots will keep them from getting to the island at all, and if one happens to bail out of a plane on a flag, or sneak a Blackhawk through, they are pounded. The defense perimeter you speak of should be in place to prevent a sqaud from even getting to the flag, so squad hopping isn't even an issue at that point. I know very well that defending a flag is easy, me and a buddy held the whole front of Kark while the rest of the team cleaned up the back as engineer and spec ops, no armor got through, no infantry made it to the flag. And if they had, they still wouldn't have got it down, as a simple grenade toss would have wiped em out, the only hope would be to get multiple people on it, and cut our time to get back to it to defend. If you play defense well, deny movement of the enemy, and get them where you want them, you'll be successful. A tactic is only as good as those countering it.

I don't see how squad hopping can keep you from defending multiple points. Are we talking 8v8 or a pub? Either way, just like bunnyhopping/DDing, C4 chucking of old, there's ways to counter everything, you just have to play well, expect the worst, a plan on it all.

It sounds like you are talking about rotating SLs which is the most benign and common form of squadjumping. You are not going to wipe out an entire enemy team with 1 grenade if they are squad bombing.

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

It sounds like you are talking about rotating SLs which is the most benign and common form of squadjumping. You are not going to wipe out an entire enemy team with 1 grenade if they are squad bombing.

If they clump on a flag you sure as hell can. And if anyone survives, they are dispatched with a gun in their weakened state.

[Hidus]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

If they clump on a flag you sure as hell can. And if anyone survives, they are dispatched with a gun in their weakened state.

Yes they all stack up and sing in unison "please sir, won't you nade me!" while doing a series of leg kicks :laugh:

[=IMO=PFCBerkeley]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

You keep arguing that these people that are squad hopping are talented players and have a good sense of tactics at least in their leaders, yet you still claim that you can take them all out with a grenade if they all clump together at a flag. And there is where the problem comes in, ANYONE with ANY sort of brains knows that you don't send in your entire force to cap the flag, sure you send them in to make sure the area is clear, but then at least a couple of them (if there are more than 2 or 3 people) should move to other positions exactly because one grenade could kill all of them.

Your agrument doesn't really seem to work right there.

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

You keep arguing that these people that are squad hopping are talented players and have a good sense of tactics at least in their leaders, yet you still claim that you can take them all out with a grenade if they all clump together at a flag. And there is where the problem comes in, ANYONE with ANY sort of brains knows that you don't send in your entire force to cap the flag, sure you send them in to make sure the area is clear, but then at least a couple of them (if there are more than 2 or 3 people) should move to other positions exactly because one grenade could kill all of them.

Your agrument doesn't really seem to work right there.

You're missing the point entirely. The purpose of squadbombing is, the squadleader gets to a flag, or close, and everyone instantly spawns on him and takes the flag as fast as possible. So ok, the SL isn't on the flag, but everone else in the squad is, grenade/C4, dead, find SL, kill him. Using tactics and being a skilled player doesn't make you exempt from losing confrontations. It all goes both ways, and like I said, is only as effective as those countering it. If the other team can stop your assault than the tactic isn't as useful as if you are the victors, obviously. I find that racing a HUMVEE into the back of Karkand (or any other map), dropping off one or two guys at a couple different flags is MUCH more effective than a squad bombing one flag. Nothing throws defense off more than spreading it too thin, too fast.

[Hidus]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

You're missing the point entirely. The purpose of squadbombing is, the squadleader gets to a flag, or close, and everyone instantly spawns on him and takes the flag as fast as possible. So ok, the SL isn't on the flag, but everone else in the squad is, grenade/C4, dead, find SL, kill him. Using tactics and being a skilled player doesn't make you exempt from losing confrontations. It all goes both ways, and like I said, is only as effective as those countering it. If the other team can stop your assault than the tactic isn't as useful as if you are the victors, obviously. I find that racing a HUMVEE into the back of Karkand (or any other map), dropping off one or two guys at a couple different flags is MUCH more effective than a squad bombing one flag. Nothing throws defense off more than spreading it too thin, too fast.

No the first wave teleports in on the initial SL, splits off into seperate squads and then the second wave teleports in on those new SLs, etc etc.

[Auto-ER-]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

No the first wave teleports in on the initial SL, splits off into seperate squads and then the second wave teleports in on those new SLs, etc etc.

That's another way of doing it, there is no set doctrine. Only problem with that is, if in a pub, you have to hope that the rest of the team is hip to it, and does it. I have played many rounds where one squad will get in the back, actually take several flags and no one will spawn back there. In smaller matchs there's not really enough people to run in "waves", and splinter into many squads, there the purpose of squadbombing is exactly what I said, get to a critical flag and take it down as fast as possible.

[Hidus]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

That's another way of doing it, there is no set doctrine. Only problem with that is, if in a pub, you have to hope that the rest of the team is hip to it, and does it. I have played many rounds where one squad will get in the back, actually take several flags and no one will spawn back there. In smaller matchs there's not really enough people to run in "waves", and splinter into many squads, there the purpose of squadbombing is exactly what I said, get to a critical flag and take it down as fast as possible.

The purpose is to simply get 1 guy past enemy defenses then you have effectively got your entire team past, regardless of who holds what flags. Take a look at a map like iron gator, you get 1 MEC guy on board the carrier and *boom* the entire MEC team is on board even though they have yet to take a flag. And that is on a pub server with little-to-no organization. In clan matches it's much more dramatic because they can practice it until it becomes second nature.

[Penci|]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

Once again we have people who are crying because they refuse to use a tactic that is available to everyone because they are morally apposed to it.

Seriously, this game was meant to be an arcade shooter. The BF franchise has always been so. With the latest patches the game, especially infantry play, has slowed down considerably. Removing the ability to squad spawn effectively will slow the game down even more drastically. Slower = boring. If you want to play a game with realistic tactics and no squad jumping and having front lines etc. etc. Go play America's Army, it's a free download.

There are alot of things wrong with this game and squad jumping is not one of them. How about we get EA to fix bugs that have been ingame since the begining, instead of changing the game to suit the needs of those who refuse to use the game to it's fullest potential.

[Hidus]

Re: Squadjumping is too abused

Once again we have people who are crying because they refuse to use a tactic that is available to everyone because they are morally apposed to it.

Seriously, this game was meant to be an arcade shooter. The BF franchise has always been so. With the latest patches the game, especially infantry play, has slowed down considerably. Removing the ability to squad spawn effectively will slow the game down even more drastically. Slower = boring. If you want to play a game with realistic tactics and no squad jumping and having front lines etc. etc. Go play America's Army, it's a free download.

There are alot of things wrong with this game and squad jumping is not one of them. How about we get EA to fix bugs that have been ingame since the begining, instead of changing the game to suit the needs of those who refuse to use the game to it's fullest potential.

Sounds like you should be playing counterstrike!

See how silly this "go play game X if you don't agree with me" line is?