The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

*text replaced by me to counter Variable's wiseassedness :P*

Yep, I like alot of the ideas posted here as well (particularly yours). I just think that claymores should be destructible in certain cases. Before, they were destructable by everything.

[vbl]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Yep, I like alot of the ideas posted here as well (particularly yours). I just think that claymores should be destructible in certain cases. Before, they were destructable by everything.

Thank God you have a sense of humor :)

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Thank God you have a sense of humor :)

It was god who had a sense of humor when creating me

[BlueBunny63]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Input from the worst BF2 player on the planet...

Make claymores require manual detonation. How?

1) The detonator controls two clays, like the C4 detonator controls 5 packs.
2) When you reload, your new detonator doesn't control your old clays. Again, just like the way C4 packs work.
3) Finally, you have to drop the claymore, switch to the detonator, then go "click-clack".

Even though this would solve the problem of bastards like me using the claymore as a "fire-and-forget" weapon, and sprinkling them in spawn points and around commonly-taken routes, it would also make claymores behave just like the C4 packs.

Would that be a good thing? I don't see the current situation as being a crisis, but that's only because I'm one of those slow learners who never got into the previous "whoring" eras, like Blackhawk whoring, C4 chucking, bunny hopping & noobtoobing, and now I've found an easy way to make Assault troopers pay for chasing me around corners.

[zipp0r]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

well my 2p since i play the sniper class almost constantly.

lets stop with the, "clays can be blown up with explosives IRL" comments, if this game was anything like real life, my sniper rifle would kill everyone that i saw with 1 bullet, id have no bullet drop unless i was aiming over 1000m, you would never find where i was sniping from e.t.c
when they were able to be blown up, the enemy commander would spot me, an enemy would lob a grenade on my rooftop and disable my protection, making it useless at saving me. fair? no..

if clays had FF on, they are effectively pointless due to teammates setting them off.

if clays werent set off by enemies going near them then how is a sniper meant to cover his back? the enemy commander spots him, an enemy sneaks up without the sniper knowing and he gets knifed or whatever. thats not fair at all.

claymores not being hidden, thats just lame coding by dice, i would like to cover my claymore by some leaves, but the ability to do that is not in the game. therefore they are mostly always visible.

reducing clays to 1, a sniper moves a couple of times per round, he needs his 2 clays to cover the new area he moves to and to set a new one if an enemy tripped it.

crawling upto a clay??: well if you crawl upto it from behind or from the side then fair enough. but crawling upto it from the front? the clay is placed at ground level, so anything moving in front of it should blow up. that trap was placed there to kill anything that faces it.


i find the current claymores to be nearly spot on, they offer the sniper decent protection and they can be used as traps. the only change they need are for clays that are no longer needed to be disarmed and used again, but this is likely to be coming in the next patch.
i really dont see why anyone has such a problem with claymores, ok so you die a few times from them.. wow.. its not like it makes the sniper 1337, since when we had 5 of them, you could usually kill 5-10 people more per round. now its dropped to 2, its alot harder to get that amount of kills. so instead of crying ( lots of people are :roll: ) about dieing from one, how about more people play engineer and medics so your able to combat them. you cant just demand that a weapon that kills you needs nerfing. it happened right after the l96a was introduced, tonnes of threads everywhere saying "sniper rifles are too powerfull pls nerf them", people like that are just idiots and really should sod off from playing games, its not the good players that ruin a game its the ones that whine about anything and everything.

[PHPT]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Since you don't like me posting on the other thread (blah blah), here ya go:

1. Claymores killing (or being detonated by) teammates is not a reasonable way to balance claymores. It's patently ridiculous to make the lifespan and effectiveness of any item reliant on the intelligence and discretion of the rest of the team. No other item functions like that (except landmines, but that's a given) and implementing this function is guaranteed to reduce claymores to inconsequence.

First off, landmines are a given? So wait, it's okay that landmines blow teammates to bits, but not claymores, what's the logic here?

No other item relies on teammate intelligence, but no other item is virtually impossible to neutralize without suffering at least one death. The ONLY exception is C4, and MOST of the time you need to watch it to make an effective trap out of it. The ONLY time you can't really do that is wiring up a flag point and waiting for it to hit neutral.

Claymores detonating on teammates without damage would not remove their primary purpose (covering the sniper's ass so he doesn't get stabbed), it would simply require a reset. You've got two claymores, it's pretty rare two people are going to climb up the roof, that's plenty.

2. Claymores being destroyable by other explosions is not a reasonable way to balance claymores. It's also ridiculous that my claymores can be destroyed in a second by (often accidental) artillery, bombs, jet cannons, helicopter cannons, nearby grenades, or any other explosive projectile. These incidental explosions used to set off claymores through walls, around corners, and in other completely silly ways. I don't expect changes to the basic collision engine, so we're stuck with this limitation.

If being used as a ladder guard, if a bomb, claymore, or jet cannon sets off your claymore, you're probably dead meat anyways, so who cares? As a ladder guard, you don't have to worry about it being set off through walls or around the corner. If it's set off by a grenade thrown on top of it, then you know you're being hunted. God forbid a sniper have to pay attention to the explosions going off behind him.


If you want a practical solution without either of those two, I have exactly one: A 5-ish second arm time to set up a claymore. As in, drop it, then you have to sit there and set it for a couple seconds. There, at least now it's not gonna be used as a squad-smashing shotgun.

That still doesn't solve the problem of them being totally unremovable, since the only kit that can remove them also sets them off. Crawling around makes you such a vulnerable target that it's not really any better than just setting it off, especially when it forces you to use a kit that's dead weight in combat 90% of the time just as claymore insurance.

Since you seem to be able to set "givens", I'll set one of my own: If you see a claymore sitting right in the middle of the road, you should be able to destroy it, practically, with your typical fire team setup, which does NOT include an engineer, but may include a spec ops.

[PBJTime]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Engineers are not useless. Lately, I've been able to pull off decent scores consistently. I'm surprised at how well the pistol does at range and the pump shotgun is brutal up close. Anyways, I usually see at least a couple of engies running around on the servers I frequent. My point is a good squad will have one. Crawling to the claymore seems like a viable solution and it would be a better than just setting off if, say, you had a squad to cover you like it is meant to be played.

[PHPT]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Engineers are not useless. Lately, I've been able to pull off decent scores consistently. I'm surprised at how well the pistol does at range and the pump shotgun is brutal up close. Anyways, I usually see at least a couple of engies running around on the servers I frequent. My point is a good squad will have one. Crawling to the claymore seems like a viable solution and it would be a better than just setting off if, say, you had a squad to cover you like it is meant to be played.

A good squad will get more combat performance out of a DAO-armed AT or medic than an engineer, by a long shot. Engineers are basically designed to be riding around in vehicles, or escorting one, their combat ability is mediocre because of it.

[FlyingEgg]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Mmkay.. suggestion time!

Deployment

- Include a 4 second deployment time.
This would help inhibit the epidemic of plant & run snipers. Also discourages claymores being planted on spawn points and flags due to risk involved.

- Force the sniper to be crouched/prone while deploying.
Again, inhibiting rapid deployment.

- Force the sniper to remain stationary while deploying.
I don't know about you, but you certainly wouldn't find me casually throwing something like this around. Again, intended to decrease rapid deployment.


Arming

- 1 second's worth of arming time.
Allows the mine time to reach the ground. I can see no reason why an enemy should be able to chase a sniper through a newly deployed mine. This is also balanced by previously suggested deployment limits.


Disarmament

- Able to be disarmed and removed by an engineer, or disarmed and collected by a sniper. No other class may remove the mine.

Engineer must use his wrench, which has a timer.
Sniper uses his G key. Timer applied to the ability to pickup/disarm. Must face the mine, and cannot perform any other action while disarming (eg. Firing, reloading, etc.)


Triggering

- Does not detonate on prone targets. Prone targets may approach and pass the mine safely.

- Explosives do not detonate the claymore. Instead, large explosives (eg. C4 or Arty) will disable the mine. This way, the mine still poses a threat, but will not actually be of any danger. Disabled mines will bear no difference to normal, activated mines.


Teammates

- More noticable warnings for nearby friendly claymores. Flashing, and flashing faster as the teammate comes closer to the mine.
Certainly more noticable than the current signs, which seem to either go unnoticed or be ignored by the majority of friendlies.

- Detonated by teammates, dealing up to half damage. Sniper's points unnaffected by team damage. -2 points given for a teamkill.
Prevents teammates from casually passing through claymore-rich areas, but doesn't mean that the sniper will suffer (nearly as much) for teammate's idiocy, but the sniper can suffer for his own.

[PHPT]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Certainly more noticable than the current signs, which seem to either go unnoticed or be ignored by the majority of friendlies.

The current signs are simply broken. I dunno about you, but I hardly ever see the red skull on claymores. They'll show the red skull HUD icon, but not the icon over the claymore itself.

It would be a bit of an improvement to change the icon shown for different mine types. With mine FF on, it's quite a chore telling whether that skull is an AT mine or a relatively-harmless C4.

[Kannon]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Carebear, I don't know what servers you've been playing karkhad on, but I would think the tank, humvee, and the APC would protect you from the pkms and the claymores while making you more mobile. At most, only 2 to 5(at worst) are snipers.

Claymores maybe should have a narrower angle to be set off. Like a 30 to 45 degree sweep. This way you can walk around a badly place claymore thats just in the middle of the road, but if one guy trips it, he might kill the guys walking next to him. The explosive radius is fine.

[vbl]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Claymores detonating on teammates without damage would not remove their primary purpose (covering the sniper's ass so he doesn't get stabbed).

You mean your perception of their primary purpose.

[{USI}_DirTyDeeDs]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Like with artillery all mines (anti vehicle and claymore) should not have a points reduction for a team kill

I agree with this, but I think the claymore is fine as is.

Beware what you ask for ... you just may get it :evil:

[PHPT]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

You mean your perception of their primary purpose.

The primary purpose of a hand-grenade is obvious, the fact that a support player can use it to blow up commander assets is a convenient side-effect. That doesn't make blowing up commander assets the primary purpose of a hand grenade, nor is there any real need for it to be buffed up to be better at blowing up UAV trailers.

It's not hard to figure out what claymores were intended to do, especially on a kit named "sniper."

I'm pretty sure it even says that's what claymores are for in the manual, but I can't verify that because my manual's missing.

[TheEndofWar]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

How about:

Only engineers can can crawl towards a claymore and disarm it from any angle.
Claymores still linger for 2 deaths like C4 and AT mines. Engineer gets one point for disarming mine or gets one mine added to his kit (unless he has a full set still).