AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

[mr_o]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

Manual AT would be my pref. that and make the power of them against Helis 1 shot kills. If a heli is that low or sitting still it deserves to die.

And with Manual AA like IVfluids said is perfectly fine with a bit of skill. Rail gun like and Detonation within visinity would be perfectly fine. it has been proven already

its a pitty they say they cant crate weapons. that would limit the Manual AA on a map.

[fore a lot]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

This reminds me the battlefield vietnam. The NVA/Cong has SA7- the infantry heat-seeking missile.

[Harpoon84]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

Handheld AA is a serious threat to balance in BF2, because there are no restrictions on how many people on a team can take the kit. I'd rather see more mobile AA (like an AA jeep), which can be regulated on a per map basis but still provides the necessary mobility.

Current tankers face the same type of 'threat' and it's not a huge problem... sure a lot of ATs will make your life a living hell but then just get some ground troops to take them out, the AT kit has poor ranged firepower vs infantry so an 'overbalance' of AT troops will soon be wiped out if your teams infantry has any clue.

[vbl]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

Current tankers face the same type of 'threat' and it's not a huge problem... sure a lot of ATs will make your life a living hell but then just get some ground troops to take them out, the AT kit has poor ranged firepower vs infantry so an 'overbalance' of AT troops will soon be wiped out if your teams infantry has any clue.

This is a decent analogy, but the AT:tank situation is different than the AA:aircraft situation. Let me give you a more substantial example to help illustrate the problem:

Think of any map where the US has to leave a remote base and capture flags on land, usually by way of aircraft (Dalian Plant, Wake Island, 64p Dragon Valley, and Operation Clean Sweep all come to mind - Oman can also end up like this).

If you thought it was hard to achieve landfall before, think of how hard it'd be to get a transport helicopter, jet, or attack helicopter through if almost everyone on the defending team had an AA kit (and you know they'd all spawn with it, too).

[Cognito]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

A ridiculous idea in terms of chopper combat. Currently the only downside to AA is that they are mostly static, which allows chopper pilots to still play because they can pre-emptively destroy them. Mobile AA is already a nightmare on some maps, it is not really that it has so many missiles, AA missiles seem to hit a lot anyway in this patch and flares seem less effective, it is more that its probably going to kill you before you manage to find it. Infantry would be able to hide FAR better than a mobile AA vehicle ever could. Two people in a reasonable position with an AA kit would make life impossible for a chopper, hell one would make it very difficult. There are more than enough ways to kill a chopper for an infantry person, already against people who know what they are doing they are becoming glorified death traps with only a mild use as a fast transport vehicle.

[jonnysanchez]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

anyone who has a problem with vehicles and aircraft in bf2 need to watch this interview with Lars Gustavsson. (lead designer of DICE)

http://battlefield2.filefront.com/fi...AzMTEyNTY5MTE=

"how will battlefield 2 stand out from similar games?"
"i would say that, vehicles are still the king"

bf2 is not an infantry based shooter, it is vehicle based. and people need to stop trying to convert it to infantry based by complaining that the vehicles are too strong against infantry

[mr_o]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

vehicles are not king. Look at the majority of maps out there. there are a few vehicles at best. Oman as an example. If u control all the flags u have what 4? tanks and 3 APC's? seems alot but now factor in that u have one stretch of open ground in which to use them. other than that they are running thru streets etc. The tank is no longer a battlefield weapon as such and more a troop support weapon now. Its a shame too as that was one of the big draws for BF was that in alot of maps and mods there was plenty of armour about for BOTH sides and there was plenty of open area to use it.

Lets be honest BF2 will never change drastically and we are stuck with it as it is with only slight refinements. Its the MODS that will give us this kind of combat.

[jonnysanchez]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

vehicles are not king. Look at the majority of maps out there. there are a few vehicles at best. Oman as an example. If u control all the flags u have what 4? tanks and 3 APC's? seems alot but now factor in that u have one stretch of open ground in which to use them. other than that they are running thru streets etc. The tank is no longer a battlefield weapon as such and more a troop support weapon now. Its a shame too as that was one of the big draws for BF was that in alot of maps and mods there was plenty of armour about for BOTH sides and there was plenty of open area to use it.

Lets be honest BF2 will never change drastically and we are stuck with it as it is with only slight refinements. Its the MODS that will give us this kind of combat.

gulf of oman u say? what about the attack choppers, 2 f-35's, an su-34 and a mig? vehicles incoporates both on land and in the air

[IVfluids]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

This is a decent analogy, but the AT:tank situation is different than the AA:aircraft situation. Let me give you a more substantial example to help illustrate the problem:

Think of any map where the US has to leave a remote base and capture flags on land, usually by way of aircraft (Dalian Plant, Wake Island, 64p Dragon Valley, and Operation Clean Sweep all come to mind - Oman can also end up like this).

If you thought it was hard to achieve landfall before, think of how hard it'd be to get a transport helicopter, jet, or attack helicopter through if almost everyone on the defending team had an AA kit (and you know they'd all spawn with it, too).

That type of system would have it's own built in check system already, no modification needed. If everyone and their grandma took the AA kit over the AT kit, they would be cannon fodder for the ground vehicles and anyone with a good infantry kit. The MP5 in the AT kit (that would be in the AA kit also, as the AA missile should be the unlock, not the DAO) is pretty much useless against a good ground pounder and any ground vehicle, so having everyone take the AA kit would not be a problem, because if they did that, they would have created their own problem with a defiency of proper anti-armor/infantry defense/offense. It creates it's own checks.

Several of the maps where you have to cross water to start (like dalian) have their own ways to them without air to begin with, boats. Not to mention, you could take a heli, fly it up a bit high and sideskirt the areas and have people para off their squadie who could just sit in the pilots seat of the heli.

I've played enough BFV and DC to know how that system works, DC_Oilrigs was a good example of a team starting out long ways away with only transport choppers to get to the flags, it never stopped anyone from getting on that rig.

[vbl]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

I've played enough BFV and DC to know how that system works, DC_Oilrigs was a good example of a team starting out long ways away with only transport choppers to get to the flags, it never stopped anyone from getting on that rig.

That's great, but BF2's reality remains - it's very hard to get landfall right now, and it'll be almost impossible with even 5-8 of 16 players on the opposing team manning the shoreline with handheld AA, nevermind enemy jets and helicopters.

[IVfluids]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

Let them have the shoreline, drop in behind them. DC used to have the same thing, everyone would pile up on the closest areas to the action at the beginning of the map and grab all the stinger kits. Sure, they got a lot of kills, but the back end of the map was screwed when the smart ones went around and took the sh*t in back from them because it was poorly guarded. Then all hell broke loose as everyone and their grandma with the AA kits didnt stand a chance against the group of people that ran up their *sses with a good variety of weapons. That scenario was played out plenty of times on maps like Lost Village and Oilrigs in DC.

BF2's only reality is that it is poorly balanced for the ground pounders vs air. I'm saying that from the perspective of someone that does/did nothing but fly in this game when the map permitted.

Not like they would do it anyways.

[mr_o]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

gulf of oman u say? what about the attack choppers, 2 f-35's, an su-34 and a mig? vehicles incoporates both on land and in the air

planes and helis are far less dependant on the lay of the land on a map compared to armour. its only sever maps ie Kubra that effect air power. but it affects Armour more so

[Alcorr]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

#4 With the addition of Stingers, helo's should be beefed up to it's orginal armor.
Since BH's and attack helos have this new threat, with the current armor strength - it just seems too weak. You can take out a helo with 1 mounted machine gun in no time... There was nothing better than having a crew in the BH for fun.... i miss those times cuz now its just ...

Helis already need to be moved back to original armor....its already incredibly easy for any noob to left click twice to shoot them down...or just hop in a 50 cal and blast away....

IMO choppers need back armor and either old missile count or SF missile splash dmg....

Handheld AA is a serious threat to balance in BF2, because there are no restrictions on how many people on a team can take the kit. I'd rather see more mobile AA (like an AA jeep), which can be regulated on a per map basis but still provides the necessary mobility.

I agree and disagree....

The problem is that all too often on maps like wake the chinese team will only have one spawn left....say the beach spawn with no AA (well only 1) and are helpless d by the cobra....etc. etc....

If it took 5 handheld stingers to shoot down a chopper/jet I would be fine with this....

[Harpoon84]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

This is a decent analogy, but the AT:tank situation is different than the AA:aircraft situation. Let me give you a more substantial example to help illustrate the problem:

Think of any map where the US has to leave a remote base and capture flags on land, usually by way of aircraft (Dalian Plant, Wake Island, 64p Dragon Valley, and Operation Clean Sweep all come to mind - Oman can also end up like this).

If you thought it was hard to achieve landfall before, think of how hard it'd be to get a transport helicopter, jet, or attack helicopter through if almost everyone on the defending team had an AA kit (and you know they'd all spawn with it, too).

That is because most people are stupid and hug the water and fly in predictable flight paths. Fly HIGH, as in, near the height ceiling of the helicopter (about 510m IIRC) and I guarantee you will be FINE.

No jet ever flys that high, AA can't reach that high, so it's clear skies all round. Fly to a back flag and tell the guys to paradrop out and take the flag, generally they are not defended at all.

Sure, it takes longer to reach such an elevation, but I bet it's better than getting killed 5 times in a row by AA/jets/choppers if you fly low!

[IVfluids]

Re: AT + Stingers = Helo/Plane solution.

another thing i forgot to mention. if you put handheld AA in the game, it would be very easy to put limits on it.

Here are just some very quick on the fly examples of what could be done:

2 rockets per person
40% damage max against helos per shot, enough to make them want to turn around
80% damage max against jets per shot
Long reload time
Long lock initiation time
Shortened lock range
Shortened flight time on missile
Smaller field of view for missile's lock to maintain a bead on target

There are tons of things you could do to balance it out, and all of them are very simple to accomplish. Most of you that are against it are just looking at it from the standpoint of what you have in the game right now, it doesn't have to be a clone of that, it can have it's own attributes. You could take any of those things that I mentioned and combine them for a nice balance, or use them all.