The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

[colony]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

I'm not a player who likes to put myself at a severe crippling disadvantage (and hinder my enjoyment) versus an inferior enemy in a superior vehicle an attempt to prove something that I already know to be true. I'm a pretty mellow guy, but I'll say in the BF2 series flying against a J-10 absolutely infuriates me. So I simply avoid that situation and pick the J-10. Not that I want some gross advantage over the other pilots, but rather it is the best option for me until DICE provides me with what I truly desire, an even playing field.

I can't wait to play a game of Wake 2007 post 1.12 on the USMC side and give the Chinese teama some severe pain, but until they've balanced the fighters I'm not ready to put myself in that situation.

lol noob. This proves you are bad. You cant beat a J10 in an F35? or a Mig in an F35? Cant uses your head?

While I agree the J10 has a much better advantage, you make them sound unstoppable.

Lately I've taken great pleasure in grounding J10 and keeping them grounded. Let your team get to shore (Wake Island), and the rest is academic.

If their base is an uncap, do the same, you have 600 rounds for something :laugh:

[colony]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

No map is fair, that's part of the fun but Wake since 1.2 is very very unbalanced. A good chopper pilot has a chance to get to shore on Dalian at the start of a round the airspace is not hostile. If he caps South Docks and his team man AA and he is quick to react to a J10 he can make the J10 pilot work a little for his kill.

On Wake the choppers are entering hostile airpspace, potentially manned AA sites, he has no cover to speak of and if I'm flying a F35 I can't go chasing round J10's even if the pilot is very bad, the ground AA is lethal. Take into account lower armour on choppers as well.

Add to that the J10's huge advantage and I can't even do much to win the early battles around the island with the arty on it.

If I'm US against Chinese and they have a decent pilot I'm back to just trying to pull him off my team, I can't shoot the guy down. Take into account the nature of most BF2 players in general, no points = no can do, overall you have a balance problem.



You never play US? Don't you want a balanced game?

Honestly I'm against change hate the way DICE can't seem to make their minds up but this really needs to happen.

If you are talking Wake Island, its a very balanced map. Actually if its a good team vs a good team, chances are the USMC should win.

Remember, the chinese airfield is capturable....once that is down, they are helpless.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

lol noob. This proves you are bad. You cant beat a J10 in an F35? or a Mig in an F35? Cant uses your head?

While I agree the J10 has a much better advantage, you make them sound unstoppable.

Lately I've taken great pleasure in grounding J10 and keeping them grounded. Let your team get to shore (Wake Island), and the rest is academic.

If their base is an uncap, do the same, you have 600 rounds for something :laugh:

Talk about egotripping .

I too take the inferior jet, I love the challenge. BUT I dont treat my enemies in superior jets as if they were n00bs and I certainly wont say a guy is a n00b just because he doesnt choose a "challenge".

Not everyone plays by your rule you know? You can be a n00b in my book if you consider "keeping a plane grounded" a valid way to play. In THAT particular area of expertiese case I dislike you both. But PWs image is saved by the fact that he let a guy take off in his video after that said guy asked for a chance.

[BurnTheWeed]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

I like setting up AA traps. If I'm up against a superior pilot I'll get my buddy to take an AA site and lead the guy right into it's field of fire. Of course this requires teamwork (seems to be a curse word on this forum).

[colony]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Everyone wins, except the players who rely on the J-10 for easy kills and an unfair advantage against all other pilots.

So then wouldnt that exclude you?

[colony]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Talk about egotripping .

I too take the inferior jet, I love the challenge. BUT I dont treat my enemies in superior jets as if they were n00bs and I certainly wont say a guy is a n00b just because he doesnt choose a "challenge".

Not everyone plays by your rule you know? You can be a n00b in my book if you consider "keeping a plane grounded" a valid way to play. In THAT particular area of expertiese case I dislike you both. But PWs image is saved by the fact that he let a guy take off in his video after that said guy asked for a chance.

If the planes are as unbalanced as you say, then why let the superior ones off the ground?

When you read the description of Wake Island, it says something like: "The PLA airfield is the linchpin of the Chinese assault, and it is susceptible to air assaults from north and south of base...blah blah blah". The airfield is up for grabs, which means if J10 is on that airfield, its getting blown up as long as I have enough ammo to do so everytime I see it spawn.

Two wrongs actually do make a right if we are talking mathematics multiplication

[Paas]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

I guess maybe if you are one of those tools who tries to go Rambo stlye in the attack helo and go after everything with rockets, then yes maybe one could be more superior than the other. But if you are playing intelligently and making use of your gunner, sneaking into position so he can TV the other chopper, than there is really no issue of which is better.

The thing is though, I am not one those "tools". Me and my most common gunner (shout out to ElButton) will not be taken down by another Helo while in a Cobra. It doesn't happen. My ability to turn and line up my gunner for the "hose" is amplified by the ability of the Cobra its self.

Any PLA/Mec Helo doens't stand and even chance one on one vs. a Cobra crew of Equal skill. Especially now considering of utterly effective the gunner's cannon is.

Contrast that with the J-10, after the 1.21 patch the J-10 can dodge 90% or more of the air to air missles shot at it. This is something that no other plane can do. I have yet to see a missle not hit an F-18 or F-35 when fired with a solid lock from their six (unless of course they had flares). This is in no way a matter of preference or personal opinion, it is a cold hard fact.

I'm not doubting the J-10's ability to dodge missiles a bit too much. This should be changed. I just don't think making the planes mimic one another is a very good idea. The balance simply wouldn't trickle down into "all" situations as it needs to. There would have to be minor tweaks in other areas of the game.

....we all know how Dice/EA handles minor tweaks. Thier "craptastic" ability at tweaking is what prompted PlaneWhore's suggestion in the first place. We simply cannot risk it. Especially whent he only "up front" benefit of it all would be the balancing of Air to Air combat.

I think the simple solution (Ok. Not really simple at all, actually quite complex. Yet, from my limited brain storming it's the most progressive, individuality maintaining, and balanced course of action I could come up with.) aside of ruining the individuality of planes, etc; are as follows:

1. Increase the Engagement range of Mobile Anti-Air so that it mimics a Jet's "identification" range.

2. Add Mobile A.A. to EVERY map with Jets. They should rival the number of Jets on a map. If the Enemy has 2 J-10's, you have 2 Linebackers. In the instance of Wake Island, the USMC should be allotted one Linebacker per. "peak point" taken.

3. Add shoulder fired Anti-Air as a option for the Anti-Tank kit. The parameters of this weapon should be fine tuned to "low hovering" Black Hawks, and Jets that swoop in low for bombing runs. The lock should be almost instant. Yet, the missile damage from these weapons should be a meager 12%. The engagement range of shoulder fired A.A. should only be about 150-200m. Yet, the reload time on this weapom should be about 3/4ths that of Anti-Tank. The Anti-Tank operators weapon should have reduced climb, and be tuned for "strictly" Anti-Ground Vehicle. Unless a Helo is hovering within' 100m, the Anti-Tank rocket shouldn't be able to climb to meet it.

4. Remove Static A.A. completely. It's the most idiotic tool I have ever seen in a game, considering it's engagement range and capability (Not to mention it's unprotected). If a Team wants to put a Jet down they should resort to Mobile A.A, another Jet, or the limited and weak Shoulder Fired Anti-Air. Yet, once they resort to the combined efforts of these tools they should be able to down a Jet with ease. Unless of course the Pilot is aware and avoids the "hot zone".

5. Beef up the Armor of Transport and Attack Helos. In the case of Tranport Helos the Armor needs to see a considerable buff, and their climb rate needs to be increased. Yet, with this change ALL transport Helos should be subject to .50-BMGs. Much like the one's mounted on Cars and Tanks.

In terms of Attack Helos, their Armor should be increased as well as their flare count. Yet, the shouldn't get "ANY" indicator from Shoulder fired Anti-Air until "After" the missile is released. Heck. Nothing should get a locking indicator from shoulder Anti-Air until the missile is released. This would balance out the fact that it would take about 8 Stingers to bring you down.

I want everyone to realise this is all just one big brain fart. While not fine tuned by any degree, I do feel that if these complex changes where made the individual aspects of Jets and other vehicles could be maintained, while allowing for the balance of gameplay that's entirely needed. Yet, like most of my ideas, these tweaks are presented with the mindset of "teamwork".

{WP}Paas

P.S. - Sorry for any typos. I didn't bother to proof read all of it. It's a bit much.

[BurnTheWeed]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Also remember the US heli's are better than the others so it makes sense that the Jets are the opposite.

[DrJambo]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Also remember the US heli's were better than the others so it made sense that the Jets are the opposite.

Fixed

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

So then wouldnt that exclude you?

Big difference between relying on it, and using it to avoid becoming the victim.

Did I ever say I couldn't kill J-10 in the F35B? No, I didn't, but what I did say is with proper technique you're immune to other planes in a J-10. MiG versus F-35B is another story completely and doesn't bother me all that much. Only newbie pilots wouldn't want the airplanes are balanced accordingly, what are you afraid of Colony?

Bottom line is this Colony:

I'll gladly dogfight you 1000 rounds and beat you every single time. You go F35B and I'll go J-10 and we'll see how well you do. I know you're a good pilot, and so am I, so this will hit my point home better than anything.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

If the planes are as unbalanced as you say, then why let the superior ones off the ground?

Every single round almost without exception on Wake I do not die. I get in the air with the J-10, and unless I do something exceedingly stupid I stay in the air for the rest of the ground. Groud fragging planes is a very effective technique, as you well know, but that isn't a J-10 specific strategy.

[BurnTheWeed]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Fixed

not quite, the Cobra's shape alone makes it's harder to hit compared to the other attack helis. The BH while less effective with the guns is still much prefered over the Cows (I mean other transport helis).

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

MEC chopper is a pretty even match for a Cobra. As I said, a few shots from the MEC cannon is all it takes to destroy a Cobra, and then it is far better when attacking the ground. That is balanced. I've never heard a single person complain about helicopter balance, and I've never had a problem taking out a Cobra with any other chopper and vice versa.

As far as your AA brainstorming session goes, it is overly complex and doesn't address the major issue we're trying to address in this thread, in fact it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. The J-10 will still evade almost every missile shot at it, and all the other planes will still be nothing more than fodder for it.

Balancing planes does more just give pilots and equal chance at beating each other, but it also reduces the overall effectiveness of planes on the whole because they'll be much more apt to engage each other, and in turn spend less time attacking the ground.

Most importantly, the best pilots will create an aura of "air superiority" for their team and allow their helicopters and bomber to operate in that zone. That's teamwork, and that's the dynamic that DICE should really be encouraging with the maps key vehicles.

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

i like the j-10 and it takes skill to fly it

[BurnTheWeed]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

MEC chopper is a pretty even match for a Cobra. As I said, a few shots from the MEC cannon is all it takes to destroy a Cobra, and then it is far better when attacking the ground. That is balanced. I've never heard a single person complain about helicopter balance, and I've never had a problem taking out a Cobra with any other chopper and vice versa.

It takes quite a few shots from both heli cannons to destroy each. The MEC one isn't better at taking down the cobra with the cannon and vice versa. But the Cobra does have a smaller profile which makes it a much harder target to hit when dueling with helis.

As far as your AA brainstorming session goes, it is overly complex and doesn't address the major issue we're trying to address in this thread, in fact it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. The J-10 will still evade almost every missile shot at it, and all the other planes will still be nothing more than fodder for it.

The point being there are other ways to deal with it than just one on dogfighting. I don't know about you but I've got no problem taking down a J10 with ground AA especially when it's focuses on other planes. My friends and I do it all the time on Wake.
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