The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

[Scotty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Princess....

I understand where you are coming from about doing things that can potentially have an effect (be it good or bad) on the rest of the game, but you have never stated any reasons at all why making the planes similar to each other would have ANY effect at all on the other facets of the game.

As far as I can tell, planes will still bomb the ground regardless of their settings. The only thing could possibly affect is the air combat. This wouldn't have any sort of negative effect on the casual pilots. They would still hop in a jet and fly around until they ran into a mountain, or a tree, or another jet. The fact that the J-10 could no longer out turn them would have no real bearing on them. For the people who actually enjoy fighting it out in the air, it would mean a more balanced experience. I'm more of a ground pounder myself, but I like to fly on occasion and I don't feel like falling prey to someone who only beats me because they have a superior aircraft.

Yes .... in "real life" there are aircraft that are better than others, but in the interest of a balanced game (which you seem to want to maintain), the jets need to be somewhat similar.

You can disagree with PW all day long and say that he is wrong, but until you can provide some reasons about how doing what he says would unbalance other areas of the game, you are just arguing to argue. This is not a difficult change for Dice to make. Changing some coding in the config files for the planes is all. I could do it myself, but then I'd obviously be kicked by punkbuster

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

And that my friends, is what they call "dodging the tough questions".

And this is what I call wasting your time, but we'll see won't we

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

And this is what I call wasting your time, but we'll see won't we

Hey Princess, did you read the post made by Scotty above?

Of course, you being a professional game designer and all I'd love to get your perspective on why my proposal is so horribly misguided. That is why I made this thread you know. It offers up something to DICE, other players can read it, add to it, debate it, or discredit it.

Like Scotty, I am waiting to hear what is so horrible about my idea.

For example:

"I think it's a bad idea because _____ will _______ because _______."

Fill in the blanks Princess, that's all I ask.

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Scotty

The proof is in the pudding, if PW is so right and its so easy to change then it'll get done.

PW doesn't know how hold a logical argument and discussion, I backed up most of my original points but he either ignored them or try to wield the power that this was "his" thread and not an actual discussion, that anyone disagreeing with him isn't contributing to the thread.

Everyone that disagrees with him will get the same response, that he's soooo good at the game and couldn't possibly be wrong, and basically get a face full of ego.

The simplist thing to do is wait and see if what he proposes actually get used, since its such a simple change and such a good proposal it will get used right?

Until then i will be right and he will be wasting his time.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Scotty

The proof is in the pudding, if PW is so right and its so easy to change then it'll get done.

PW doesn't know how hold a logical argument and discussion, I backed up most of my original points but he either ignored them or try to wield the power that this was "his" thread and not an actual discussion, that anyone disagreeing with him isn't contributing to the thread.

Everyone that disagrees with him will get the same response, that he's soooo good at the game and couldn't possibly be wrong, and basically get a face full of ego.

The simplist thing to do is wait and see if what he proposes actually get used, since its such a simple change and such a good proposal it will get used right?

Until then i will be right and he will be wasting his time.

Hey Princess, did you read the post made by Scotty above?

Of course, you being a professional game designer and all I'd love to get your perspective on why my proposal is so horribly misguided. That is why I made this thread you know. It offers up something to DICE, other players can read it, add to it, debate it, or discredit it.

Like Scotty, I am waiting to hear what is so horrible about my idea.

For example:

"I think it's a bad idea because _____ will _______ because _______."

Fill in the blanks Princess, that's all I ask.

edit: I'll give you an example of what I'd like you to do, it's so simple and YOU'LL be right for a change.

I think it's a bad idea because (everyone) will (be camping the airfields because all of the people will want to fly planes) because (they will be extremely fun and perfectly balanced).

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Hey Princess, did you read the post made by Scotty above?

Of course, you being a professional game designer and all I'd love to get your perspective on why my proposal is so horribly misguided. That is why I made this thread you know. It offers up something to DICE, other players can read it, add to it, debate it, or discredit it.

Like Scotty, I am waiting to hear what is so horrible about my idea.

For example:

"I think it's a bad idea because _____ will _______ because _______."

Fill in the blanks Princess, that's all I ask.

I already have, as you said yourself, you skipped through what I had to say, you proved yourself an unreasonable person to hold a discussion with. Do you really think I want to explain myself further when you cannot take the time to read through what I had to say in the first place.

My point will stand up for itself as long as DICE don't use this idea.

[Donkey]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Wait let's just make everything the same and skin it diff...is that what you want???

wow talk about fun, yeah lets have no point in being any one said lets make the whole phuqin thing 100% equal so one does not need to adjust tactics at all...

150% DISAGREE with the poster and all the whiners

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Wait let's just make everything the same and skin it diff...is that what you want???

wow talk about fun, yeah lets have no point in being any one said lets make the whole phuqin thing 100% equal so one does not need to adjust tactics at all...

150% DISAGREE with the poster and all the whiners

If that WAS the suggestion Donkey, then how would it be any different than APC/tank/transport are now currently in the game?

However it is NOT the suggestion, read the original post completely from top to bottom before spitting out such a silly comment SuperDonkey. The planes will not all be the same.

[TokenBrit]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

If you consider the J10 to be so hugely superior, I will respect that. You almost certainly know more about it than me. Now here is where I get ****ed off, when you say you always play on the Chinese team.
Acknowledging that China has the best of something, and then switching to China just to use it makes you the worst kind of hypocrite there is. As far as I am concerned you are a team-stacker, only a cheater/hacker comes lower on the pecking order than you, and you are part of the very problem you are whining about.
If ever I see you in server, expect me to switch to China, just in order to lie down under your wheels, and ram you with any other air vehicles I can find. What the hell, even if I cant hit you, I can probably distract you enough to nullify the overpowered J10s our team has to offer, and the team-switching asshat pilot flying one of them.

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

PW you're manipulating or misinterpreting what I have said, I never said it was a horrible idea.

I even said that the game is probably not fully balanced (no game is) what your asking for is unreasonable taking into consideration the whole game, you may not see it that way but it's just the way it is, which is why I can make comments such as EA/DICE will never impliment this idea, and be confident about being right.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Not to mention such sweeping changes have gross knock on effects with the overall total balance of the game.

You said it, not me Princess.

If you make comments about my suggestion like it will have somehow have a "gross knock on effects with the overall balance of the game" and then can't give me one particular example (which are typically quite obvious). Then you are wrong. I don't understand the difficulty in stating these issues.

If someone was for example to say "I think tanks need to be more diverse and so I think they should make the T-90 3x as fast as all of the other tanks", I'd be able to point out flaws in their suggestion, such as marauding groups of these speed demon tanks becoming a little overpowered compared to all of the other tanks. Or other tanks being unable to catch this particular tank should it become wounded and attempt to escape.

Now, maybe spotting flaws in my proposal are a little more difficult than the above, but generally speaking if you spend a few minutes thinking about it, you should be able to catch the major ones pretty quick. Minors ones exisit all throughout Battlefield, so if one pops up (which I do not believe would happen), it could easily be rebalanced next patch.

Look at both sides, you've got to take a risk to balance things correctly, versus the current condition of the balance within the game. How much worse could my suggestion make the game, than the current state where THE J-10 IS COMPLETELY INVULNERABLE TO OTHER PLANES, IS AN AUTOMATIC WIN IN A DOGFIGHT, AND COMPLETELY IMBALANCES AT LEAST THREE DIFFERENT MAPS. Can you think of any problems THAT big with my proposal?

Of course not.

[LoKi.]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

While we are talking about maps and balancing etc I will take this opportunity to remind you what used to blance up wake.

I would take and F-35 the 1st one right at the start of the round.. set up a squad of 6 of our group that regualaly play together and go to the airfield and bail. No matter how good the J-10 pilot is he cant stop you getting to the airlfield in a plane in that 1st 30 seconds of the game.

Once bailed on the airfiled my whole unspawned squad would spawn on me, so far only one J-10 is up maybe the second just took off but who cares they have no ammo now as we hold thier airfield.

Now once the first flag taken on wake is that Airfield all the blue noobs spawn and camp there china never gets it back ever.

Whilst my squad and I took our Raping Blackhawk with 2 supports a medic 2 engineers and a spec ops in the F4 seat for C4 bombing tanks and would easily rack up 120 kills for the gunners raping china with the hawk.

The hawk is all USMC had to balance wake island up a bit in terms of slaying the enemy team. Once the hawk got nerfed armour and guns n'all USMC dont have any advantage like china do with the J-10.

Bring back the old hawk for balance

[Paas]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

I didn't want to get involved in this, yet, I will.

Planewhore. If you were to have the Jets "mimic" one another in almost all qualities, the balance for the Helo's would be thrown off.

As it stands, the USMC has the best Air to Air Helo.

PLA/MEC have better Air to Ground Helos.

So. In order to balance this Dice/EA gave both the PLA and MEC better fighter aircraft. So, in a sense AirPower is overall balanced. Changing any single aspect of that balance in terms of Jets modifies the overall balance in terms of each teams Armory.

The Cobra would be uncontested in most situations, constantly outflying the MEC/PLA, and the J-10 wouldn't be there to lend a hand because it would be constantly busy with its clones.

That's the primary reason I belevie Dice/EA won't implement the changes you have stated.

{WP}Paas

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

While we are talking about maps and balancing etc I will take this opportunity to remind you what used to blance up wake.

I would take and F-35 the 1st one right at the start of the round.. set up a squad of 6 of our group that regualaly play together and go to the airfield and bail. No matter how good the J-10 pilot is he cant stop you getting to the airlfield in a plane in that 1st 30 seconds of the game.

Once bailed on the airfiled my whole unspawned squad would spawn on me, so far only one J-10 is up maybe the second just took off but who cares they have no ammo now as we hold thier airfield.

Now once the first flag taken on wake is that Airfield all the blue noobs spawn and camp there china never gets it back ever.

Whilst my squad and I took our Raping Blackhawk with 2 supports a medic 2 engineers and a spec ops in the F4 seat for C4 bombing tanks and would easily rack up 120 kills for the gunners raping china with the hawk.

The hawk is all USMC had to balance wake island up a bit in terms of slaying the enemy team. Once the hawk got nerfed armour and guns nall USMC dont have any advantage like china do with the J-10.

Bring back the old hawk for balance

That is just about the only technique that will allow the U.S. to beat China on Wake 2007. Though, organized squads like that are rare enough as is and so if you hit up a public server with them you'll most likely be winning either way as a result. Secondly, any J-10 pilot worth his salt will be at the Chinese airbase in 10 seconds or less to drop a bomb on the flag if he sees it go neutral, though if they're fast they'll still have captured the base right before they're all blown to bits, and at that point it's up to your team.

[LoKi.]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

That is just about the only technique that will allow the U.S. to beat China on Wake 2007. Though, organized squads like that are rare enough as is and so if you hit up a public server with them you'll most likely be winning either way as a result. Secondly, any J-10 pilot worth his salt will be at the Chinese airbase in 10 seconds or less to drop a bomb on the flag if he sees it go neutral, though if they're fast they'll still have captured the base right before they're all blown to bits, and at that point it's up to your team.

This was the only technique that used to allow USMC to beat china on wake it doesnt work anmore as the hawk guns arent worth sh1t