CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

[« R²» HKS]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I am not kidding here , it happens, I do play SF mostly (almost all the time) and on the maps like ghost town, there are tons of AA sites, and the map isn't that big, AA can hit everything on the whole map , and I have it several times, you drop flares, but the lock stays , and misiles hitting you even when dropped flares and no beep anymore , just like that .

Watch those two screesn I posted in another thread
http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59484

I had experienced exactly the same in regards to dropping flares and the lock remains. Myself and the Mrs tested out the AA in an unranked server we made. 1st when I dropped flares at least 1 of the AA missiles hit. Sometimes the AA would be "distracted" by the flares then all of a sudden shoot out from the flares and hit the heli.

Also noticed that when I dropped flares I still had a constant lock, it didn't break the lock, though the Mrs said and I could see she didn't have lock but if she fired without lock from her side it would go onto hit me.

Funny how the skill less players who can't fly a heli find the AA acceptable or even want it better than it is now with shorter lock periods, geez how rediculous is that!

[Roger Smith]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

• The choppers have NO WAY to survive ground AA if they do not have any cover... if they get a lock on, they are dead provided the AA user has a clue how to use it (in other words they dont just fire as soon as they can but wait for the right time)
just as ground aa has no way to survive attack helis, if they are hit first.

• Choppers AND jets have almost no way to survive another jet bearing down on them. Choppers? pop flares, move around alot and PRAY.
transports, yes, attack helis no. if an attack heli does a hard turn and flare, they will be fine.

Jets? pop flares and try to get them off your butt... but it doesnt take long to get wasted and if they have ANY skill in following you, you do NOT have enouph time to evade thier lock. That's it.
exactly, keep your rear clear. you can also use manuvers and the upper atmosphere to evade enemy jets.

• Mobile AA is ridulously UNSTOPPABLE vs aircraft.
mobile aa can get owned as much as any other armor, infact, the cannon tears mobile aa up, definitly not unstoppable, more like a fair fight. jets have the element of suprise.

Ground AA? not a problem they have 2 shots then have to reload. 2 rockets might not be enouph to instantly kill an aircraft... after all they do have flares.
a smart ground aa guy can kill a jet as easily as any other anti air weapon.

Mobile AA was FEARED even BEFORE the patch, it would be a HUGE nuisance (more of a PROBLEM actually) to aircraft.
what are you smokeing, ground aa in general did nothing to smart pilots before the patch.

Now with the 6 AA rockets they carry and can launch off all at once before reloading, they are GOD to aircraft. If one wants you dead, and you cannot escape its sights in time, YOU ARE DEAD.
you maybe, i can.

• Choppers get ripped apart even more then before from 50cal machine guns. I would suspect this would be true of jets too, but I rarely even HIT a jet with one, let alone enouph to find out. So I don't think its an issue with jets.
its not an issue with either, and for the record, yo can hurt jets a fair amount with the 50cal

• Give the chopper more armor again.
no, the armor is fine, a good pilot can survive just fine.

• Reduce the lock on area for jet lock
how about instad, dont let aa missiles do hard turns, and fix them, because they are indeed busted.

• Reduce the mobile AA clip...
mobile aa is fine aswell.

• Increase the lock on time.
also uneeded.

There are other problems with the AA I've noticed as well.. sometimes the AA missles wig out...
this is one of the only problems here


for the recond, i play every roll in this game, none of these changes are needed, they would just make weapons stronger that are already strong enough, the real problem is that aa is totally messed up

here are the problems:

-they turn too hard, so you dont need to lead you targets at all
-they go after other targets than the lock and flares
-they go after flares that are out of the flight path and dont go after ones that are in the flight path
-they are indecisive, some times they have a targe they are going for, maybe its a flare, they sometimes change targets mid flight. (can anyone confirm or disprove weather engine heat plays a factor?)
-sometimes they get "stuck" to targets

[PHPT]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

For a start someone like yourself with 3hrs experience flying a helicopter would not have the slightest clue what they are talking about and all the handy advice you offer to heli pilots means nothing because its untrue. That was probably co-piloting or flying in a transport heli. I doubt you could even fly 50ft without crashing.

AA can ignore flares, that's a fact and to back that up with visual proof which is what you are asking for download this vid. http://www.secretsofbattlefield.com/Insaneaa.wmv It clearly shows AA going straight through the flares and ignoring it and hitting still.


Is that enough proof for what we are saying is true?

The amount of experience I have in the air is totally irrelevant, since any experience relevant to this conversation would be EXCLUSIVELY POST-1.2. If I have a thousand hours of flying around at a time when stingers were nothing but a free target, who the **** cares?

That and it doesn't matter how much time I have in the air if I've been sitting in stingers constantly, which I have, which has given me plenty of time to figure out what they are and aren't capable of. Did I mention PHPT was a secondary account created because my main account got kicked too much for having an offensive name? Oh yes, and I hardly ever bother with aircraft any more because they're camped so hard.

One thing they certainly aren't capable of: Launching three corkscrew missiles in a row. Could you find a video that's been slightly less doctored please?

The "ignoring flares" you mentioned is heat-locking after a flare deflection, it's possible but VERY rare, you have to be in a very narrow cone of the missile's direction after it redirects from a flare. That's why you often hit friendly aircraft when you miss from flares too, the missile heat-tracks in the complete wrong direction.

The fact that they corkscrew off of oil towers is due to the fact that they don't explode on them, so instead they build up a ton of angular velocity while still on "follow" mode (meaning they're still glued to the tower) and then when knocked off they go insane.

[« R²» HKS]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

Please are you trying to say that video is doctored, LMFAO. Dude look where the AA goes straight through the flares and continues on to hit the heli. That happens multiple times.

I searched on your name in your sig and you had 3:11 of flight time in a heli with 110 kills. Please don't try and make out you have any idea what it is like to fly a heli in 1.2 or before whatever your excuse is.

That video I showed is proof, I guarantee that is what happens, coming from a heli pilot with 250hrs experience.

[PHPT]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I searched on your name in your sig and you had 3:11 of flight time in a heli with 110 kills. Please don't try and make out you have any idea what it is like to fly a heli in 1.2 or before whatever your excuse is.

Go back and read my ****ing post. Second account, don't fly much any more, sit in stingers all day, which is enough. Next.

I just checked your stats, 55 minutes in ground defense with 594 hours played, and the same number of kills as I got with 38 minutes in and 121 hours, yeah, your experience with the stinger is remarkable.

Please are you trying to say that video is doctored, LMFAO. Dude look where the AA goes straight through the flares and continues on to hit the heli. That happens multiple times.

It doesn't go straight through, the second shot is a re-angle of the first, which it turns about 90 degrees after locking on a flare. All were flare redirects, which are NOT common.

And I'll believe it's not doctored when you can teach me how to make the IGLA fire corkscrew circus missiles not once, not twice, but THREE times.

[« R²» HKS]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

Look if you think its doctored which obviously its not I can post up testing I have personally done, where the AA is attracted to the flares, radically zig zags in between them then slingshots out still to hit me in the heli. Also shots same as that vid where 1 of the 2 AA will go for the flares but the other goes for the heli, straight through the flares. I'm not making this sh*t up man, this is what happens.

Also you can fire the AA without lock and it will go straight through the flares and hit the heli.

Its only taken me 5 minutes sitting in an IGLA to experience all of this. Why do I need to sit in it for hours to work this out. Just cause you can't is not my problem.

[PHPT]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

Its only taken me 5 minutes sitting in an IGLA to experience all of this. Why do I need to sit in it for hours to work this out. Just cause you can't is not my problem.

I could ask the same of why I need to sit in a plane all day to experience it, you seem to think that's relevant. Regardless, I've yet to see any artifacts anywhere near that severe, with a hell of a lot more than 5 minutes in a stinger. I've seen missiles redirect off flares to targets (which you can easily figure out the mechanics of if you have any idea how the missiles work, it's blind luck without a lock), but to call it anything even close to consistent is ridiculous.

I invite you to share your secrets once again. Since it apparently only takes 5 minutes of sitting in an IGLA to pull those stunts, perhaps you can detail how, as opposed to letting the rest of us crazy people continue to fire missiles into the sun every time something's got flares dropped.

[« R²» HKS]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I could ask the same of why I need to sit in a plane all day to experience it, you seem to think that's relevant. Regardless, I've yet to see any artifacts anywhere near that severe, with a hell of a lot more than 5 minutes in a stinger. I've seen missiles redirect off flares to targets (which you can easily figure out the mechanics of if you have any idea how the missiles work, it's blind luck without a lock), but to call it anything even close to consistent is ridiculous.

I invite you to share your secrets once again. Since it apparently only takes 5 minutes of sitting in an IGLA to pull those stunts, perhaps you can detail how, as opposed to letting the rest of us crazy people continue to fire missiles into the sun every time something's got flares dropped.

I'm not talking about flying a plane. Where have I mentioned anything to do with planes, I am talking about attack helis only. In a plane it is a lot easier to avoid IGLA's by flying high and dive bombing, you cannot do that in a heli.

You can fire the IGLA's without a lock and hit a heli, regardless if they drop flares or not. Its not a 100% chance this will happen but it does happen more often than not. Also when a heli pilot drops flares I can still hear a solid tone whereas the person in the IGLA doesn't. However if that person in the IGLA still fires anyway without tone they hit the heli, we have tested this in an unranked server.

The other thing is the lock range can be extended, if you get lock or even an unbroken tone whilst they are in range, they can fly out of what should be the lock range of an AA missile and still have lock.

As I said we have tested all of this, I suggest you do the same before making untested statements.

[PHPT]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

However if that person in the IGLA still fires anyway without tone they hit the heli, we have tested this in an unranked server.

....

As I said we have tested all of this, I suggest you do the same before making untested statements.

Which is funny, because I've yet to do that without the missile flying off into the distance. One of us is apparently lying. :P

[« R²» HKS]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

Yes you have yet to do that, as in testing it for yourself and you would have no idea that as a heli pilot I'm hearing a solid tone even when I drop flares yet the person in the IGLA hears a broken tone and if they fire when the tone is broken and I hear the solid tone it hits. This is what testing is all about. We have tested it you haven't. You would have no idea whatsoever being in an IGLA when you have a broken tone the heli pilots has a solid tone.

That's why people like me who have tested this out fully can fire an IGLA and hit a target without tone. Prove me wrong that this is not possible! I know I ain't lying!

[Alcorr]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

An APC goes down in four (4) FFAR's which leaves four (4) FFAR's in the pods.
A tank goes down in five (5) FFAR's which three (3) FFAR's in the pods.

Are you sure it doesn't depend where you hit them?

Because for me its always apc is 5 rockets and tanks are 6...

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

Clearly not thought out very well. You show the plane making an S-shaped turn, but think what would happen if the plane just continued making that turn instead of switching direction. It would (surprise!) fall behind the other side of the lock cone, making it hit the same problem as tight tracking. In other words, you could still break a missile lock simply by pulling up really hard, it would only take a bit longer.

PHPT

I think its a matter of testing really. Its the GENERAL IDEA. The details, for exampel the "tick time" and "lag lenght" and their optimum comes out in the testing. Ive thought about the same problem. It can be solved by lowering missiles speed, reducing its fuel time to 7 seconds (F-35B has a 10 second AB timer), keeping the lag at a level on which it CAN track a jet using AFTERBURNER turn but CANT hit it, and CAN HIT a jet which isnt using an AFTERBURNER turn.

What we get is a cat-mouse play of timed missile shots. First you wear off your opponent of his afterburner and shoot the missiles in a delayed progression, which results in acrobatic chases with 95% hitting missiles if the shots are timed. Thus- welcome back, Mr Skills.

[rombaft]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

fact is, as it is now, it is stupid, yesterday, there was a AA rocket not knowing where to go (between two iol towers) , just hanging there in the air doing nothing , untill offcorse I lift the chopper and bam .

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

fact is, as it is now, it is stupid, yesterday, there was a AA rocket not knowing where to go (between two iol towers) , just hanging there in the air doing nothing , untill offcorse I lift the chopper and bam .

You know missiles do that in real life. There have been several occasions when the Russians bombarded the enemy iol towers with STA, ATA missiles, they didnt need a fancy lock so they flew for the oil towers and destroyed them. Then, the aliens gave them radars.

[rombaft]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

You know missiles do that in real life. There have been several occasions when the Russians bombarded the enemy iol towers with STA, ATA missiles, they didnt need a fancy lock so they flew for the oil towers and destroyed them. Then, the aliens gave them radars.

you don't understand, the rocket was just hanging in the midle of air, not in a flame or something, it was stuck exactly in the midle between two oil towers , was there for like 15 sec, then the chopper starts, and it went for chopper