CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

The "middle ground" you mention regarding the lock does not exist. Either there will be a maneuver you can pull consistently to shake any missile, making them the same useless crap they were in 1.12, or they'll hit every time. What middle ground do you want, missiles to randomly hiccup and miss 30% of the time?

Check the 30+ pages of PlaneWhores "Highway to the Boredom Zone" thread where Wargimp wrote down a post with a great idea with some nice pictures. There actually seems to be a way to make it so the missile wont hit you if youre doing advanced evasion maneuvers.

[PHPT]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

Also , what I hate, you hear the beep, your drop flares, but then you have 3 possibilitys .

- flares don't help, beep stays, and you get shot down anyway
- flares put beep away, misiles go to flares, then make a quick turn killing you anyway
- or the flares work

I have never seen the first two happen. Ever. I've had flares knock a missile off target even after I fired with a lock, but you CAN NOT get a lock if there are flares in view, period. And last I checked, firing without a lock simply sends them out to wherever, after which they curb up towards the sun and are never heard from again.

Yes, the oil tower glitch is lame as hell, but I'd sure love to know where people are learning to pull all these stupid tricks that I have NEVER seen happen, such as good 'ol "fire and lock" which we should all know DOESN'T WORK.

[Lieutenant Dan]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I actually love the new patch...my favorite thing to do is fly the planes in this game. Now i have chance of actually getting in one....yahhhoooo!

ps...I don't beive it is very hard to avoid MAA missles...fly high and hit them from their blind side. Also, if people actually talk to each other and spot MAA and such...avoiding and striking them is a breeze

....just my 2 cents

[PHPT]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

Check the 30+ pages of PlaneWhores "Highway to the Boredom Zone" thread where Wargimp wrote down a post with a great idea with some nice pictures. There actually seems to be a way to make it so the missile wont hit you if youre doing advanced evasion maneuvers.

Not gonna bother, because the solution remains: Drop flares, move out of range, go back in range with flares up, drop flares and KILL IT! As long as you're not some idiot who thinks pushing the X button should launch a boxing glove at the stinger site so it'll leave you alone while you resume baserape, they're EASY to take care of. Demanding they be evadable is like demanding the TOW lose wire-guidance so tanks can dodge the missile and "stand a chance."

Air-to-air missiles are a valid complaint, .50-cal turrets are a valid complaint, the oil tower bug is a valid complaint, AA guns actually being really threatening to aircraft who don't do anything to take them out or drop out of their nerfed range is not.

[rombaft]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I have never seen the first two happen. Ever. I've had flares knock a missile off target even after I fired with a lock, but you CAN NOT get a lock if there are flares in view, period. And last I checked, firing without a lock simply sends them out to wherever, after which they curb up towards the sun and are never heard from again.

Yes, the oil tower glitch is lame as hell, but I'd sure love to know where people are learning to pull all these stupid tricks that I have NEVER seen happen, such as good 'ol "fire and lock" which we should all know DOESN'T WORK.

I am not kidding here , it happens, I do play SF mostly (almost all the time) and on the maps like ghost town, there are tons of AA sites, and the map isn't that big, AA can hit everything on the whole map , and I have it several times, you drop flares, but the lock stays , and misiles hitting you even when dropped flares and no beep anymore , just like that .

Watch those two screesn I posted in another thread

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59484

[WarGimp]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

Check the 30+ pages of PlaneWhores "Highway to the Boredom Zone" thread where Wargimp wrote down a post with a great idea with some nice pictures. There actually seems to be a way to make it so the missile wont hit you if youre doing advanced evasion maneuvers.

I'll save 'im the bother of sifting through that junk...

Here's the diagrams:
First, this shows why ajusting missile tracking angle simply makes tracking a binary system. Either it hits 100% of the time, or is shaken off by simple turns.


This shows that by inducing lag into the missile's tracking, you can create a system where missiles can be evaded through complex manuvers, but not simple ones. The pink lines show which point along the diagram that the missile is using it's tacking information from. The first has no lag, the second has one stage of lag, the thrid has 2 stages of lag.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

actuallly i feel like jet armor has increased..but im not really sure because when i get shot at by jet missiles each one use to do more than half damage..but now i can get hit by 2 AA missiles and havel ike 1 bar of health left..which does lead to me blowing up in a few seconds..but theres always the chance of bailing out

The armor was decreased... for sure. But the AA missle damage has also been decreased. That explains why it felt like it did.. but trust me, all armor on aircraft has been reduced... try using ur guns against another plane now, they go down much faster (a good thing as before using guns against another plane wasnt too effective for the most part... but was really the best option you had at the time).

[ThirtyOughtSix]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I have never seen the first two happen. Ever. I've had flares knock a missile off target even after I fired with a lock, but you CAN NOT get a lock if there are flares in view, period. And last I checked, firing without a lock simply sends them out to wherever, after which they curb up towards the sun and are never heard from again.

Yes, the oil tower glitch is lame as hell, but I'd sure love to know where people are learning to pull all these stupid tricks that I have NEVER seen happen, such as good 'ol "fire and lock" which we should all know DOESN'T WORK.

"in view" is the key phrase there.. you can restablish a missle lock on another plane quicker then you might think. I do it ALL THE TIME. You have to be flying in close then WAIT for the flares to get popped.... the flares go outside of the lock on window, and you can relock. You can also help speed it up by slightly cocking your view one direction away from the flares so just the jet is within the lock on window. So it's very easy to overcome the flares really. They just help delay the immenant... unless you can get him off your tail in that amount of time. There are those who are not using thier head of course, and fire as soon as they can... but anyone with a little experience with how air to air combat works and a brain in thier head can figure it out easy enouph.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I actually love the new patch...my favorite thing to do is fly the planes in this game. Now i have chance of actually getting in one....yahhhoooo!

ps...I don't beive it is very hard to avoid MAA missles...fly high and hit them from their blind side. Also, if people actually talk to each other and spot MAA and such...avoiding and striking them is a breeze

....just my 2 cents

Well I did mention that the Jets have a much easier time avoiding ground AA. I don't know why everyone is FOCUSING on the jets anyways, I thought most of the problems I pointed out where with the CHOPPER. I believe its fairly close to being BALANCED right now with the jets.. only mobile AA and other jets (more of the latter) give you much of any problem... if your smart anyways.

I brought jets up because they are part of the dicussion, but I never intended to FOCUS on them. They have the LEAST amount of problems with the new patch.... and I stated that, but people don't seem to read it, and assume I'm yellin they jets are gimped to hell. They aren't.... either are the choppers, I still see choppers being used... its just they got hit ALOT harder then jets... and are ALOT less effective...

[Kattspya]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I'm sorry I didnt do online tests for you. I never said that it was tested information. I'm going by what I've experienced... since the patch, it seems I need to hit the tank with all 8 rockets to kill it... and by tank I mean the MAIN BATTLE TANKS. Nothing else. Not APCs. Did I say that it took all for APCs? NO. Go try it. I bet your wrong... because I've tried hitting a tank with 6 rockets only to have it near death many a times. And dont start yapping about APCs if somebody said tank. A apc is NOT a tank.

You poor little fella.

let me quote myself while bolding the salient point of my post. It looks like you missed that part. Instead of attacking those who in the future point out serious errors in your posts try saying that you made a mistake and then fix it. I wasn't the one in error you were and you gain no points by attacking me. If you become highly agitated when you're wrong then make sure you aren't wrong. Another suggestion is to not speak in absolutes when you aren't one hundred percent sure about a statement.

A tank goes down in five (5) FFAR's which three (3) FFAR's in the pods.

Explanation to the word tank in the above quote: When I say tank I mean a MBT I don't mean APC and I don't mean a transport vehicle.


And please understand that you can't base any alterations or suggestions for alterations of the game on false data.

[PHPT]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

This shows that by inducing lag into the missile's tracking, you can create a system where missiles can be evaded through complex manuvers, but not simple ones. The pink lines show which point along the diagram that the missile is using it's tacking information from. The first has no lag, the second has one stage of lag, the thrid has 2 stages of lag.

Clearly not thought out very well. You show the plane making an S-shaped turn, but think what would happen if the plane just continued making that turn instead of switching direction. It would (surprise!) fall behind the other side of the lock cone, making it hit the same problem as tight tracking. In other words, you could still break a missile lock simply by pulling up really hard, it would only take a bit longer.

[DrMcleod]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I don't understand people STILL complaining about ground-based AA emplacements. I am a crap pilot and I can avoid them with minimal effort. The point is I have to AVOID them, rather than just flying over them with impunity.

[Kattspya]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

I don't understand people STILL complaining about ground-based AA emplacements. I am a crap pilot and I can avoid them with minimal effort. The point is I have to AVOID them, rather than just flying over them with impunity.

How do you avoid the rockets that ignore flares? How do you avoid the stray AA and A2A?

[PHPT]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

How do you avoid the rockets that ignore flares? How do you avoid the stray AA and A2A?

Can someone please provide proof of these "rockets that ignore flares?" Can someone please give me some so I can load them up into my IGLA, instead of firing these crappy ones that go straight out into the distance when I don't have a lock because flares are cluttering my view?

And can someone please tell me why "stray" missiles which hit about 2% of the time are a balance problem?

[« R²» HKS]

Re: CONSTRUCTIVE critism about the AA and Aircraft changes since 1.2 patch

Can someone please provide proof of these "rockets that ignore flares?" Can someone please give me some so I can load them up into my IGLA, instead of firing these crappy ones that go straight out into the distance when I don't have a lock because flares are cluttering my view?

And can someone please tell me why "stray" missiles which hit about 2% of the time are a balance problem?

For a start someone like yourself with 3hrs experience flying a helicopter would not have the slightest clue what they are talking about and all the handy advice you offer to heli pilots means nothing because its untrue. That was probably co-piloting or flying in a transport heli. I doubt you could even fly 50ft without crashing.

AA can ignore flares, that's a fact and to back that up with visual proof which is what you are asking for download this vid. http://www.secretsofbattlefield.com/Insaneaa.wmv It clearly shows AA going straight through the flares and ignoring it and hitting still.


Is that enough proof for what we are saying is true?