(Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

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  • spaceace

    #1

    (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

    From what I can tell there's a pretty good age spread in BF2, but I'm one of the lucky ones who managed to be a kid during the birth of the video game and so have kind of grown up with the industry...

    I've always been a pretty dull BF2 player, I'm far too old to be learning exploits and bouncing up and down gives me a headache so I just sort of played as the game as it was presented to me...lots of ground pounding, use vehicles if there's one about, don't go near the air cos I'm inept

    I played support and sniper primarily before the patch, never had a problem killing with the PKM before although I can outsnipe a pants sniper with it now, anyway here's my observations for anyone who's interested

    Support - PKM was deadly before, now even more deadly, although still pretty pants unless prone. This means that you're less mobile and normally an easy target if you don't get the drop on someone - increased prone time also helps balance the accuracy of the weapon when you get on the ground.

    Assault - don't see much of the "nerf", although no shooting when jumping is a welcome addition. I still get tubed from close range, although not as often. Nowhere near as disadvantaged as people made out, support gets infinite ammo, but realistically how often do you stay alive long enough to run out of ammo in this game? Assault should be running around capping flags so I'd expect to die often, you get the same armour as support but there's little accuracy difference between prone and standing and you get the grenade launcher. You run around shooting from the hip pretty effectively...do that as support and barn doors laugh in your face.

    Spec ops - see a lot less of them, which is a good thing...I never used to play spec ops because I knew 70% of the team would be that class. C4 is now a demolition charge/booby trap as opposed to the holy hand grenade of Antioch! No armour means it's advisable to sneak around a lot more which is exactly what they should be doing, can still take out tanks, just need to think about it a bit more.

    AT- again, never had a problem taking out tanks with the kit...took out a tank and 2 AA's on the bounce yesterday with a lot of luck and sneakiness.

    Medic - doesn't seem much different except for the bugs which'll hopefully be sorted in 1.21. Wish they wouldn't keep reviving me in front of tanks though :)

    Sniper - most played kit, played it a lot before and was already a claymore fan. I wasn't in favour of the FF change on mines, but it does stop you worrying about potential TK's and frees snipers up a lot. I think once people have calmed down over the new rules and weapons there'll be less snipers again as it's rubbish for points!

    Engineer - Again, I thought turning FF off on mines was a bad idea, but it has allowed engineers to play with more freedom and made the kit much more attractive. The game has shifted a lot, you can now booby trap your own vehicle spawns to stop them being stolen, or get out of your tank and stick a mine on it safe in the knowledge that if someone gets in it they'll blow up, but you won't :) It changes things a lot, and the engineer has to weigh up what his mines are worth...protect a flag, stop vehicles being stolen or keep them for sneaking up on tanks?

    Overall I think the patch has evened up the classes and none of them have a major disadvantage over others anymore. I'm due to play a substantial wedge of assault to get my veteran badge but I enjoy playing them all, the games different for each of them. I also don't think the S2A's as bad as pilots thought - if they get the drop on you you're still toast, but at least if you spot them first you can actually bring them down now, I still think planes die a lot less than anything else!
  • Xanthias

    #2
    Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

    Good thoughts. Thanks for contributing.

    I feel like support is too powerful now. I'm getting taken down by them constantly now. They needed tweaking, sure, but by the time you see them, they have already gone prone and you're already dead! I have been shot from the hip about 20 feet away by some as well. That makes no sense at all!

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    • spaceace

      #3
      Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

      I do worry about being lumped in with all the "nouveau-support" players, I used to play it mainly because nobody else seemed to want to. The PKM was deadly at medium-close range and I used to just use the pistol for anything at distance although it was still quite good at frightening people away. Being able to hit things in the distance is a welcome addition but it wasn't something I was missing pre-patch. On a side note I did some experimenting on a local and projectiles seemed to travel around 500m, on Sharqi I could consistently hit the chopper on the roof of TV from a vodnik parked on the helipad at beach. Initially I had a friend guiding the shots in, but once if you're really sad you can recognise the patterns in the clouds to find the right spot to fire at!

      I reckon a lot of players are experimenting with the new patch, hence the shedloads of snipers and support players at the mo (and the queues for the AA). Ultimately it's horses for courses, and if during the course of the game you realise you're constantly getting squicked by armour then, for example, only the most bloody minded player will stick at being a sniper. I love sniping but on a map like Daqing you feel like the kid who wasn't invited to the party!

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      • Bullit_toof

        #4
        Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

        I'm playing mostly sniper. I don't really care about points. I get far more satisfaction getting a head shot from a moving target. I've got quite good at nailing boat drivers, whilst its moving of course.

        Nice write up BTW

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        • spaceace

          #5
          Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

          Originally posted by Bullit_toof
          I'm playing mostly sniper. I don't really care about points. I get far more satisfaction getting a head shot from a moving target. I've got quite good at nailing boat drivers, whilst its moving of course.

          Nice write up BTW
          I always have a problem with boats...all that bobbing around. I think for me on the bigger maps it's a bit too much for me to take in when sniping. I can cope with a smallish window to watch, but if I've got a great big open field I can't see the wood for the trees and I start to get impatient and twitchy...

          I think half my total hours played are as sniper, there's something very satsifying about downing an unsuspecting player, probably because I know how frustrated they'll be - I'm pretty laid back but it's really annoying me when it happens to me!

          I kind of miss having to be choosy about where to put claymores and getting rid of them when I moved areas, but it's Battlield, not Tidyupafteryourself, so the patch means you don't have to spend the whole round worrying about them and getting punished for TK's by people who turned off the HUD because "it got in the way"...

          None of the kits seem to be any less fun than they were, but I know I always thought engy was a bit dull pre-patch. Most of the stuff you can't do anymore was fun for the person playing but generally annoying for everyone else. I'm old so I'm a bit dull, but when I started playing I stumbled onto a lot of the popular tactics (tubing, C4 chucking, bunny hopping etc), but when I did it just made me think "This is daft!", so I never used them. It looked even dafter when I saw them used against me...whenever I saw a fellow sniper bounicng around trying to avoid my knife I couldn't help screaming "Have some dignity and die like a man!!! If I'm going to die in the game I'm not going to die like a little girl skipping around in a ghile suit, I'll stand toe to toe with whatever weapon you've got and may the best man..."*conversation curtailed by close range nade launcher taking out me, enemy and his friend who just came round the corner*

          Apologies for those of you with short attention spans for writing so much dunno how it happens, could never manage it when I was at school

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          • Six.

            #6
            Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

            Hm... I find that they've over-nerfed the AT... I mean, a big missile like that... and for some reason- you need 4 of them to destroy 1 tank? c'mon... nowadays- anyone wanting to seriously take down heavy armor, they've either converted to engineer, or opted to camp in front of a tank spawn, hoping to get the closest thing that could realistically destroy a tank without wasting a whole 2 minutes trying to take one enemy tank down.
            I'm probably better off trying to jam the turret with paper than use the AT rockets.

            And I don't like how they've completely lopped off the arms of SpecOps when planting C4. No, I didn't agree with throwing it like a frisbee into the horizon... but give the C4 just a realistic throwing distance... what say... 3-5 metres at most; I mean, I can't hide C4 on ceilings anymore, and I can't do a passing demolitions run on an enemy vehicle anymore, I have to make sure that I'm practically hugging the vehicle before I plant the C4 on it.

            But one thing I agree on- and been the same throughout the entirety of BF2: PEOPLE NEVER CLEAR THE AREA BEFORE REVIVING! TIS VERY VERY VERY IRRITATING BEING RESURRECTED WHEN I JUST WANT TO DIE IN PEACE AND SPAWN ELSEWHERE!.

            Hm, they've nerfed airpower, but kinda boosted armour-power. Light-vehicles need 2 AT missiles now... adding to the pain of the AT man. I mourn for their demise, they are now an disused and disposed component of the game.

            Anyways Spaceace, I usually play as SpecOps-because of the G36C, accurate and decent damage. I can out-snipe snipers with it

            No worries about the load of writing you did, I've enjoyed your posts and thread very much. And this can be vital for EA to make those vital re-adjustments to SAVE THE AT GUY!

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            • spaceace

              #7
              Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

              I've had plenty of duels with g36 wielding spec-ops, both as a sniper and suport...always lots of fun. That's when the games at it's best though, small arms firefights can get really intense. People bouncing around or someone waltzing up to you with a grenade launcher to the face kind of shatters the atmosphere.

              I do kind of wish that the AT rocket was as powerful as the mounted TOW, but at the same time I enjoy the challenge of ducking around trying to take out a tank with a couple of shots. If it was one hit to kill you'd dive out, fire the shot and stand there laughing until the tank blew up. As it is you need to pick your moments and go for quick sneak attacks to make sure you finish the job.

              I have to admit I've never used C4 much, I think the jihad-jeepers and chuckers gave it a bad name so I avoided it. I'm sure people will argue otherwise, but I still can't see the skill in driving a buggy up to a tank then exploding it, normally taking yourself out in the process. Plus it knackers your score and doesn't really help the team as it's -1 ticket each. Granted you take the tank out of action for a while, but even if there's only one it'll respawn soon enough.

              In the run up and immediately post-patch I read a lot of "end of the the BF2 world!" posts from clan players and the like, but I'm sure they're all good enough to adapt. I honestly haven't seen much of a change in my experience of the game since the update, other than being shot whilst gawking at the UAV aerial courtship ritual that seems to happen so often now...

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              • Xanthias

                #8
                Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

                Originally posted by spaceace
                I honestly haven't seen much of a change in my experience of the game since the update...
                So, going from having a usual 3:1 KDR to having ALMOST a 1:1 KDR isn't a change? With the way they've souped up Support and Sniper, deaths come WAY too often and get VERY frustrating. I worked hard to get a > 1:1 KDR.

                For those that consider this a whine, think again. I may be frustrated by it, but I am adapting. I am making sure that I am with others so that we can at least have ONE of us take the guy down before he mows us all. It's like playing against the Fist of God! Uh oh...there's a Support guy...I better point and shoot at...darn...I'm dead...

                You know...on further thought...it's not so much the power and the accuracy that I'm concerned about. It's the amount of time it takes to dish out that firepower. I mean how can someone who's lugging around a 60 pound weapon jump to the ground, set up his tri-pod, aim and fire before someone who's carrying a 20 pound weapon to just point and fire? Granted, there is some latency, but it goes both ways. There should be some sort of delay between going prone and being allowed to fire.

                There...<rant off>

                I do agree that Anti-Tank is practically worthless. Was before. Is now. Plus, with their current bugs, you're taking a big chance going AT.

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                • spaceace

                  #9
                  Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

                  Originally posted by Xanthias
                  So, going from having a usual 3:1 KDR to having ALMOST a 1:1 KDR isn't a change? With the way they've souped up Support and Sniper, deaths come WAY too often and get VERY frustrating. I worked hard to get a > 1:1 KDR.

                  For those that consider this a whine, think again. I may be frustrated by it, but I am adapting. I am making sure that I am with others so that we can at least have ONE of us take the guy down before he mows us all. It's like playing against the Fist of God! Uh oh...there's a Support guy...I better point and shoot at...darn...I'm dead...
                  That's probably the difference...I never go lonewolf unless I'm sniping and always squad up with at least 2 other people. I play support a lot and tbh I though the PKM was plenty deadly enough beforehand, I'm guessing the increased prone time is partly to compensate for the accuracy boost.

                  Granted it's not much, but it's rare for a close quarters firefight to last even seconds, that extra half second or so for the support guy to get down should be enough to even the odds against a player carrying an assault weapon (rifle, carbine etc) and can rely on hitting from standing. The rest of it's down to variables like reflexes, who sees who first etc.

                  I never had a problem with AT, granted engys and spec-ops can do the job with one hit but they have to go up-close and personal. I'm a coward so I like to hit and hide :) I die a lot playing AT, but what do you expect when you're facing off a tank?

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                  • Xanthias

                    #10
                    Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

                    I rarely play Lone, but if I'm not running w/ my squad, they end up running off and going to a less-advantageous position, so leave me to do my own thing, even if I'm the SL! (I hate not playing w/ my squad...) Anyway, I do love it when I'm with my own guys, as we usually have 2 medics, 1 support. This lets me go assault instead of medic, giving me an upperhand in accuracy and firepower. I love playing medic and I LOVE the G36E, but I wish I could turn on auto-fire instead of 3 round burst only. I love being able to use it for mid-range battles, as it's deadly accurate, but I'd like the ability to do full auto so I"m not spamming my left mouse button trying to get more shots in. That usually puts off my aim due to all the clicking...

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                    • tcp1

                      #11
                      Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

                      I love the mines now. You can actually defend areas against enemy vehicles with your mines, imagine that. If you want a minefield cleared, get your wrench out or kill the guy that put them there. They are so much more effective, I do miss throwing them up on vees but I can deal with it.

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                      • spaceace

                        #12
                        Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

                        Originally posted by Xanthias
                        I rarely play Lone, but if I'm not running w/ my squad, they end up running off and going to a less-advantageous position, so leave me to do my own thing, even if I'm the SL! (I hate not playing w/ my squad...) Anyway, I do love it when I'm with my own guys, as we usually have 2 medics, 1 support. This lets me go assault instead of medic, giving me an upperhand in accuracy and firepower. I love playing medic and I LOVE the G36E, but I wish I could turn on auto-fire instead of 3 round burst only. I love being able to use it for mid-range battles, as it's deadly accurate, but I'd like the ability to do full auto so I"m not spamming my left mouse button trying to get more shots in. That usually puts off my aim due to all the clicking...
                        Yeah, I checked your stats after I posted...I have the opposite problem. I'll be following the squad, then I'll get distracted by the cheap electronics shop on Mashtuur High Street, or I'll see a big fish in a pond on Zatar. Next thing I know they've all buggered off and left me!

                        It's surprising the difference even one relatively organised squad can make. Even two players buddying up with complementary kits will usually end up near the top of the scoreboard. One thing the patch has definitely done is make lonewolfing (is that actually a verb?) a lot harder for the classes that used to be able to do it. Hopefully the upshot is that players will stick together, if only for safety at first, then realise how much fun the game is when you're running with a squad. I love it when the squad gets wiped out by a tank, then everyone respawns as AT before the flag gets capped...armourwhore to slight nuisance in one fell swoop :)

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                        • Xanthias

                          #13
                          Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

                          Originally posted by spaceace
                          One thing the patch has definitely done is make lonewolfing (is that actually a verb?) a lot harder for the classes that used to be able to do it. Hopefully the upshot is that players will stick together, if only for safety at first, then realise how much fun the game is when you're running with a squad.
                          Very well put!!:)

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                          • BlueBunny63
                            Member
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 357

                            #14
                            Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

                            Originally posted by Xanthias
                            someone who's lugging around a 60 pound weapon jump to the ground, set up his tri-pod, aim and fire before someone who's carrying a 20 pound weapon
                            More like 16 and 6, but I hear what you're saying. It's what used to drive me crazy (and still does) about the ability of support players to jump vertically... I mean, they've got a 16 pound LMG, a couple of hundred rounds of ammo, and 20 lbs of chest-vest, and *boing* they can jump three feet straight up from a stand-still, it's just ludicrous.

                            Given the way everything in the game is kinda "floaty", I think DICE really must have the gravity set too low.

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                            • Xanthias

                              #15
                              Re: (Even more!) thought's on 1.2 from an old-school gamer...

                              Oh...and I apologize. We don't refer to our "Clan" as a "Clan". We refer to it as a "Squad". This leads to confusion in my post from earlier. Let me clarify. If I use a capital S, that means my "Clan". Otherwise, it's my current squad or "Group" I'm in.:hmm:

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