A broad perspective...

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  • Paas

    #1

    A broad perspective...

    1.2 is here. Yay? I know, it has brought with it one of the largest waves of complaints and "poo-faces" known to man. Almost as if someone finally found out that complaining is the path to riches. It as been entertaining, yet, I have noticed (from playtime) that most of the complaining was unfounded.

    Truth be told, nothing has really changed. Well, maybe in the scope of Karkand (or however you spell it).. In regards to vehicle warefare though, everything remains the same.

    We could probably attribute the initial burst of moaning to ingrained tactics, or maybe the community EA founded? In the start, "Pilots" didn't really have to focus on much of anything. Their attention could be almost 100% diverted to Dogfighting one another, or bombing the Peons below. People were shocked that this wasn't that case anymore... dogfighting is dead. Their focus is lost, they cannot just flair around the skys obvlivious to the war going on below them; no... they have to get involved. Redirecting focus is the order of the day; it was lost. Now, they have focus once again..., "Bomb the living hell out of the Peons below, because their A.A. can kill you". Which leads me to sort of a passive question, "Have things really gotten better in the grand scheme of things, or has EA pulled a cloak of "functionality" of our eyes?".

    ...I mean, if you really look at the situation the ground pounders haven't progressed anywhere in terms of effectiveness against Air Assaults from "Jet" pilots; maybe helo, but not Jets. Not that I'm complaining mind you, being an Jet and Helo pilot myself. It's just that I have noticed that EA has taken it upon themselves to "punish" the ground fighters for "fixing" the Anti Air defenses... maybe I am just a loon? No.. I'm correct. The ground fighters were "gimped" for their "gain". Yet, their gain should have never been a gain to begin with... they A.A. should have been effective from the get go.

    This gimp? A.A. range. Now... I know some "Pilots" are going to freak whenever I say that, it's to be expected, but ride this out with me brothers... just ride it out. See, the fact of the matter is that in reducing the A.A. range , leathality of the device isnt' an issue. So what if it kills? I can down it before it can lock on me, and I'm able to see when it's Armed without putting myself at risk. Heck, I can engage stationary A.A. sites without having to deal with the chance of being taken out. This of course doesn't apply to mobile A.A., which is simply leathal beyound comparison. Yet, static A.A. is still as useless as it was before 1.2 ...simply because I'm able to engage "It" before it can engage "Me".

    Now I know what some pilots are thinking, " Shut up noob!? You're going to give away the secret and then EA is gunna' gimp us further!!"... well, to that I say, " Chill the hell out! Quit being a 'extremist' ". Really though, EA isn't going to adjust the A.A. again. It's as is; at least that's what my gut feeling tells me. So we are free to bomb to out hearts content as if nothing as ever changed. Yet, now ground pounders will have a completely "false" sense of ability. Just because the A.A. can connect with a Jet... works for me (Considering you will STILL be hard pressed to down and Alert/Talented Helo/Jet pilot... even in your wildest dreams; hell even I cannot do it, an I know what counter measures to expect).

    I guess the overall point I'm trying to make to everyone who fly's is, " Quit complaining! Change is bad at this point... Sure, we could get dogfighting back, but odds are an increase in static A.A. engagement ranges would come about. That's NOT good!"

    ...just sit and enjoy what we have fellas' (and what few ladies there are). It doesn't get any better than this. Ground pounders won't complain, we still get to bomb them silly.

    As for Ground Pounders... your A.A. is dominate. You should be proud

    ...to touch briefly on the Infantry aftermath of 1.2. Anti-Tank rockets are still rubbish. Somthing really needs to be done about this because playing Anti-Tank is really becoming more of a "chore" than "fun". It's a completely mandatory classification, yet, it's the most "Shafted" in regards to doing its task "Anti-Tank".

    Anti-Tankers are almost punished for doing what they should be doing. I mean, really, 5 rockets to take out one tank "Simply" because it's sitting next to a supply crate!? ...you're kidding. More than 1 "ANTI-TANK" missile to take out a Humvee!? ...a HUMMER for christ sake!? ...Hell. The onlything Anti-Tank is becoming good for is "Anti-Sniper"; which it excels at. Yet, isn't in the job description I don't think.

    EA/Dice. Ya' really need to get on the ball with this one. I hate having to compete with an SF opertor for Anti-Vehicle operations. It's really sad.

    {WP}Paas

    P.S. -...and yes, the A.A. was broken before 1.2. Anyone who claims otherwise is a fool. No, I'm not claiming it should go back to it's old ways. Don't read to deap into what I type, and take it at face value. Otherwise, you're going to just confuse yourself... and me.
  • Hu.Z_of_PLA

    #2
    Re: A broad perspective...

    In game like BF2, given similar skill, if there is a drastic differences in best KD, there is a problem.

    Before 1.12, I could pull out 70-3 in a J10, and at most 40-4 or 40-5 either in tank or as infantry. Because I practice three vehicles equally, there is a reason to think that J10 was overpowered.

    However, now jet and helicopter are perfectly balanced. Jet have to take out aerial threats and AA before bombing, or to have teammates taking out AA so jet can perform groundsupport (realistic, isn't it), and helicopters must fly low and be cautious now.

    Pilots who can't do the above will die. Granted, you may be the best flying tanker, but in RL helicopters and jets aren't flying tanks.

    Comment

    • Alcorr

      #3
      Re: A broad perspective...

      But what about HELIS!!!!

      For them to kill anything AA has plenty of time to shoot them out of the sky before they can....

      Comment

      • imported_The_Revrend

        #4
        Re: A broad perspective...

        Overall I'm very pleased with the new patch. Stationary AA still makes you a sitting target, and I'm not to happy with the low rate of file on the main gun of the USMC Anti Air Bradley. . . but the russian/chinese/mec antiair is hideously effective VS planes and choppers. . . I havnt experienced the AT Bug. . . and while it sucks to have to spend so many rounds on a tank, shoot the supply crate first. **shrugs**

        Rev

        Comment

        • Scotty

          #5
          Re: A broad perspective...

          Some common sense. I'm glad someone can see that it isn't the end of the world.

          Yes ... the AA IS more deadly now. To the pilots who just want to cruise around 50m above the ground at 50% throttle and shoot at and bomb things. Any good pilot will realize that they can stay out of range, drop flares if they screw up and still have time to get back out of range, and continue to bomb the crap out of everything below. Dogfights will probably be over quicker. Watch your six and learn some better evasive maneuvers. Again, you can drop flares and then try to evade.

          Snipers rejoice, there are now sitting ducks just waiting to be shot. Just find an AA site and hang out. They trickle in one by one. You pop them off one by one.

          Assault .... now it can be used like it should be and the GL will be a long range, harrasing and vehicle destroying weapon as it was intended.

          Things are not so bad. I'm sure everyone will learn to deal with the changes. Just use your head a little and you'll be just fine. If you just like to charge into things and complain all the time .... well, you weren't fine to begin with ... LOL

          Comment

          • Alcorr

            #6
            Re: A broad perspective...

            Ahh for the thousandth time today, people talk about how jets aren't so overpowered...so il say it again.

            WHAT ABOUT THE HELIS!

            Comment

            • Paas

              #7
              Re: A broad perspective...

              Originally posted by Hu.Z_of_PLA
              In game like BF2, given similar skill, if there is a drastic differences in best KD, there is a problem.

              Before 1.12, I could pull out 70-3 in a J10, and at most 40-4 or 40-5 either in tank or as infantry. Because I practice three vehicles equally, there is a reason to think that J10 was overpowered.

              However, now jet and helicopter are perfectly balanced. Jet have to take out aerial threats and AA before bombing, or to have teammates taking out AA so jet can perform groundsupport (realistic, isn't it), and helicopters must fly low and be cautious now.

              Pilots who can't do the above will die. Granted, you may be the best flying tanker, but in RL helicopters and jets aren't flying tanks.
              Hmmm. Static A.A. doesn't pose a threat to anyone. It has an effective arming distance of like 100m.

              I don't think anyone should be flying within' 100m of it. If you are, well that's more of a "lack of common sense" issue than a "balance" issue. Yet, honestly. I don't think A.A. is capable of stopping a good pilot still. The only "True" counter for a Jet is "STILL" a Jet... and Mobile A.A. (Which is lacking on Gulf, where it's needed the most).

              If I was a pilot who spent my time bombing, I'm sure I could pull a 100/0 KD ratio. Matter of fact, I have been at the Mercy of one such pilot on Gulf. My team was helpless to stop him, simply because he decimated every static A.A. emplacement. I just laughed wondering why people "ever" assumed that the A.A. was unbeatable... for christ's sake, it doesn't even move.

              As for me. I'm a "Helo" pilot before a "Jetty Man". Basically because I cannot master the Joystick, and I'm limited in scope somtimes when piloting a Jet with the mouse. Helo though, I'm a force to be feared... Hell, it's best not to even fact me, just run. Save yourself the time... better yet. Give me your chopper and I'll let you live :P

              No. But really, the balance is not there. Jets and Helos still dominate ground units. As long as the pilot has some type of mental capacity and common sense; or in the Helo's case, a good gunner.

              {WP}Paas

              Comment

              • Paas

                #8
                Re: A broad perspective...

                Originally posted by Alcorr
                Ahh for the thousandth time today, people talk about how jets aren't so overpowered...so il say it again.

                WHAT ABOUT THE HELIS!
                ...they have a very important job. Fly around and clean up "ALL A.A." that you see. If you do this, and do it well, your "Fly Boys" can dominate every other aspect of the map.

                Heck, they have even been known to keep enemy Jets of mah' butt. They scratch my back, I scratch their's.

                Yet, of course I'll line my random gunner up for the kill on a Tank or APC. Also, enemy Helo's aren't even competition anymore, considering the Turrets actually work against them, and I'm almost impossible to hit with a TV guided missile while flying.

                ...almost.

                {WP}Paas

                Comment

                • Alcorr

                  #9
                  Re: A broad perspective...

                  I'm almost impossible to hit with a TV guided missile while flying.

                  ...almost.
                  That reminds me, has anyone else ever shot a heli out of the air when solo flying another heli? With the TV

                  Comment

                  • Paas

                    #10
                    Re: A broad perspective...

                    Originally posted by Alcorr
                    That reminds me, has anyone else ever shot a heli out of the air when solo flying another heli? With the TV
                    I don't solo fly choppers. So... no.

                    {WP}Paas

                    Comment

                    • Chowley

                      #11
                      Re: A broad perspective...

                      Originally posted by Alcorr
                      Ahh for the thousandth time today, people talk about how jets aren't so overpowered...so il say it again.

                      WHAT ABOUT THE HELIS!
                      From my experience with it, nevermind the SAM sites, its the planes are the worry. About 3 bullets from the plane to the canopy of the heli and your gone :p. Oh and god help anyone if theres mobile AA and you dont have a gunner you know.

                      Actually coming from the other side, shooting down a chopper now your still better off with a TOW or Vodnik, the AA is overkill. They dont have a clue whats coming if you use the TOW and the machine guns take them down fast as hell.

                      Comment

                      • Paas

                        #12
                        Re: A broad perspective...

                        Originally posted by Chowley
                        From my experience with it, nevermind the SAM sites, its the planes are the worry. About 3 bullets from the plane to the canopy of the heli and your gone :p. Oh and god help anyone if theres mobile AA and you dont have a gunner you know.
                        Yeah. It's amazing how many people cannot be an effective gunner.

                        Heck, it's as simple as clicking on whatever you want the TV guided to hit. I don't ask much, just a little TV guided consistancy.

                        {WP}Paas

                        Comment

                        • Alcorr

                          #13
                          Re: A broad perspective...

                          Yeah. It's amazing how many people cannot be an effective gunner.

                          Heck, it's as simple as clicking on whatever you want the TV guided to hit. I don't ask much, just a little TV guided consistancy.
                          Oh man I feel yah!

                          I mean I line up perfect shots every time and the gunner shoots his puny little cannon at the tank...ughh.

                          Comment

                          • <EsP>Fury

                            #14
                            Re: A broad perspective...

                            Originally posted by Alcorr
                            That reminds me, has anyone else ever shot a heli out of the air when solo flying another heli? With the TV
                            Yes it has happend to me a guy in the -=9th=- clan don't remember his name he could do that in a Cobra.

                            He did it twice to me I must admit the guy or gal is leathal in that cobra. First time he hit me from a distance second time I saw him switch could not beleive my eys but I did adapt to him. Stoped going up alone in my mi 28 had to sneak up on him my gunner and I took him out 4 times and then squad took the tv station so that finished him. This was pre 1.2 by the way.

                            Alcorr I was up in the air last night yes it is alot more work you must know where every aa is and use the terran mountains and buildings are your friends. You cannot go up without a gunner and you must be on comms with him or her to spot targets for them. You must use the Attack helo as a hit and run weapon hang around to long and you are dead meat. My clan mates were a great help as well they would keep taking out the aa sites. Dont get me wrong I feel your pain too i got my butt handed to me more times last night than before the patch. But we must adapt I know on some maps that may not be possible but we still have to try.

                            Getting back to the patch the problem I have with it is the Red/Blue bug still there server crash in SF on night maps that have hummer with a tow on them fire the tow and the server can go down. Some no sound and animation issues. I have noticed the game uses more memory now than before the 1.2 patch. They should IMHO fix these types of issuses first and then address any game play tweaks such as tweaking weapon strength and accuracy. I have said before the 1.2 patch is a mixed bag.

                            Will I stop playing NO Do things still need fixing YES.

                            Will I buy Euro Force I week ago I would have said hell yes now I may wait till I see what EA/Dice will do

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