The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

[ConscriptVirus]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

actually if u think about ti..theyre right...take a light pistol and a heavy machine gun and see which one u can hold up longer...and by 10 min...the arm with the hmg will be shaking of weakness

[Eddy01741]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

actually if u think about ti..theyre right...take a light pistol and a heavy machine gun and see which one u can hold up longer...and by 10 min...the arm with the hmg will be shaking of weakness

Ya, but it doesn't matter, cause one shot from a LMG should be actually as accurate or more accurate than one from an AR, cause it has a heavier, longer barrel and fires the same round. While a shot from a pistol is EXTREMELY hard to aim at anything longer than short distance. A LMG on a bipod if u think about it is a devasting weapon, with accuracy, and power. ANyways, u like can't use a pistol for 10 minutes straight without running outta ammo ( i doubt troops have like 20 extra mags) or totally destroying the barrel.

[SQUiB]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

The only reason a M16 should have better accuracy than a G3 is cause of recoil from the larger bullte. The G3 is probably actually much more accurate as the larger bullet has more momentum. The G3 also has a longer, heavier barrel, which also makes it more accurate.

Actually the M16 has a longer barrel than the G3 by 58mm and it's highly accurate, which is why it is such a good rifle, and is still in use so long after it was first built. The effective range of the M16 is 550m compared to the 400m of the G3. Not quite sure how you think more momentum makes a bullet more accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_G3SG/1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16

[SK]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

-barrel length is just one factor in determining a gun´s accuracy, and by no means the only one. Manufacturing tolerances, barrel quality, ammo, sights etc. all play a role.
-while it is true that LMGs have a heavier barrel they generally shoot from the open bolt position, and are "optimized" for sustained fire, which is detrimental to accuracy in some respects.
-just because some websites say that the "effective range" of the M16 is 550m and that of the G3 is 400m doesn´t mean that this is the truth. Here a lot of factors play a role as well, generally the 7.62 NATO round has higher range and effectiveness, which is the reason why you see more M14s used again as DMRs by US Forces.

[Eddy01741]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

-barrel length is just one factor in determining a gun´s accuracy, and by no means the only one. Manufacturing tolerances, barrel quality, ammo, sights etc. all play a role.
-while it is true that LMGs have a heavier barrel they generally shoot from the open bolt position, and are "optimized" for sustained fire, which is detrimental to accuracy in some respects.
-just because some websites say that the "effective range" of the M16 is 550m and that of the G3 is 400m doesn´t mean that this is the truth. Here a lot of factors play a role as well, generally the 7.62 NATO round has higher range and effectiveness, which is the reason why you see more M14s used again as DMRs by US Forces.

Exactly, also, why don't sniper rifles use 5.56 rounds. Cause 7.62 rounds have more momentum which makes it have the ability to effectively hit farther targets.

[Solid Snake.pt]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

Actually the M16 has a longer barrel than the G3 by 58mm and it's highly accurate, which is why it is such a good rifle, and is still in use so long after it was first built. The effective range of the M16 is 550m compared to the 400m of the G3. Not quite sure how you think more momentum makes a bullet more accurate.

In turn, the 5.56 x 45mm SS109 round is rather known to lose its power over distance and deviates more easily than it's 'fatty' predecessor. This deviation alone is a result of the loss of momentum over distance, along with other factors (wind, humidity, etc.). The 7.62 x 51mm NATO is the standard when it comes to sniper rifles for some reason.

The more momentum, the straighter it'll fly, the harder it'll deviate from your target. Hence, the association between momentum and accuracy.

[Eddy01741]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

In turn, the 5.56 x 45mm SS109 round is rather known to lose its power over distance and deviates more easily than it's 'fatty' predecessor. This deviation alone is a result of the loss of momentum over distance, along with other factors (wind, humidity, etc.). The 7.62 x 51mm NATO is the standard when it comes to sniper rifles for some reason.

The more momentum, the straighter it'll fly, the harder it'll deviate from your target. Hence, the association between momentum and accuracy.

Exactly, thank u Solid Snake.

[Jones[31stMEU]]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

The only reason a M16 should have better accuracy than a G3 is cause of recoil from the larger bullte. The G3 is probably actually much more accurate as the larger bullet has more momentum. The G3 also has a longer, heavier barrel, which also makes it more accurate. Weapons like the G3, M14, and teh FAL arn't used anymore because they were made like rifles (not assault rifles). They are basically, rifles with more ammo, and the ABILITY to fire full auto for CQC. On the other hand, the AK-47 is basically a machinegun withthe ABILITY to go single shot. Right now, gun makers have found the right blend between the two. The G3 should be more accurate than almost all weapons in game now (sniper rifles are the only ones more accurate).

Sorry fella, but due to the fact that the G3 fires a 7.62 MM round as opposed to teh 5.56 MM round an M16 fires, a G3 would never be more accurate. A 7.62 round produces a recoil much more vicious than a 5.56 round and thats just how it is. My buddy owns an M-4(bushmaster) and his cop buddy owns an M-4(Colt) and a G36c. Trust me on Semi, the M-4 is way more accurate. But thats not BF2 thats reality.

[Retribution.]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

With the current weapons I agree. It is suppose to change in the new patch though. Then the real guns will get some real accuracy (hopefully)..

please let it be so, please let it be so!

*prays*

[Eddy01741]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

Sorry fella, but due to the fact that the G3 fires a 7.62 MM round as opposed to teh 5.56 MM round an M16 fires, a G3 would never be more accurate. A 7.62 round produces a recoil much more vicious than a 5.56 round and thats just how it is. My buddy owns an M-4(bushmaster) and his cop buddy owns an M-4(Colt) and a G36c. Trust me on Semi, the M-4 is way more accurate. But thats not BF2 thats reality.

Um, dude, u must be biased or something, wh do sniper rounds use 7.62 rounds eh? I mean, in automatic fire, it's OBVIOUS a round like 5.56 is gonna be more accurate cause of less recoil. But i mean seriously, on single shot, a G3 will most likely be more accurate than a M16. I never inplied that i was talking about for automatic fire, i actually shoulda been more precise and said that that was for semi auto. A 7.62 round has more accuracy at longer ranges, as well as less bullet drop as the larger bullet has more momentum.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

why do they make 12.7mm sniper rifle but not 9mm pistol round sniper rifle (VSS is 9mmx19, doesn't count)

accuracy.

[SK]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

Ahem, bullet drop only has to do with momentum indirectly. The key factor for bullet drop is flight time, as 5.56 ammo has a higher V0 it has a flatter trajectory at first, the bullet slows down faster than 7.62 though, can´t remember off the top off my head at which distance 7.62 "overtakes" 5.56.

A 7.62 round produces a recoil much more vicious than a 5.56 round and thats just how it is.

By this logic 5.56 from an M16 would have to be more accurate than for example a dedicated sniper rifle chambered for .338 Lapua Mag. This obviously is not the case, recoil isn´t necessarily a huge factor for accuracy, depending on gun and training of the shooter.

[Eddy01741]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

Ahem, bullet drop only has to do with momentum indirectly. The key factor for bullet drop is flight time, as 5.56 ammo has a higher V0 it has a flatter trajectory at first, the bullet slows down faster than 7.62 though, can´t remember off the top off my head at which distance 7.62 "overtakes" 5.56.


By this logic 5.56 from an M16 would have to be more accurate than for example a dedicated sniper rifle chambered for .338 Lapua Mag. This obviously is not the case, recoil isn´t necessarily a huge factor for accuracy, depending on gun and training of the shooter.

Wow, u seem to know a lot about guns man :) . I havn't heard of the Lapua round since i played CS (the AWP had it in there).

[SQUiB]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

I do know and understand all of the things that you guys have posted about ammuntion and you are mostly correct. But what you have missed is the fact that at the ranges we are talking about the bullet is not a significant factor in overall accuracy. The gun that it has been fired from is far more important.

Now about momentum.
More momentum does NOT reduce bullet drop. All bullets fall at the same speed so bullet drop is determined by the speed of the bullet. The less time a bullet takes to reach a target the less it will have dropped. Here is how you seem to have been confused. A bullet with more momentum takes more wind resistance to slow it down. Since a 7.62 round is only marginally wider, creating marginally more wind resistance, but has significantly more mass than the 5.56 round it won't slow down as quickly. This means at long ranges it will actually be going faster than the 5.56 round. That is why it is used in sniper rifles because it will have reduced bullet drop and wind shear at long ranges (also does more damage with a single hit).

Now if you made sense of all that, yes a 7.62 round is more accurate at long ranges but our argument isn't about long range. The M16 is still a more accurate rifle than the G3 even though it fires a less accurate bullet. The G3 is simply not an accurate enough rilfe to take full advantage of firing the more accurate round.

[Eddy01741]

Re: The DICE way of treating gun accuracy

I do know and understand all of the things that you guys have posted about ammuntion and you are mostly correct. But what you have missed is the fact that at the ranges we are talking about the bullet is not a significant factor in overall accuracy. The gun that it has been fired from is far more important.

Now about momentum.
More momentum does NOT reduce bullet drop. All bullets fall at the same speed so bullet drop is determined by the speed of the bullet. The less time a bullet takes to reach a target the less it will have dropped. Here is how you seem to have been confused. A bullet with more momentum takes more wind resistance to slow it down. Since a 7.62 round is only marginally wider, creating marginally more wind resistance, but has significantly more mass than the 5.56 round it won't slow down as quickly. This means at long ranges it will actually be going faster than the 5.56 round. That is why it is used in sniper rifles because it will have reduced bullet drop and wind shear at long ranges (also does more damage with a single hit).

Now if you made sense of all that, yes a 7.62 round is more accurate at long ranges but our argument isn't about long range. The M16 is still a more accurate rifle than the G3 even though it fires a less accurate bullet. The G3 is simply not an accurate enough rilfe to take full advantage of firing the more accurate round.

Interesting, wow, today, just from this thread i've learned a lot about bullets (really, not sarcastic). ANyways, yeah, teh M16 overall is one of the most accurate assault rifles, but definetly not a good possible platform for a sniper rifle, the G3 is a pretty good one though. As the G3 SG-1 (predecessor to PSG-1), PSG-1 (a semi-auto sniper rifle with better accuracy than the M24, and the M95, as it has a sub-1 MOA accuracy rating), and the MSG-90 (military export version of the PSG-1). ANyways, u seem to know a lot about bullets as well.