To the "Moral" Player

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  • TAW_Ender

    #1

    To the "Moral" Player

    Let me outline a premise, which I have thought long and hard about:

    As a player, you have absolutely no right to criticize another a person's style of play. You have every right to criticize a flawed game, but not how someone chooses to play it.

    If you choose to abstain from bunny-hoping, or any other tactic that's labeled "unrealistic", within a game engine that was never intended for "realism", then BRAVO!

    But please, keep your self-righteous indignation to yourself.

    There are three types of players within this community:

    1. The first plays the game as is. They may complain about a certain tactic, or a certain imbalance, but largely this sort of player could care less. This is perhaps the category into which the greatest number of players falls.

    2. The second chooses to criticize the game for its lack of realism, not only making the questionable assumption that Battlefield was intended to be realistic, but also assuming that reality is a viable premise from which to base game design!

    A minority of these players goes on to criticize others for using tactics such as "dolphin-diving" - as if the PLAYER is to blame the the DEVELOPER'S inclusion of what EA themselves labels a "feature"!

    As is evident in these boards, some denounce and persecute them with almost religious fervency. At times, one can only smile at the hilarity of it all!

    Ironically, what these gamers fail to realize is that with every negative post and negative comment they do nothing but breed contempt where it should not exist.

    Their frustration is caused no one but themselves, and they are ultimately just as detrimental to the community as the players they criticize.

    You are the "purist", the "moral" player.

    3. But there are a third sort of player, those such as myself, who approach the game with an amoral eye. The competition player does not handicap himself, because he knows his opponent will show him no such courtesy. These players work to gain a competitive edge within the game, and are willing to use any tactic to achieve it.

    I challenge you to find one logical basis on which to tell ME how to play the game.

    (No, "realism" and your personal enjoyment don't count.)

    Because there is no premise besides the two above-mentioned fallacies, I'll start with a simple outline of why Battlefield 2, in its current form, necessitates the use of dolphin diving for competitive play.

    1. Weak, inaccurate weapons make the grenade launcher, rocket launcher, and C4 Frisbee often better at eliminating infantry than a standard rifle. (I have a 2:1 KDR with the Assault Rifle, which is likely more than 80% of players on this board. Don't bother me telling me I have poor aim.)

    It just so happens that all of the above mentioned weapons are even more deadly when combined with dolphin diving. Any competitive player knows this.

    Additionally, the above-mentioned weapons allow a single player to eliminate multiple targets. Either as a primary or secondary solution. With only a rifle, it is often impossible to quickly eliminate two targets at range due to bullet deviation.

    2. Weak, ineffective anti-tank weapons make dolphin-diving invaluable to the player who wishes to evade or engage armored vehicles.

    3. Players who take the AT kit often receive no points for destroying vehicles, and are at a liability at close range. Dolphin-diving at close range is the only way to effectively kill another play with the sub-machine gun.

    As you see, the flaws within the game necessitate dolphin-diving. Players do not use it to "grief" you, they use it because it is the most effective tactic available to them within the game engine. If rifles were more effective, or the hit-detection simply less spotty, resorting to other tactics wouldn’t be as essential.

    I for one am looking forward to the patch, as I too would like to see a slower, more tactically oriented game. I hate infantry combat in its current state, as I find the most satisfying kills come from the use of my rifle’s iron-sights. But as long as my opponent is able to use these tactics, it would be moronic to handicap myself.

    More importantly, no player has any right to tell me, or anyone else, what tactics I'm allowed to use.

    And, yes, the top clans WILL still be TOP once the game is patched. They're the best not because they bunny-hop, but because they're willing to explore the game without the pretension of the "purists".

    Judge the tactic; judge the game, but never the player. To do so can only be described as juvenile. It creates only contempt and resentment within what should be an enjoyable pastime.

    I would then propose to the moderators of this forum that threads, which attack players for using legitimate tactics within the game engine, be instantly locked.

    Proper threads should focus on the flaw within the game, with suggestions as to how to fix them.

    Feel free to comment, but I ask you show the same respect that I've tried to. I'm prone to frustration just as much as next player.
  • Digital-Boy

    #2
    Re: To the "Moral" Player

    Maybe it's juvenille to bitch and moan about these features in a game, but I think that bunny-hopping, dolphin diving, and insta-proning (to a lesser extent) are themselves detrimental to gameplay. And how is "my personal enjoyment" not a legitimate factor? This is a game right, so if the majority of the population finds something to be "un-fun," what's so bad about wanting it changed?

    Originally posted by topic creator
    Judge the tactic; judge the game, but never the player. To do so can only be described as juvenile.
    Yeah, I can maybe agree with that. No sense in taking things to a personal level.

    Comment

    • TAW_Ender

      #3
      Re: To the "Moral" Player

      Originally posted by 2000sDigitalBoy
      Maybe it's juvenille to bitch and moan about these features in a game, but I think that bunny-hopping, dolphin diving, and insta-proning (to a lesser extent) are themselves detrimental to gameplay. And how is "my personal enjoyment" not a legitimate factor? This is a game right, so if the majority of the population finds something to be "un-fun," what's so bad about wanting it changed?
      Once more, my point is not that you aren't entitled to criticize the game, but you have no right to make remarks towards a player for employing tactics the game allows.

      Comment

      • Digital-Boy

        #4
        Re: To the "Moral" Player

        Originally posted by TAW_Ender
        Once more, my point is not that you aren't entitled to criticize the game, but you have no right to make remarks towards a player for employing tactics the game allows.
        I realize that now. You see, I kind of skim-read through it and didn't really pick up the message. *whoops*

        Comment

        • Ruhanga

          #5
          Re: To the "Moral" Player

          I was going to make this kind of thread too, but I was too lazy to make it. I agree wiht everything you said.

          Do you read sirlin's articles too?

          Comment

          • =GzR=Damager

            #6
            Re: To the "Moral" Player

            Ender,
            It is apparent you are an adult with a mature attitude .. lest we forget the majority of the players that whine are simply children .. bad attitudes and all .. it is their insecurity within themselves that they show when they whine ... nothing more

            Comment

            • imported_The 13th Raptor

              #7
              Re: To the "Moral" Player

              No one has the right to tell some-one else how to play.

              However, tactics such as point blank m203 use, prone jumping, repeated jumping while reloading, pixel aimed AT weapons are frowned upon for a very good reason..

              They ruin the feel of the game, this concept might be alien to "winning means everything" type players. But it is a valid complaint and shouldnt be dismissed.

              How much fun would call of duty 2 be if the germans could jump 12 feet into the air and the allies had 30round automatic grenade launchers?

              Comment

              • A_Dirty_Hippie
                Member
                • Apr 2006
                • 145

                #8
                Re: To the "Moral" Player

                Amen. Glad to see more posts from the real fans of the Battlefield Series. All to often are you shouted down by the vocal minority. The best players will always be the best players beceause they spend thier time playing.

                Comment

                • CtrlAltDe1337
                  Member
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 1431

                  #9
                  Re: To the "Moral" Player

                  Let me outline a premise, which I have thought long and hard about:

                  As a player, you have absolutely no right to criticize another a person's style of play. You have every right to criticize a flawed game, but not how someone chooses to play it.

                  If you choose to abstain from bunny-hoping, or any other tactic that's labeled "unrealistic", within a game engine that was never intended for "realism", then BRAVO!

                  But please, keep your self-righteous indignation to yourself.

                  There are three types of players within this community:

                  1. The first plays the game as is. They may complain about a certain tactic, or a certain imbalance, but largely this sort of player could care less. This is perhaps the category into which the greatest number of players falls.

                  2. The second chooses to criticize the game for its lack of realism, not only making the questionable assumption that Battlefield was intended to be realistic, but also assuming that reality is a viable premise from which to base game design!

                  A minority of these players goes on to criticize others for using tactics such as "dolphin-diving" - as if the PLAYER is to blame the the DEVELOPER'S inclusion of what EA themselves labels a "feature"!

                  As is evident in these boards, some denounce and persecute them with almost religious fervency. At times, one can only smile at the hilarity of it all!

                  Ironically, what these gamers fail to realize is that with every negative post and negative comment they do nothing but breed contempt where it should not exist.

                  Their frustration is caused no one but themselves, and they are ultimately just as detrimental to the community as the players they criticize.

                  You are the "purist", the "moral" player.

                  3. But there are a third sort of player, those such as myself, who approach the game with an amoral eye. The competition player does not handicap himself, because he knows his opponent will show him no such courtesy. These players work to gain a competitive edge within the game, and are willing to use any tactic to achieve it.

                  I challenge you to find one logical basis on which to tell ME how to play the game.

                  (No, "realism" and your personal enjoyment don't count.)

                  Because there is no premise besides the two above-mentioned fallacies, I'll start with a simple outline of why Battlefield 2, in its current form, necessitates the use of dolphin diving for competitive play.

                  1. Weak, inaccurate weapons make the grenade launcher, rocket launcher, and C4 Frisbee often better at eliminating infantry than a standard rifle. (I have a 2:1 KDR with the Assault Rifle, which is likely more than 80% of players on this board. Don't bother me telling me I have poor aim.)

                  It just so happens that all of the above mentioned weapons are even more deadly when combined with dolphin diving. Any competitive player knows this.

                  Additionally, the above-mentioned weapons allow a single player to eliminate multiple targets. Either as a primary or secondary solution. With only a rifle, it is often impossible to quickly eliminate two targets at range due to bullet deviation.

                  2. Weak, ineffective anti-tank weapons make dolphin-diving invaluable to the player who wishes to evade or engage armored vehicles.

                  3. Players who take the AT kit often receive no points for destroying vehicles, and are at a liability at close range. Dolphin-diving at close range is the only way to effectively kill another play with the sub-machine gun.

                  As you see, the flaws within the game necessitate dolphin-diving. Players do not use it to "grief" you, they use it because it is the most effective tactic available to them within the game engine. If rifles were more effective, or the hit-detection simply less spotty, resorting to other tactics wouldn’t be as essential.

                  I for one am looking forward to the patch, as I too would like to see a slower, more tactically oriented game. I hate infantry combat in its current state, as I find the most satisfying kills come from the use of my rifle’s iron-sights. But as long as my opponent is able to use these tactics, it would be moronic to handicap myself.

                  More importantly, no player has any right to tell me, or anyone else, what tactics I'm allowed to use.

                  And, yes, the top clans WILL still be TOP once the game is patched. They're the best not because they bunny-hop, but because they're willing to explore the game without the pretension of the "purists".

                  Judge the tactic; judge the game, but never the player. To do so can only be described as juvenile. It creates only contempt and resentment within what should be an enjoyable pastime.

                  I would then propose to the moderators of this forum that threads, which attack players for using legitimate tactics within the game engine, be instantly locked.

                  Proper threads should focus on the flaw within the game, with suggestions as to how to fix them.

                  Feel free to comment, but I ask you show the same respect that I've tried to. I'm prone to frustration just as much as next player.

                  I agree mostly, but how does 'moral' and 'amoral' have to do with a video game? lol


                  Ender,
                  It is apparent you are an adult with a mature attitude .. lest we forget the majority of the players that whine are simply children .. bad attitudes and all .. it is their insecurity within themselves that they show when they whine ... nothing more
                  Actually I have found it to be the opposite, most ppl who whine about 203 n00bs and prone jumping are ex-military people and those who thought BF2 would be geared towards realism.

                  Comment

                  • BIFF EXPLODER
                    Member
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 1136

                    #10
                    Re: To the "Moral" Player

                    i agree with the starter of the thread, too much ppl complain about the way others play, and most of the time they complain just because they dont like beeing killed, not because its unrealistic or anything like that, that is just to cover their real reason wich is ... beeing killed.

                    i dont care about bunny hopping cause i use a shotgun most of my time, and because of so much ppl complaining (wich were not the majority, their luck is that the majority doesnt even care or go to forums so the developers only hear what they have to say), because of so much ppl complaining now they are going to take the shooting while jumping away, wich is a very bad idea and there were better ways to control the bunny hopping like the stamina thing.

                    so the ppl that complain about other players are actually ruinning the game indirectly.

                    dont flame me or anything i'm just giving an oppinion here :)

                    Comment

                    • Arkasha

                      #11
                      Re: To the "Moral" Player

                      I totally disagree with your premise. As a player, I most certainly have the right to comment on another player's gaming, especially if it has a negative effect on my (reasonable) enjoyment of the game.

                      You want a logical basis? Think about this: a multiplayer game must provide (reasonable) enjoyment for all its players. They are all invested in the game, not just you. If you do something that I and many others find unacceptable, then it is our right to comment and complain.

                      Perfect case in point: if I buy this game and log on and tk and tk and tk over and over, deliberately, then what would happen? Other players would call for my being booted. But wait, I say! Don't I have the right to play as I like? Nope, because my enjoyment does not take precedence over other players'. If enough players find my conduct disrupts their play, their right is greater than mine.

                      If you like to dive, fine -- do it with like-minded players on your own servers, no loss to anyone. But now that EA is apparently ruling that type of play is not allowed, it's disingenuous to go on about your "right" to do something that will be disallowed.

                      And by the way? If you're going to call for a cessation on attacks, you should attend to your own post. Phrases like "self-righteous" come to mind.

                      Comment

                      • raceacontari

                        #12
                        Re: To the "Moral" Player

                        I have the right to critisize my friend, he's a moron! I was watching him play a few days ago, lets see....he was in a tank, and missed an enemy tank that was about 20 feet in front of him; he hit the building to the tanks right instead. When driving a car and I told him to turn right, as there was the last badguy on the map to his right, he turned left. Upon reversing and going forward again, he turned left again at the next turn. Lol. So I can make fun of him all I want :p

                        Comment

                        • wbcninjaofmist

                          #13
                          Re: To the "Moral" Player

                          I totally agree with the topic poster, But I believe the players complain because they feel the enemy tactics uneven the battlefield , and since they are unable to adapt or compete this uneven battlefield tips in the enemy favor>

                          I stated this yesterday:

                          [\quote]
                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by zacman13245
                          the smart player will dolphin dive and bunny hop.... the good player wont....
                          [/quote]

                          And the "good player" is relative. What anyone suggests is a good player would be a matter of opinion, which is understandable. BUT, Im sure you would agree that the smart player takes all measures humanly possible to stay alive and defeat the enemy. Not behave only if his actions are considered "good" by the enemy.
                          One point im trying to make is that the SMART player does not worry about what opinion the enemy has of him "good" or "Bad" or . The smart player puts the enemy down with the opinions beside him while he captures that enemies flag.

                          The entirety of what im saying in that thread above is that players on the in game battlefield have begun to (instead of adapt and compete) , complain about the enemy’s "inferior skills" or "nooblike methods" when infact they are merely broadcasting their inefficiencies or inability to cope/ adapt and compete.

                          1 Example: Ill say this now since the bunny hopping will probably be discontinued soon.
                          1 way I adapted to the bunny hopping/ diving "Since its the point of topic right now" is by Not panicking, and shooting all over like mad....Which is probably one of the instincts of those actually "unskilled" players, who complain "the enemy is not good enough, while masking their own inefficiency, instead of adapting to the enemy. I only shoot at the enemy’s head/torso when the enemy has reached the height of his jump and when his feet have met the ground. ( Why>? Because no matter how erratic the bunny hopper's movements and his jumps there is ultimately 2 directions he will undoubtedly go. 1 is up , the other is obviously down. ) This almost always ends with the bunny hopping enemy sent on a 15 second vacation to spawn land, OR the bunny hopping player usually panics. When the bunny hopping, "THEIR way of adapting to the enemy" begins to prove ineffective. They turn to run which obviously is the worst thing to do in their position.[/quote]

                          Comment

                          • A_Dirty_Hippie
                            Member
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 145

                            #14
                            Re: To the "Moral" Player

                            Originally posted by The 13th Raptor
                            You have no proof that "we", are the minority. People who play for fun are not inferior to those whom play to be the best.
                            At any given time there are more people playing the game then those complaining about it. I would even be willing to bet there are less people complaining about it than not out of the registered users on this forum. I never said anyone was inferior to anyone else. Since when is playing to be the best mean you can't have fun. To alot of people playing to be the best is fun.

                            Comment

                            • JarEme

                              #15
                              Re: To the "Moral" Player

                              Originally posted by VeNg3nCe^
                              Actually I have found it to be the opposite, most ppl who whine about 203 n00bs and prone jumping are ex-military people and those who thought BF2 would be geared towards realism.
                              Agreed. It isn't kids, but people looking for a simulation where there is supposed to be an action game.

                              Comment

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