Russian Weapons - Disappointment

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  • H1gh-Veloc1ty

    #1

    Russian Weapons - Disappointment

    I'm disappointed with EA's lack of research (into many other areas as well) in Russian special forces weapons. The Russians are making some noteworthy breakthroughs in small arms development - especially 2 stage auto configurations and recoil control using counter balancing pistons. I think that the Russians have quite a few improvements in small arms that makes its U.S. counterparts look like it's behind the curve. These weapons make the FN SCAR program look rather boring.

    AN-94 Abakan
    Firstly, the Russian Special forces are using the AN-94 which is like no other rifle in the world (excerpt from http://world.guns.ru/assault/as08-e.htm)

    The key improvement of the AN-94 over the AK-74 is the introduction of the 2-rounds burst mode, added to the standard single shots and full auto mode. The two rounds bursts are fired at very high rate of fire, and a trained shooter can make a single hole in the target at 100 meters in this mode. This allows for significant increase in lethality, stopping power and body armour penetration over the single shot mode, with the same "single shot" accuracy. The full auto mode of AN-94 consists of the two stages - first two rounds are fired in the "high rate" fire, and the remaining rounds are fired in low rate of fire, until the trigger is released or the magazine is emptied. In the single shots or the full auto mode, there's no significant advantages over the AK-74. At this point, one can ask "is all this complication of the AN-94 mechanism worth the achieved results"? From my point of view, there's no simple answer. The trained professional warrior can use the 2-rounds burst capability of AN-94 to the great degree of success, but prior to this, a lot of time and resources should be spent to train this professional soldier to use AN-94 effectively.

    AEK-971's Counter Recoil Pistons
    Kalashnikov's son developed this rifle which is purportedly highly controllable under full automatic fire - this is made possible by having two pistons one to direct the bolt and the other to counter the effects of recoil. Not sure if this is necessary if you have a rifle that already has a lower rate of fire which also makes firing full auto more controllable and accurate - like the SCAR which is puportedly quite controllable under full auto. But this solution is quite interesting nonetheless.

    An excerpt:
    Key feature of the AEK971 is gas driven, balanced action with rotating bolt barrel locking. Balancing mean that AEK971 gas drive has two gas chambers and two gas pistons. First gas piston is linked wia gas rod to the bolt carrier an moves as usual. Second gas piston is linked to the balancing msteel weight and moves in opposite (to main gas piston) direction. This design is implemented to eliminate 3 of 4 total impulces of the movement that affect rifle during the full-auto fire. 1st impulse rifle received when bullet moves along the barrel - this is recoil itself. Second impulse rifle received when heavy bolt carrier/bolt group moves along the receiver back and forth. Third impulse is received when bolt carrier/bolt group stops in the rear position and fourth - when this group stops in forward position after new cartridge is chambered. Synchronous and opposite movement of the balancing weight eliminates all except the recoil impulse, so rifle becomes far more stable during full-auto fire.
    The gain of accuracy in full auto is whole 15-20%, when compared to AK-74 asault rifle in the same kaliber. The newly adopted by Russian army AN-94 assault rifle has slight edge over the AEK974 only in short burst (2 rounds only) mode. In full-auto medium or long bursrt fire mode (3-5 or 7-10 rounds per burst) AEK974 wins hands down, being also some 0.5kg lighter than AN-94, simplier and cheaper to manufacture.

    More info on the AEK-971 - http://world.guns.ru/assault/as34-e.htm

    Wish EA did it's homework and offered these two weapons for Spetsnatz - would've been interesting. What's wrong with them?
  • TITAN126

    #2
    Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

    I was really disappointed that they didn't have the VSS. It was in DC, and it was pretty awesome then.

    Comment

    • H1gh-Veloc1ty

      #3
      Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

      Here is another great link on cutting edge Spetsnatz small arms:



      Note the Spetsnatz M-95 equivalent and the new SVD mods. Also the AEK-97 and AN-94.

      Comment

      • FM_Echo_One

        #4
        Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

        Yeah, blame EA. We know they developed the game...*cough* DICE *cough*

        Comment

        • H1gh-Veloc1ty

          #5
          Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

          Video of Spetsnatz operator showing of his skillz with the Abakan:

          Comment

          • Alcorr

            #6
            Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

            Personally, if you ask me, the easiest thing to add to BF2/SF would be new weapons, all it is is a bit of artwork and some lines of code, not anywhere near as hard as making new vehicles and maps like they did for SF. I mean if you can make a bunch of maps and new vehicles, why can't you give rebels/insurgents/Spetz unique guns?

            Yeah I was disappointed as well, thats why in alot of cases if the teams are even, SAS/US forces win most rounds.

            Comment

            • ZAGOR

              #7
              Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

              Just a stupid idea:what about if they free up the weapons?
              What I mean is that you could choose any weapons you want regardeless of your kit or nationality.

              EX: snipers could choose either SVD,M24,ecc...depending on preference and deployment.
              What about if I wanna be Special Ops,but I wanna use a shotgun instead M4 because in Karkand I like it better but dont want to give up c4?
              AT with M16,Engineers with DAO,medics with SCAR..and so on.....

              BAD idea?

              Comment

              • [DBD]crowfoot
                Member
                • Sep 2007
                • 320

                #8
                Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

                good idea.

                Comment

                • H1gh-Veloc1ty

                  #9
                  Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

                  Originally posted by ZAGOR
                  Just a stupid idea:what about if they free up the weapons?
                  What I mean is that you could choose any weapons you want regardeless of your kit or nationality.

                  EX: snipers could choose either SVD,M24,ecc...depending on preference and deployment.
                  What about if I wanna be Special Ops,but I wanna use a shotgun instead M4 because in Karkand I like it better but dont want to give up c4?
                  AT with M16,Engineers with DAO,medics with SCAR..and so on.....

                  BAD idea?
                  Not a bad idea at all - since operators can choose any weapon they pretty much want into combat. Special forces armories pretty much have exhuastive collection of weapons.

                  One of my goods friends was a green beret in Nam. He opted for the AK-47 when on patrol. When he was serving in the African theater he used the G3 quite exclusively. In a lot of the cases, special operators prefer weapons that are standard issue for the enemy in enemy territory (especially if they are conducting deep covert missions) - because NATO casings left behind automatically signal U.S. involvement.

                  Comment

                  • ICPO

                    #10
                    Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

                    Very good idea.

                    Comment

                    • Sir. Shpox

                      #11
                      Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

                      I was extreamly dissapointed. MEC, Rebels and Russian all have the same bloody weapons. It was an extreme dissapointment for the russian considering they could have chosen thousands of weapons...

                      Comment

                      • afrosheen

                        #12
                        Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

                        In a lot of the cases, special operators prefer weapons that are standard issue for the enemy in enemy territory (especially if they are conducting deep covert missions) - because NATO casings left behind automatically signal U.S. involvement.

                        Well, that's part of the reason, but the main reason is ammo availability. If you're in a deep covert mission, you want to go in lightly armed and grab whatever you can find. If the enemy is using AK47's, when you show up with one and it gets damaged/runs out of ammo, just take a guy out and grab his for parts and ammo. Plus the spent shells match the enemy's and the gunfire sounds identical.

                        Comment

                        • H1gh-Veloc1ty

                          #13
                          Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

                          Originally posted by shpox
                          I was extreamly dissapointed. MEC, Rebels and Russian all have the same bloody weapons. It was an extreme dissapointment for the russian considering they could have chosen thousands of weapons...
                          Yes - Russian Spec ops are using the AN-94s, AK-74s, VSS, and AK-74su with silencers - the Chechynian Insurgents are probably just using plain jane AKMs.

                          Comment

                          • Grey Fox

                            #14
                            Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

                            Originally posted by afrosheen
                            Well, that's part of the reason, but the main reason is ammo availability. If you're in a deep covert mission, you want to go in lightly armed and grab whatever you can find. If the enemy is using AK47's, when you show up with one and it gets damaged/runs out of ammo, just take a guy out and grab his for parts and ammo. Plus the spent shells match the enemy's and the gunfire sounds identical.
                            + every weapon make distinctive sounds and if you use the enemies weapons then he won't know if it is you or his side that is firing if he can't see you.

                            Comment

                            • Eddy01741

                              #15
                              Re: Russian Weapons - Disappointment

                              Originally posted by ZAGOR
                              Just a stupid idea:what about if they free up the weapons?
                              What I mean is that you could choose any weapons you want regardeless of your kit or nationality.

                              EX: snipers could choose either SVD,M24,ecc...depending on preference and deployment.
                              What about if I wanna be Special Ops,but I wanna use a shotgun instead M4 because in Karkand I like it better but dont want to give up c4?
                              AT with M16,Engineers with DAO,medics with SCAR..and so on.....

                              BAD idea?
                              Very nice idea man, send it to EA for BF3.

                              Comment

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