PKM accuracy!

[BirdKiller]

Re: PKM accuracy!

from 1.02 to 1.03 PKM gained alot of accuracy.

plus the pkm has a "lucky hit" where eventually one bullet will go straight out and headshot someone, but it takes between 1-10 seconds for the lucky hit to occur. its random how long it takes.

The weapon properties of the PKM is unchanged since 1.00 I believe. You might've experienced some luck or propitious conditions since 1.02 to make you gullible and believe so. Also, this "lucky hit" is total BS, the closest feature you are talking about is the random deviation in which every infantry weapons except explosives have. Random deviation can either be benefitcial or degrading to the player's accuracy.

[Sneaky Assassin]

Re: PKM accuracy!

It's always been that good, you just have to get use to the way it fires, once you do that your as happy as a worm in the compost heap.

[HABO3]

Re: PKM accuracy!

it's exactly the same, PKM depends alot on good ping because it fires slow

[Clayton Gold]

Re: PKM accuracy!

Pimpyo, just because you can't understand what he's talking about doesnt mean he's "showing off".

[WarGimp]

Re: PKM accuracy!

Heh, Wargimp will always be a more mature and respected member of this forum than you'll ever be..

I'm also extremely sure that none of the patches have ever altered damage or accuracy of any gun. It's all just luck and wishful thinking (and perhaps increased skill over time).

Ah shucks... :nod:

wargimp your writing about the chaos theory has given me the urge to read more about it.......and i got a woody....THANKS!

Um... er... yer, like welcome I guess? Maybe?

Actually, this got me thinking that you could calculate a probability cone for each weapon by mapping it's spread against it's rate of fire. Factor in time and you've got an effective way of guessing how long it will take to hit someone and where best to aim to enhance your probilities of a headshot.

The funny thing is, that's rather complex math that skilled players do in their heads instinctually.

[BirdKiller]

Re: PKM accuracy!

But it's useless since the random Deviation is factored in.

[WarGimp]

Re: PKM accuracy!

Edit: I totally mis-read you comment.

I don't follow you.
The random deviation (combined with min dev, max dev, and dev per shot) gives you your cone of probility. You can't tell the bullet where to go exactly, but by knowing the form of your weapon's cone, you can make a best guess at how long it will take a bullet to land roughly where you want it.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: PKM accuracy!

This whole cone of fire and random deviation talk has made me want to make a video. Or maybe something like a weekly segment, called 'Where did THOSE bullets go?', and show times where I get ****ed because of the random deviation/cone of fire in this game. Like when I came around a corner, found someone who was standing still, and unloaded no fewer than four bursts of the M16 into the guy's back (I'm guessing he was standing still because he was requesting a medic or issuing orders or something) before he turns around and starts shooting. This was at point blank range on a stationary target, and he didn't go down. So the question is, 'Where did THOSE bullets go?' Or like when I've shot someone when only their head is showing (like they're standing next to a ledge) with a gun that is an OHK to the head such as the G3 or AK101, and still takes three hits to kill them. So the only part showing is the head, you register a hit with an one-hit headshot weapon, yet the target doesn't die. 'Where did THOSE bullets go?'.

So it's not any sort of math that a skilled player does, really. All a skilled player can do is aim at the head and shoot, and hope that the bullet goes where the gun is pointed. It's crappy that it has to work that way, but it does. :hmm:

~Wolfgang

[imported_The 13th Raptor]

Re: PKM accuracy!

we all love Wargimp, hes so cool, educated and well spoken. <3

About the pkm, i keep getting shot by players standing up and spraying at me from a distance..

[=GzR=Damager]

Re: PKM accuracy!

go against a wall like 20m away and unload long bursts ... move back a little and do it again ... the spread on the PKM is disgusting.

Small quick controlled bursts are the only way to control that damn thing ... it was my first unlock

[WarGimp]

Re: PKM accuracy!

Donno... I get some perty good extended covering fire effects outta my PKM. It's by no means acurate, but if ya put up enough lead, someone is bound to run into it!

Sometimes it's not about hitting your target so much as sending a message. Most of the time the message is "Hey F:censored:ker, DUCK!!".

[vbl]

Re: PKM accuracy!

So it's not any sort of math that a skilled player does, really. All a skilled player can do is aim at the head and shoot, and hope that the bullet goes where the gun is pointed.

Yes and no. The experienced player certainly isn't doing any math in his head, but he is keying in on clues that tell him whether or not, and how, to adjust his fire.

For instance, if I crack off 2-4 rounds at a stationary target and none of them hit, I quickly recognize that it's the stupid grid system and I physically shift my body left or right to better align. If I quickly unload 2-3 bursts from the M16 while running and none of them hit, I realize I've taxed the max deviation to the point of uselessness and I need to stop or go prone to settle the gun back down.

Even knowing the "cooldown" rhythm of a given weapon is useful, since you can space single shots just far enough apart to minimize added shot deviation, but still efficiently ice a target.

We do these things almost subsconsciously, and over time the coping mechanisms become trained behavior that happens automatically when certain circumstances are present.

[WarGimp]

Re: PKM accuracy!

All of which breaks down to math.
It's just applied math that we don't think about in those terms.

The human brain isn't really good at doing much computation, but for some reason it excells at making guesses based on probibilites and pattern recognition. Both of these things are complex enough to be a pain for computers to process, but we can do it without even knowing HOW we are doing it.

Kinda cool, really.

[vbl]

Re: PKM accuracy!

All of which breaks down to math.
It's just applied math that we don't think about in those terms.

The human brain isn't really good at doing much computation, but for some reason it excells at making guesses based on probibilites and pattern recognition. Both of these things are complex enough to be a pain for computers to process, but we can do it without even knowing HOW we are doing it.

Kinda cool, really.

I really don't think it's mathematical in this case, but you're right about pattern recognition through experience.

There's a book called Sources of Power by Gary Klein that speaks to this concept. Klein did an exhaustive series of interviews and field observations with people who have to make complicated decisions under stressful circumstances. They worked with firefighters, military personnel, rescue workers, and the like.

Ultimately they found that experience became the best teacher. The best-performing, quick decision makers relied on past experiences (or components of them) to recognize circumstances, formulate solutions, and then put them into action. There was very little, if no, conscious or subsconscious mathematical weighing of probability, simulation, or comparison of solutions for likelihood of success. People just picked the first relevant solution that came to mind.

I consider this a similar matter. That's why new players are totally baffled when they unload a clip into someone at medium range and get zero hits, whereas veterans (though still annoyed) will be able to adjust far more quickly and work out a better course of action.

Or when a tank suddenly shows up, we go with the first viable solution. We don't sit and identify all options, or try to simulate the outcome of a specific action. We just act.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: PKM accuracy!

Yes and no. The experienced player certainly isn't doing any math in his head, but he is keying in on clues that tell him whether or not, and how, to adjust his fire.

For instance, if I crack off 2-4 rounds at a stationary target and none of them hit, I quickly recognize that it's the stupid grid system and I physically shift my body left or right to better align. If I quickly unload 2-3 bursts from the M16 while running and none of them hit, I realize I've taxed the max deviation to the point of uselessness and I need to stop or go prone to settle the gun back down.

Even knowing the "cooldown" rhythm of a given weapon is useful, since you can space single shots just far enough apart to minimize added shot deviation, but still efficiently ice a target.

We do these things almost subsconsciously, and over time the coping mechanisms become trained behavior that happens automatically when certain circumstances are present.

Well, yeah, I do understand all that, and I use the ARs quite a bit so I know about single shot, leading shots, short bursts, knowing your gun, etc. Just sometimes you can do all those things and STILL not get a hit or kill because the random deviation hoses you over. There's only so much control the player has over where the bullets actually go once they leave the barrel of the gun, and that's what's irritating. That, and the fact that a lot of the times the bullets seemingly go so far off from where they should makes me wonder just how far the deviation truly is. I mean standing with the barrel of your gun pressed into someone's back and squeezing off 12 rounds from an M16 before he even MOVES should be more than enough to kill him (an armoured soldier with full health only takes 5 rounds to the chest from the M16 to die). I know I was getting hits because the crosshairs were registering damage, but it's either deviation causing some of the bullets to exit the gun at 90 degree angles, or maybe a bug that if you fire too fast it doesn't register the second burst or something. Granted, at that time I was shooting from the hip so it wasn't very methodical, but there's no reason those bullets shouldn't have hit.

Other times I've gotten headshots on people standing on top of the TV station with my G3 while near the fence at the construction site using the single-shot, prone, ironsights method. I just wish there was a way to make it so that could happen consistantly by doing the same thing every time, but the randomness makes that impossible, no matter how much past experience you may have on the matter. That's what truly irritates me about the ballistics physics in BF2.

~Wolfgang