The only way SF will survive

[vbl]

Re: The only way SF will survive

SF has a better chance of survival than any other BF mod previously, at least. The maps released for SF are vastly different than the ones for BF, so it's more likely to catch and hold a certain psychographic of players (and many of the Counter-Strike refugees) who prefer infantry battles .

I do predict, however, that once SF players unlock all of the new guns, many will promptly return to regular BF2.

[F-1]

Re: The only way SF will survive

Saureco I completely agree with you.

I said that the very first day bf2 was released and I was labeled as an "idiot who thinks he is smarter than the others".

The stats system is nice and it is a good feature to be able to track your stats, but it is ruining the game.

I hope that they somehow change the stats system such that you are not competeing with the others anymore (not sure how, though)

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: The only way SF will survive

I like your ideas, Saureco, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of them. Maybe BF2 does rope in a bunch of extra people because of stat-whoritis, but for the most part the people who play BF because they like BF will continue to play BF2 and/or SF because it's fun, whereas the stat kiddies will move along to the next big e-penis fad like a new MMORPG or another stat-tracking FPS. Like anything that's new (and even though it's about 5 months old I still consider BF2 relatively 'new' in a sense) it will attract all types, but eventually they filter out and move on to the next big thing leaving the diehards behind to have fun with playing the game. That would be true whether stats were there or not.

And regarding people who say that stats ruin the game, I disagree. Stats don't ruin the game, people do. Kind of like how guns don't kill people, people kill people. Personally I like the stats, ribbons, medals, ranks, etc. because they're fun to keep track of and you can see how you've progressed since your newbie days, but winning still comes first and foremost to me. I'd rather be last place on the winning team than first place on the losing team. I'm sure you feel the same way. I don't think that we're all that rare of an animal, to be honest. Sure, there are stat whores out there, as well as smacktards and griefers, but they are actually rarer than you think. It's just the whole 'one bad apple can spoil the whole barrel' theory where if you have two such players on your team it feels like they're all that way. On the whole, though, many of the teams I've been on I've seen people guarding bases, setting up defenses, laying in wait with a C4 trap to guard a flag, all the while forsaking going after massive amounts of points in an effort to actually win the match. It's certainly better lately than it was at first, so I think the BF2 community as a whole has gotten better (at least on the pubs), whether it be because n00bs have gone on to other things or just the overall skill and awareness of the players that play has improved, and honestly I think it's now getting closer to where it will end up, where winning is more important than stats to almost everyone that plays.

~Wolfgang

[The Question]

Re: The only way SF will survive

I won't be playing it at all. :) I've sworn off BF and EA/DICE like drinking gasoline, not quitting smoking. You go back to smoking. You don't go back to drinking gasoline because the first time around was pretty convincing enough that it was a bad idea.

I'm going along with you. From now on I'm making sure EA and Dice have nothing to do with any of the new games I get.

[Saureco]

Re: The only way SF will survive

Perhaps the proper fix to the stat padding issue is to not explain what is needed for a medal/ribbon. You won't see guys running around with their pistols for the whole map if they don't know how long or how many kills it takes to get a pistol medal/ribbon. There should have been no mention of rewards except for unlocked weapons and "secret" trinkets. That way players would play their favorite kits from the beginning, start unlocking stuff left and right in total surprise, then realize "whoa! I just unlocked stuff and got medals! I wonder what happens if I do it with another kit". Then people start playing dedicated roles for a whole map, maybe for a whole week. Posting requirements to get medals only tells a player that focused combat is second to getting another shiny virtual pin on your virtual lapel--the complete opposite to a team-based game.

I'm glad not all of you agree with me. Then it would be one-sided. So far it's been a clean discussion and I appreciate that. I'm not buying the Special Forces addon (it's not a mod) because I think any company that releases an addon this soon in the game probably meant for that content to be in the initial release, but were too pressed for a release date to include it. That speaks volumes to me about the management of a game developer and its commitment to quality for the customer. Valve took 5 years--five!--to release Half Life 2. The end product was fluid, bug-free, well scripted, and for lack of a better word, "gorgeous". No one can deny the success of Half Life 2, let alone its predecessor. And to top it off, Valve said "and by the way, we've given you Counterstrike: Source and the SDK for free". In a fell swoop, Valve secured a bucketload of loyal customers who were even more satisfied with the Steam delivery system.

EA and DICE, on the other hand, were trailing in performance as far as Valve's milestones and goals. Honestly, the BF2 engine looks like a cousin to the UT2k4 engine--not quite as detailed as Source, but on par with Quake3 code. To make matters worse, they said "lets make a stat system where players can track their performance, gain rank (to create another system of hierarchy), gather medals and ribbons (to create another system of 'I have this and you don't'), and unlock weapons (that can shoot through cockpits)". I bet there wasn't a single question (or if there was, it wasn't heeded) as to whether or not players would exploit the system. EA didn't/wouldn't care. They just want another pretty, overhyped, new disc to put on shelves to compete with the other companies. And now they want to do it again. All of a sudden new equipment, weapons, and night vision are going to make a difference?

You guys can already tell that those 3 things mentioned right there will open another opportunity for bugs and exploits. EA and DICE have no dedication to do it right. They just want produce crap quickly instead of quality slowly.

[noobeffect]

Re: The only way SF will survive

OR, you can just head into unranked servers where most players are playing for fun and stats aren't counted.

Other than that, goodluck finding teamwork in ranked servers.

[Chalk.One]

Re: The only way SF will survive

you all make me laugh

[gungho]

Re: The only way SF will survive

Totally agree with you Saureco man, well said. BTW, there is a SF section in the forums.

[Saureco]

Re: The only way SF will survive

I know there's an SF section, but I'm already predicting its ultimate demise. It's like saying "the skeleton is already flawed, so why build the skin?"

[HicRic]

Re: The only way SF will survive

Saureco, I see where you're coming from and you make some good points, but I disagree overall. BF2 does well, has done well, and will continue to do well, 'despite' stats being in it. People still play it, and people-lots of them-will play SF.

I like stats, not because I'm some obsessive (I know I'll never be 'number one' at anything, and I don't care). I like to look at things, I'm curious about how many kills I've got with such-and-such gun, which kit I use the least, things like that. It's just curiosity for me. :)

Your point about getting rid of recording all these stats to free up processing power on servers is totally invalid, though-it'd add only a tiny amount of extra power if they removed stat recording. With all the information being thrown around and processed, simply keeping count of kills with certain guns and so on is very easily handled by a computer.

I'd disagree with some of the things you said about Half-life 2, as well. It wasn't bug free (although compared to BF2 it is ) and there were tons of people having problems with Steam and disliking it (although of course it did work well for the majority).

Sure, I don't like the way EA do things, how QA seems a bit poor and they have a tendancy to rush things out and patch it later. I don't like the constant unimaginative stuff they churn out (look at the new sports games each year...always the same, just one minor improvement and a roster update). But I have to admit, at the end of the day I enjoy playing Battlefield 2. I have 140 hours clocked playing it, which is a significant number-a lot more than many games.

Stat padders? Never seen one. Cheating? Never seen it either. Punkbuster is surely a good positive for BF2. Sure, it doesn't stop everything but I think cheating is very much lower in BF2 than many other online games.

Engine on par with Quake 3? That's pretty absurd...since when did Quake 3 have huge open maps with high detail graphics, lots of different types of vehicles and 64 players at once to top it all off? The graphics are very good. (I admit I don't care much though. Graphics are far from my highest priority in a game.)

Sure, I don't like some of the things the stats make people do in BF2. But find a good server with good people, and it's an awesome game that features teamwork like no other. Find a bad server with bad players, and it sucks...but any online game will be poor with bad players.

I know, I know. tl;dr. :P

[imported_The 13th Raptor]

Re: The only way SF will survive

What Godlike weapons? I don't think any of the weapons are that many steps above the other.

Just my opinion

DAO/G36c

DAO is 5 times better then the mp5/bison

G36c is more accurate then sniper rifles, fully automatic as well.

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: The only way SF will survive

I won't be playing it at all. :) I've sworn off BF and EA/DICE like drinking gasoline, not quitting smoking. You go back to smoking. You don't go back to drinking gasoline because the first time around was pretty convincing enough that it was a bad idea.

lol, i like your logic...

[The Question]

Re: The only way SF will survive

(First I'll have some fun) I love it when you call me big poppa!(Waves hands in the air)

(Now back to the real world) If EA would just fix the current problems and write a letter saying sorry I would love them as much as I love my tv company which is sony.

But getting rid of the stats would make me happy.

[scott123]

Re: The only way SF will survive

The stats are already gone. Anyone with 17000 or so has just about everything anyway. In my opinion, SF sucks and I won't be playing it much.

[DemonOfhatred]

Re: The only way SF will survive

The only way the Special Forces expansion will survive is if EA/DICE removes the statistics feature.
[/rant]

????????


If EA/DICE did that my copy of BF2 and BF2sf would go in the trash.