The infantry balance

[RandomTask]

Re: The infantry balance

@Booth
Playing a class and playing the game is two different things and I find it surprising that you haven’t seen that yet. The game was designed to play in coop with your team-mates in squads, not to run around lone-wolfing with uberleet skills (hence the balancing of the weapons). Frawning down on any class like you do from your "best in the world position" is actually doing more harm to players mindset then helping the game in the right direction. Please encourage teamplay.

No single player stand any chance against a squad of player that cooperates using different classes. Every class is very useful if used in combination with other classes.

Don’t you "need n00b" from support when your beloved "n00b-toob" gets empty or are you constantly full of that to?

[ConscriptVirus]

Re: The infantry balance

"If i scope in, in single shot mode, with an iron sight, that dosnt do much more than obstruct my vision, i want to hit every bullit i fire, at the moment, you just spam single shot, because the accuracy is random, if you could calm your shot, then fire for a granateed hit, you would make the kit harder to use and less spammy. "
what do u mean by calm your shot:?

[Combined]

Re: The infantry balance

In regards to resupply, you should have to resupply minimum 3 clips in order to get a point.

I absolutely agree with the above, I play engineer mostly and I have to repair a **** load of UAVs, Sat scanners, artillery, vehicles and crap just to get three or four points. Support guys just toss bags around like doritos and get points because they resupplied a guy that was missing one grenade from his inventory.

[Marksmen]

Re: The infantry balance

Very well done, very thought out im glad someone stood up to ppl thinking your to good, but gratz on getting so high. and im a spec op user i think there the best class since sliced bread your very true with the assault class. :)

[imported_SpungE]

Re: The infantry balance

Booth you seem pretty uptight to other peoples views. Try to persuade them to agree with you rather than shouting at them. Counter thier comments, don't shout them down.

Anyway you made some pretty good points but balancing weapons is a difficult thing with so many classes...

[vim]

Re: The infantry balance

this is what i so frikkin' hate about this game / community. It all comes down to stats whether a point of view from a player is respected or not.



edit: but then again. On other random forums it's all about the postcount..:|:

[jonnysanchez]

Re: The infantry balance

if youre |lab|monkeymagic why would u use |lab|booth's name. ? monkeymagic has over 16,000 rifle kills, ive seen him in servers mostly the ogn inf maps one. try some other guns you will find the m16 is not so random after all.

[CS-Evolution]

Re: The infantry balance

Booth-

First, I commend you for taking people to task on stats; a lot of people like to make statements like the 30-10 guy. Don't mind the people who say you're hiding behind stats, because they are often the best qualifier to see if someone is making a credible statement. But for yourself, I'm not sure you have enough experience with the other kits to make an accurate statement about their value. You have thousands of kills with the assault rifles, but only a few dozen or hundred with weapons from other classes. I think you summary on the Support player is especially skewed, as I find it the most fun class to play. I've never heard an AT player scorn me for throwing an ammo bag at him, even if it does give his position away (the streaking rockets usually do that before the ammo bags do anyway).

I like what you have to say about accuracy though. Coming from CS:S, the weapons in BF2's infantry combat seem COMPLETELY random (which is quite a statement coming from a CS:S player, eh?).

[Ruhanga]

Re: The infantry balance

In regards to resupply, you should have to resupply minimum 3 clips in order to get a point.

Dear god man, are you trying to kill me? Yes, we can spam points but hey, what about medics? Medics! is shouted much more than Need Ammo!. Not only that Support already has average gun, youll take away his possibility of getting points in puplic? I mean, nobody asks for ammo as you can just die and they usually die before they get it empty.

[Booth]

Re: The infantry balance

In regards to my experience with other kits, i play clan games, roughly 1 a night, and im usually using a varied amount of kits through those.

@Booth
Playing a class and playing the game is two different things and I find it surprising that you haven’t seen that yet. The game was designed to play in coop with your team-mates in squads, not to run around lone-wolfing with uberleet skills (hence the balancing of the weapons). Frawning down on any class like you do from your "best in the world position" is actually doing more harm to players mindset then helping the game in the right direction. Please encourage teamplay.

No single player stand any chance against a squad of player that cooperates using different classes. Every class is very useful if used in combination with other classes.

Don’t you "need n00b" from support when your beloved "n00b-toob" gets empty or are you constantly full of that to?

I play clan games man, i really dont squad in pubs unless my clan are in there with me, i also like to lone wolf, its a challenge to school squads. In regards to my referencing of certain kits as n00b, they really are, the support kit is damn n00b and its just a cheap way for people who can get kills or caps to get points. The medic is virtually the same with the revive feature. And im a bit tired of being told im not a team player because i go lone wolf or use the assault kits.

this is what i so frikkin' hate about this game / community. It all comes down to stats whether a point of view from a player is respected or not.

I spose people like to know the guy thats saying the stuff isnt a kid who is a poor player. It always amazes me that every forum you go to, everyone "tops pubs" and owns everyone, but then in servers atleast 50% of people are noobie.

Anyways were getting off track id imagine on the whole ewang measuring debate.

The randomness needs to be lessened as a whole. For the sake of the game, and the assault kit, it would be nice to have a weapon that performs the same consistantly.

[Ruhanga]

Re: The infantry balance

Are you saying at already unplayed kit like support needs to be nerfed and very popular kit like assault should be better?
And tell me how is support a noob kit. You can dive with every kit and you cant shoot it when standing. What is the noob part in it? That that people run at proning support man and get killed?

[Real_2St0n3d]

Re: The infantry balance

Booth, when I've played as much hours as you, my KD rate will have gone up.
If I'd learn how to be a helo pilot or a sniper my stats would go up faster. But I consider those cheap (helo) and/or boring (sniper)

I'm allways looking for the fight up close.. I listen to the orders I'm given, even if they're suicidal.. I respawn at bases I know have a helo hovering over it or a tank covering it.. there's a chance I don't spawn in their killzone and I can save the flag untill reinforced.

The day I started my KD rate was 0.39... so what? I had fun and learned valuable lessons.

One thing will be different when I reach your playtime: my team score will be a LOT higher then yours.. does that make me better? I don't think so.. get over the stats and start having some fun, geez..

[Grey Fox]

Re: The infantry balance

Howdy, my name is |LAB|Monkeymagic, some of you may know me or know of me, some may be arrogant to who i am. Eitherway, im currently the leader of a clan in australia called lab, and we were pretty heavily involved in the leaderboards during the early days when we could be bothered to put the time and effort in. Anyway I currently wear the title thanks to stats of the top rated assault in the world, both with the kit and with the rifle. Which is an achievement im proud of.

Anyway I see alot of posts by alot of people having a bitch in regards to the infantry combat. And what they thinks wrong with it. Anyway I think its about time someone who dosnt believe the sniper is the best kit in the entire world to comment on the issue.

Id like to start off by saying there are alot of seperate issues that come together to make up the balance so this thread may be long. Anyways ill jump to it and do a kit by kit break down.

Sniper - Got random accuracy? If youve ever had the pleasure of using the svd then you will understand what im talking about, the best sniper rifle in the game is the m24, because its the most accurate. Unfortunately, realistically, snipers arnt even a remote threat, by the time youve been hit once, you know he is there and the large amount of medics whoring points floating around will revive you the second you die. The sniper as a kit, well its fun, but its not any good...The only way you could fix this is to start making a variation in the armour, i.e players with armour can survive a sniper shot to the chest, a player without armour...cant. Unfortunately if that were to become true, the other weapons power would need to be bumped to compensate. I think the best balance with the sniper rifles, would be to make it so that when your killed with one, you cant be revived. Which i think would be fair.

Medic - Ive gotta be honest, a smart medic, can take down a smart assault at a range, because he has an endless supply of health to call on. There are too many points in a revive. You get 2 points...the same a kill, and it takes roughly no talent to do. I cant tell you the amount of times ive been outscored by n00bs on the other team with scores like 75 73 1 18. Yeah and sure you may say, omg he is helping his team, he is a better team player than you blah blah blah, but the fact remains if he really was a team player he would be reviving for 1 point just the same, and he wouldnt end up with a crazy score for doing something that takes (read it) no skill. Medics are big in clan games because you dont lose tickets with revives.

Engineer - Could there be a more useless kit? Yeah the spanner is cool, but honestly those mines are pretty much useless, the shotguns are weird in my opinion in the fact that they always fire straight ahead while ur running, so no matter what you do, the shotgun always fire where you point it. Obviously the pellets are random, but they always go within a certain area. Which makes me think you could pretty much abuse it, luckily he is armourless, making him not that powerful, but still i cant help but think back to the dc days, when tards ran around with saiga's completely unaffected by movement, and every other kit was effected by movement. Lets hope the engineer gets better anti tank capabilites.

Spec ops - Why does he have the most accurate gun in the game? His gun can beat snipers quiet comfortably, especially the g36c and the m4. The addition of c4, and hand grenades make this kit pretty damn good, Its weakness is close range, with the g36c anyway, because it lacks power, however with the m4, he is alot stronger, he shouldnt beat an assault, but he can come mighty close. This kit in my opinion is probably the best all round, anti tank, anti infantry, and dominant at long range, make this a kit hard to get close to, if used correctly.

Anti tank - with the mp5, the kit is so so, you get the unlock, this kit should win all up close encounters, high rate of fire weapon + armour + ammo capacity + anti tank = the win. This kit is quietely overpowered. The dao is a machine, once again, the problem with shotguns, is the fact you dont have to stop to shoot them. When you think about it, these guns fire where you want them too right? They suffer at range obviously due to the pellets, but the shotgun is actually the best bullit based weapon up close, when you give him the armour of the assault, it start to make you think, "this kits better than the assault at running and gunning and up close due to this".

Support - Got n00b? dolphin dive and hold the trigger down, if your lucky you will hit, and id like to say its more than luck involved, but its not, this gun is unaccurate spam, and its sad, unfortunately, because of the **** weak assault rifle, they couldnt make the support kit as accurate as it should be prone, so its just spam. Then you get the ammo whores omg im so sick of them, most people dont understand that when you throw an ammo pack down, the enemy see it, and they know where you are when some retard tries to resupply you everytime u fire a bullit, because there getting a whole point for it.

Assault - Now ive done fairly brief write ups about the other kits, but this kit is a kit i know inside out and it has alot of issues surrounding it. So im gonna go in depth about the main issues surrounding it.

The nade launcher

Lots of people complain about it, me included, its so easy to use its not funny, the other weapons take so long to kill people(usually 3 + bursts from an assault) that its hard to go past the nade launcher, it is the official n00b tube once again, and despite the complaints by most players its still needs to be there.

Now here me out, without the nade launcher, the assault has the assault gun, which in my opinion is a piece of ****, its crap up close(shotguns own it) it cant compete at a range (spec ops own it) and at medium distance its ok...but nothing special. The assault kit rifle needs to remove all "luck" and "randomness" from up close combat, the assault in my opinion, should be good enough to atleast compete with shotguns up close. Because the kit is titled "assault" he needs to be the attacking kit. The only reason the kit is used now is the nade launcher, if you took it away, the kit wouldnt be used at all. No doubt in my mind. The kit needs to be better moving than the other kits, now im not saying go all bfv on my ass, and make the guns 100% accurate, im just saying make him better at moving and shooting at like 10m max.

If the nade launcher is nerfed and the rifle remains a piece of ****. The assault kit is in trouble.

The random factor

Thats right, the accuracy is random, you could do the same thing 10 times and get 10 different results, this dosnt help the game become better, it just keeps the poor players happy. After a week of playing the game, I was just as good as i am now, thanks to the marvel that is "complete and utter lack of depth" the kits have no depth, you cannoy become so good with a kit, that you just own people. Because alot of its luck. Take the headshots for example, i get headshotted most kills, one or two bullits hit me, and i die. Please ignore the fact i just shot three bursts into his chest at 10m, the two shots he spammed while, he was running vs my prone/crouched,Good isnt it? Did those people aim for my head? probably not, but they hit it. The less random the accuracy is the faster the good players rise to the top, as previously mentioned, you can shoot a guy first, and most often, and lose just due to luck.

That brings me to another thing, whats with the dolphin diving and insta prone crap, the guy is 10 metres away, so you dive to get more accuracy? wtf?

Iron sights

If i scope in, in single shot mode, with an iron sight, that dosnt do much more than obstruct my vision, i want to hit every bullit i fire, at the moment, you just spam single shot, because the accuracy is random, if you could calm your shot, then fire for a granateed hit, you would make the kit harder to use and less spammy.

All in all, the answer for game balance from dice, was to make all the weapons ****, bar one or two (nade launcher) and claim its balanced. Most of the long range assault battles are based on luck, luck of it your shots hit...because no matter what you do, it is luck if they hit. The close range battles are a joke, you standing ontop of someone, 5m away for example and somehow 2 out of 3 bullits from an m16 miss? It dosnt make sence.

All in all, the infantry could be improved by a simple upping of the accuracy of the weapons, im not even talking power, just accuracy. We dont want another 1942 where the nade spamming run and gun medic pwns, and the assault sucks. Given the assault some run and gun abilities for once, he is meant to attack, give that to him and you will have a much more fun game.

Anyways post some thoughts guys, as it is, the current crop of infantry is n00b friendly.

Proof that you do not need skill nor a brain to get high in the ranks.
Your lack of knowledge of each kit simply amazes me, your attitude vs other people on the other hand doesn't, I expected as much from someone like you.

[Himmler]

Re: The infantry balance

That brings me to another thing, whats with the dolphin diving and insta prone crap, the guy is 10 metres away, so you dive to get more accuracy? wtf?

That is so funny coming from you noob. Come in here and tell everyone how crap they are when your the biggest whore in australia. Ask anyone Australian player of an opinion about lab, 90% will tell you they are stat paddling glitchers, m203 naders and tank whores.

If you want to see how good booth is with his assault class check this out:

http://media.putfile.com/ProneJumping/640

Nice dancing you lame glitcher. Its not hard to do have a good k/d ratio when you do that sorta crap. If you think ur good try a delta force game. See how well u do that crap on there then come back and tell us where your ranked. Anyone can be good at BF2. Dont need any particular aiming ability.

As an ex-JO player, BF2 infantry combat is total crap especially the assault class. Unrealistic weapons and lack of bullet drop mean this game is aimed at arcade game players.

[CS-Evolution]

Re: The infantry balance

If you want to see how good booth is with his assault class check this out:

http://media.putfile.com/ProneJumping/640

Wow, served. That just completely sapped the credibility of just about his entire post right there.