Poll: Should Support Weapons be improved?

[22CW Cainius]

i wouldnt want near perfect even when prone unless you spent 10 seconds mounting it... a bit more time to go prone say 1.5 seconds and much better accuracy (LMG level about but gets worse over time 10+ rounds in full auto for instance and the deviation starts to increase above LMG levels)

[alecs36]

It's rediculous how wide the spread is, even when prone. It's an ineffective weapon in combat and everyone knows it.

yes, if anyone remembers in bfv, the support gun was way to accurate. EA/Dice probably didn't whant to take any chances this time, and made it suck.

[imported_Tumbler]

Just got done playing online with the Support weapon. Was confused why so many ppl said it's really accurate you just need to learn to use it, and it's balanced and what not.

This gun is the most annoying peice of weaponry in the game. Sometimes it's accurate, sometimes it's not. Most annoying of all is the close range accuracy. I can understand the spray going all over once it gets far enough away but when someone run infront of you while you are firing in prone full auto 5 feet away and manages to shoot and kill you something is really wrong. These weapons may just have an accuracy problem up close because at a reasonable distance they perform....ok. But there are wild inconsistencies all the time.

Oh, and if you line up the iron sights your shots won't hit. You have to aim low. Then your shots hit. Yet another weird problem with the 249 at least. Utter waste of time to try and use it. I scored an average of 20 pts per game in karkland using the saw. Changed to Assault, score doubled at least every round.

If you want to use this weapon just don't take it seriously, it's a clown gun. Completely inconsistent. Sometimes it will hit fine, sometimes you put 10 shots dead on right into someone with no hits. Then he turns and shoots back. You die. So rediciulous.

[imported_Animalmother]

it needs to be more accurate when kneeling and standing. The accuracy of it prone is where it should be kneeling. Also, sounds like a vaccum cleaner.

[Jashobeam]

The gun needs better accuracy, that's my vote. I don't mind if in the name of balance the devs decide the kit needs slower general movement, or takes longer to go prone, or whatever. As before, the devs should consider bumping up those kits that are least attractive, and I believe based on the player stats the support kit qualifies. I know my time with the kit has just not been very satisfying.

Don't get me wrong, you can score kills with it. You can get the drop on a bunch and take them out. I just think most people would agree that if you are accurate and effective with the support gun, you will be more accurate and more effective with the assault or medic guns. Let's not mention the M4.

And for the love of Pete, can we please just stop with the comments about how it's supposed to lay down suppressive fire? There is no such thing as suppressive fire in BF2. There is effective fire, and there is ineffective fire. Effective fire does not suppress, it kills. Most of the time, support fire is ineffective, because it does not convince your enemy that a direct assault on your position will not work. 9 times out of 10 they will take their chances, and those chances are good.

I've said it before, no-one should be able to charge an LMG and live. The thing is for providing a base of fire. You flank it, you call in artillery, you use your m203 as an improvised mortar, you sprint for cover. As it stands the thing actually encourages the Rambos because they often defeat the threat in a stand up gun fight. That is crazy in my book.

Finally can I make a plea that we dial the hysteria down in the warnings about it becoming the M60 noob cannon ala BFV? I think the comparison is disingenuous because that kit also carried a LAW! Besides, even the stoutest defender of the current implementation of the support weapon would have to admit that the gun is a long way from that popular now.

[HABO3]

there's nothing wrong with the LMGs....took me 70+ hours using support class to really figure out how to work the LMG but now I'm damn ****ing good with it.

[justinol[AJO]]

support should recieve more accuracy when prone.

but that accuracy should take skill to take advantage of.

it could start of being more accurate but the longer you keep your finger on the trigger the bigger the 'spread' gets and fast. that way aiming and controlled firing makes a big difference.

so to keep accuracy you need controlled bursts of 5 - 10 bullets at a time. with the final 'bloom' being what the current accuracy now is.


my beef with support at the moment is that bullets go in the general direction you aim. they dont go where you aim. thats a big difference. luck plays too much of a part.

bursting doesn't make that much difference. i have tested this many times by going prone and then shooting a bounch of bullets at a wall (normally use the aircraft carrier as it has nice whitish walls) and noticing the bullets impacts and then the bullet holes.

the thing that makes the biggest difference for me is aiming just under or above the target and using the cone of fire to my advantage...

I have wiped about a few 4 -6 man groups with the LMG. and after a while you get used to letting the random spread do your aiming work for you. but that feels like playing a slot amchine - matter of lucky shots. an average of 10% accuracy isn't great. for every 10 bullets shot only one hits??

ATM you can basically see a bunch of people, aim in the middle of them and let the random spread do the work for you. in this scenario you only burst to keep heat down more than anything. in my books this is not skill in shooting it is skill in picking an opportunity (which is a great skill on its own but this discussion is about teh guns).

i want skill, aim and controlled fire to have a bit more impact than luck in determining who/what i hit. especially if i take the time to go prone, put up iron sights, aim and fire.


i don't want a laser gun. i want a gun that can deliver effective fire that rewards my ability to aim.


this topic comes up on nearly all the big bf2 forums and often the majority consensus is the same. and quite sane and reasonable. which surprises me cause people usually arent.

[HABO3]

bursting doesn't make that much difference.

it makes all the difference there is

I see people trying to hit stuff full auto with the LMGs...you can pretty much assume they're noobies.

[big_sammy_b]

i love the saw in close quarters combat it owns. My question is, is it worth unlocking the support gun?

[imported_Fig]

The support weapon, with all other weapons, needs to forgo the bullets spreading out like butter on toast and adopt recoil. play BFE and fire the RPK, the recoil is what throws your aim off, not this stupid fudgre factor that makes every gun feel like a bullet hose.

[djstubbs]

No, if you improve the support gun people will whore it.

It's powerful enough as it is.

[Eddy01741]

Look at the prima chart guys, it's the second most accurate gun when prone (no scope, spec ops beats it btw), so just go prone and use the iron sights. And to the guy that says that if you don't own guys coming around the corner from 10 feet because they 203 you, what weapon could stop them, it's a noob cannon, even a shotty couldn't stop a guy from spamming you with a 203. And for the people that said you are supposed to fire full auto mgs and not bursts like you should in game, you are wrong. People with SAWs in the army are trained not to shoot full auto, they shoot in bursts wen they put the selecter switch to cyclic rate (750-100 rpm), and when they shoot full auto, they put it to sustained (65-85 rpm), so it doesn't overheat in like 10 seconds, and so that you don't waste ammo. EA didn't put in sustained role, so you have to fire bursts, they're fine the way they are, the only change is like a teeny weeny bit more accurate, like .1 less minimum deviation when prone, anways who cares about the mgs, if you want points, just drop ammobags everywhere on karkand from like some rooftop, you get like 100 points. and yes the saw is like 10 extra riflemen on defense , and if you do play as defending a flag, it is great, i mowed down a squad in flag defense, got 6 kills (12 points) and 6 defense points, it's good as it is, don't flame me or i will flame you back.

[DrMcleod]

The Chinese support weapon is terrible, the MEC and US ones are OK. You do need to be a bit more circumpect about how you use them though, you are not as versatile as an Assault class, but a bit of clever manouvering should see you racking up the kills.
It would be cool to be able to deploy on window ledges and so forth, but I doubt this is top of the coding priority.

[glaeken]

Ok lets tackle the practice more argument. Go prone with a support gun and fire a single shot. Note where it lands. Wait a second or two don't move your aim at all and fire another one and note where this lands. It will be in completly different place to the first shot.

If you keep doing the same test you will see the shots land randomly all over the place. All in game guns have this random effect to an extent but the support gun has it to a far larger degree. Reducing this effect while in prone after a slight delay (maybe 1 second) will just make the guns more fun to use.
I don't think it requires much of an improvement just a little bit more accuracy.

They are not useless at the moment and you will get kills if you practice how to use them but this practice is more about the best situation to use them in rather than aiming or fire control practice due to the very high random variation on shots.

[Cpt. Turner]

put it this way....a saw will tear someone apart, yet the enemy still manages to sprint away