Points vs. Teamwork: How to discourage LoneWolves?

[lThelChaos]

that war in iraq vid is sooo cool. i saw it the other day

[Cadde]

I like the idéa of making teamplay more effective than lone wolfing but i want teampoints for doing teamwork stuff...

Getting points for people that spawn on you is a little too easy just because you can camp.

Something else perhaps?


Squad Leaders

• Gain a 0.2 point teamwork score when people spawn on him. (Not only a mobile spawn point whore :p )
• Gain a 0.1 point teamwork score for each squad member he gets to his assigned target on the map. (Requirements include destroying a asset, capping a flag, his squad killing at least 5 enemy soldiers or likewise. Another requirement would be traveling atleast 200 meters ?)
• Beeing penalised for not assigning a new target within 30 seconds or 60 seconds.

Squad Members

• Gain a 10% bonus for each squad member he resupplies, heals or revives etc. (1.1 points for heal, 2.2 points for revive.)
• Gain 1 teamwork score for reaching a target assigned by his squad leader and has been active in killing enemies, resupplying or likewise while moving with his squad. (See above for the squad leader bonus on the same target for additional requirements, theese link)
• Gain a 1 teamwork bonus for each 30 seconds he spend with atleast 30% of his squad and is actively helping them. (Kills, kill assist, heal etc, range to the squad is at most 30 meters.)
• Beeing penalised for not moving within atleast 200 meters of his squad leader over 2 minutes.

Everyone including lone wolves

• Gain a 0.1 teamwork score for spotting a "unknown" enemy target.
• Gain a 20% bonus for killing a spotted target. (Spotted by another player, the spotter gains an extra 0.1 teamwork bonus.)
• Get 0.1 teamwork points for each player he carries while being a driver every minute. (Blackhawks need to be reworked a bit. see THIS post.

Commander

• Every order issued by the commander has a 1 teamwork completion bonus for each member in the squad. (Same requirements as the squad leader order bonus, the commander get a 0.5 teamwork bonus.)
• Gain a 10 teamwork score bonus for NOT teamkilling anyone with artillery for the entire round. (Requirement, dropped atleast 10 artillery strikes)
• Gain a 0.2 teamwork bonus for each player that has a K ratio higer than 1:1 and atleast 5 kills and has played for 2 minutes or more. 6:5 will do.

Etc etc etc...

Not all my suggestions are good but i tried to think out something useful.

0.1 + 0.1 = 0.2 ! All scores build up.

Time build up separately... Transport a soldier for 30 seconds then drop him off and transport another one for 30 seconds and you have a full minute thus giving you 0.1 more teamwork points.


//Cadde

[Ion]

I just wanted to say I love mods and the conversations they spawn :)

[imported_Tumbler]

Idea

Just had an idea regarding Squad leaders and spawn points.

What if players could spawn on any squad leader and not just their own squad leader. So if most of your forces where moving into position towards a flag then you might see 3 different mobile spawns and you could pick any one of them.

This would at very least make it more likely that people will stay in groups as players will have more choices for where to spawn.

[ttopi]

Even if you play alone, say you want to be SpecOps or Sniper, make a squad and name it like: "SpecOps" or "Anti-tank"... you get the picture.

As a squadleader you can call for suplies. I use a lots of C4 and rockets so I really need suplies. There aren't many support willing to come along you, but commander can be your friend if only he's up for his tasks. Commanders get points when you ask for supplies and he delivers them on time, so he would be more than happy sending you them. There are exceptions, though but generally they help you if they can.

[rombaft]

I play lone wolf as many as I play squad member or leader, beeing a lone wolf doen't mean you don't teamwork, sometimes more the other squad members.

You can still heal guys, suplie guys, drive people around, take someone in the chopper, taike flags with others, ....

[thingonaspring]

About the "war on iraq" video, it was mostly just squads full of bots. The benefits of being in a squad seem to remain a mystery to the common player. At sergeant rank it seems, if I'm making a name for myself, players either love or hate me. Those that are loving me are my loyal squadmembers, they adhere to my orders, will feel encouraged to use voip, follow me and move as a squad everywhere on the map. In the order of battle though, in most occasions the leading squad's members seem to come out as the top scoring players. I'd say there isnt any need for squad bonuses or anything. All it takes is self encouragement.

[imported_dumbo]

IMHO the basic problem is: Squads can only be in one place at a time. If we've got e.g. 4 squads and e.g. 10 flags - it doesn't take a genius to see the slight problem...

Squads are great (and worth joining) on smaller maps, or maps with 'concentrated action'. [Karkand, Sharqi, Mashtuur - all potentially good squad maps].

The larger maps need a way of concentrating the action to help squads make a difference (the common idea is 'you can only take a flag adjacent to one of your own'). [currently on these maps, lonewolves are not less effective].

[j4k3]

well, one way is to double your squad's average score if your squad is the best on your side at the end of a round.

[Roderick]

I never understand why there is so much hate for the lonewolf.

I play as a loner at times when my friends are not on Teamspeak and I do pretty damn well over many squads on my local server. I know how to play the game and I produce flag captures. That is the point of the game. Not to get in a squad because you feel players should be in one. Gimme and break!!

[Tobacco]

Its really a problem with the mindset of people than a problem with the game.

Roger that! I usually join a Server with three+ fellow clanmates, once we have stick-handled ourselves onto the same team, one of us goes SL. We rotate the SL postion every map, just because. I run my Ventrillo on my old machine when playing BF2, for some reason I can hear the Commander better, also gives me 4-8 more FPS.

Clearly, the Ranking System has changed the way many people approach the game, and not for the better IMO.


T

[imported_Tumbler]

Lone Wolves are fine

I never understand why there is so much hate for the lonewolf.

Lonewolves are fine, I play Lone Wolf almost all the time because that always gives me the highest score. What I'd like to see is there be a bonus for being in a squad/being a squad leader because whenever I've done this it takes a chunk out of my points.

It seems like a major portion of the game goes mostly unused (Squad commands/commander commands) because trying to follow those orders and work together never = higher points.

That is the whole point of this thread, what can we do so that working as a squad and being a squad leader doesn't result in lower points at the end of the round.

I tried playing for about 2 hours last night as a squad leader and my score was about 50% what it usually was. Once I started going lone wolf and just doing things on my own, my score doubled every round. that is the problem I want to fix. There should be bonus's for capturing flags, or accomplishing orders.

Idea i've got for squad benefits:
1. When you are in a squad you can only spawn off the squad leader. (if he's dead you have to wait)
2. When in a squad you get a kill assist point for any kill your squad makes.

Ppl can join a squad, if they like it they can stay, if not they can join another squad or go solo.

[Solar71]

i have already modified my BF2 to reward flag taking and more importantly, flag holding... i have tripled the bleed rate for the team with less flags... so holding and taking flags is 3 times more important...

but the online servers have to make the change as well...

Only when i host, are my settings at work...
and the game is WAY WAY WAY better...

if you convince a server to switch to my teamwork scoring system, i can upload the files to mod the game...
its acctually VERY easy...
The key is the online servers... Getting simpleton lame ass admins to agree...

[=HzC=Heinz]

I think there have been alot of good points in this thread. MOST of the team work issues are already resolved if you play with people you know (team/clan) on servers you know, and use TS/Ventrilo.

getting it all together on a pub server with strangers is near impossible. I think BF2's in-game squad system has raised the bar on FPS MP games. the system works well, for most mature, team oriented players, be they strangers or not. but getting into a server with like-minded team players (on a pub server) is just completely random and luck.

I do like the ideas above though, about squads benefitting (point-wise) from each others successes and those of the SL. Interesting stuff!

[imported_Tumbler]

Interesting Idea.

i have already modified my BF2 to reward flag taking and more importantly, flag holding... i have tripled the bleed rate for the team with less flags... so holding and taking flags is 3 times more important...

Sounds fun but until they stop Helo's from flag hopping and turn on some supply line rules so there is some order in which points have to be taken I'd vote against this change. ATM it's way too easy to just sneak around grabbing flags and with triple bleed rates one side would be at a major disadvantage on a large map. With no supply lines the defender is already at a major disadvantage as american forces can come off the carrier or other uncapturable places and fly anyhwere and take a wp.

This game would be so much better with a planetside like caputre system. Games would me a lot more intense if there was a clear front line to have to push through.