Points vs. Teamwork: How to discourage LoneWolves?

[imported_Tumbler]

I saw a video last night of someone who'd modded Strike at Karkland and added choppers and jets. (War in Iraq)

http://forums.totalbf2.com/showthread.php?t=21658&highlight=iraq

Now one thing I really liked in this was to massive amount of players working together and I thought about the experiences I'd had with Karkland and wondered what would need to change in the points system so that players would want to stay grouped together like we see in this video. Why would you want to do that? Because it looked friekin awesome.

My personal gameplay experience have been largely Lonewolf style and sometimes creating a squad to ask for supplies/art/etc. Whenever I choose to try and be a real squad leader or even be the commander my score suffers at the end of the round and I spend a lot less time doing stuff I enjoy. If I just go lone wolf I usually finish in top 3 and have a great time.

So what needs to change so that people like me, and I believe there are a lot of them, want to actually function as a team/squad with strangers? Points.

***Updated***
Idea i've got for squad benefits:
1. When you are in a squad you can only spawn off the squad leader. (if he's dead you have to wait)
2. When in a squad you get a kill assist point for any kill your squad makes.
***Updated***

The idea is not to give anyone an unfair advantage or make it easier for stat padders. This will make someone who wants to be a squadleader go out and recruit soldiers so it can affect his points. Squadies will stay in a squad if the squad leader is good.

[22CW Cainius]

this is why Im in 21CW.... i play pub servers with them....

[animateddave]

Well then everyone would become squad leaders and camp so members would spawn of him and he would get points. I find that most of the time the squads are just lip service. You have a full squad but they would be spread out over the entire map and no one would help each other. I joined a squad like this last night. I spawned on my leader to help him out but he did his best to ditch me. Its really a problem with the mindset of people than a problem with the game.

[Hollister360]

If squad leaders got points noobs would al be leaders

[Sox62]

I've been lurking,but registered just to respond to this.

I'm not a great player by any means,but I usually lone wolf.Why?Because the majority of the time it seems like the squad leader gives orders that are baffling,plain silly,or the squad doesn't work together at all.I've lost track of how many times I've spawned,and watched a squaddie taking off in a vehicle,and not picking up anyone in his or hers own squad.

I have an idea though,and maybe someone has already proposed it,but here it is.

Squad teammates equally share the points that are scored together.This would give a squad member incentive to pick teammates in a vehicle,or helicopter,to resupply,or med a teammate to continue killing to add to his own score.Actually,it isn't MY idea,it's a scoring system used in City of Heroes.You almost always score better when you are in a team(squad)than when you are alone.

I really think this would work in BF2,and would greatly add an incentive for people to form or join squads,and work more together.

Ok....flame away...lol

[batsTX]

Have to remember that the following don't get points

Assault - None
Anti Tank - None
Sniper - None
Special Ops - None

Medic - Heal Points
Engineer - Repair Points
Support - Ammo Points



To play lonewolf doesn't mean playing alone, you can setup a squad with other special ops and raise hell on the enemy commanders base.

That or snipers can be recon squads.

There is a script out that forces people to join a squad or they get kicked from the server.

[Inco]

I enjoy playing as a full 6 man squad and being the squad leader. However playing in this way greatly reduces the points i get.

Playing alone i can mass good points per round. However with being a sqd leader i am always hanging back to allow members to spawn on me.

I'd like to see some reward going to the sqd leader whos sqd appears as the best in thier team and maybe getting thier points doubled. Something like the commanders bonus.

It just feels at times that u can play the game sqd based and play it tactically well but have very little reward. On the other hand i could sit in a BH for an entire rnd as an engineer doing nothing but repairing and a mass huge points.

or even sit in a BH asa sniper go make some food, watch some TV and come back to have lots of points.

[Halious]

Perhaps in the same manner that a commander's score is the average of the whole team, the Squad leader's would be the average of his squad. As a Squad Leader, you will recieve no points for doing things (or certain things, perhaps only getting points for killing, not assisting), but your score will be the maximum points divided by the number of members besides you.

If your squad of five gets eighty points in total, divided by four you'll get twenty points. If a squad of three makes sixty, divided by two gets thirty points. If a squad of six gets ten points, you'll get squat. With this equation (exactly the same as the Commander getting the average), you will get the average score of all of your soldiers in your squad, always keeping you at the same range as them. This will encourage you as a leader to drive your squad to do really good.

Staying back and being a moving spawn point will then have very beneficial effects.

And because if the Squad leader gets this benefit, normal soldiers should get something too. How about if the greatest squads on each side get a twenty point bonus to each of their total scores? That'll also really pump up teamplay in a competetive way.

---

Then on the flipside: discouraging players from staying lone wolves. I've got a simple one.

Kills only give one point instead of two. Guys will be finding squads really quick.

[dmonkey]

This is one of the problems with BF2, there is no real cohesion. Everybody is just running back and forth between flags. That's why it is so hard to win as MEC on Karkand, any smart USMC will just bypass all the fighting and take the MEC from behind. Before the MEC team can realize it, it's already over.

[Sox62]

Perhaps in the same manner that a commander's score is the average of the whole team, the Squad leader's would be the average of his squad. As a Squad Leader, you will recieve no points for doing things (or certain things, perhaps only getting points for killing, not assisting), but your score will be the maximum points divided by the number of members besides you.

If your squad of five gets eighty points in total, divided by four you'll get twenty points. If a squad of three makes sixty, divided by two gets thirty points. If a squad of six gets ten points, you'll get squat. With this equation (exactly the same as the Commander getting the average), you will get the average score of all of your soldiers in your squad, always keeping you at the same range as them. This will encourage you as a leader to drive your squad to do really good.

Staying back and being a moving spawn point will then have very beneficial effects.

And because if the Squad leader gets this benefit, normal soldiers should get something too. How about if the greatest squads on each side get a twenty point bonus to each of their total scores? That'll also really pump up teamplay in a competetive way.

---

Then on the flipside: discouraging players from staying lone wolves. I've got a simple one.

Kills only give one point instead of two. Guys will be finding squads really quick.

That's not a solution.I'll gladly take one point before following some one that has no plan and gets me killed ad-nauseum.If I join a squad,I want it to be because it benefits me,and the squad as a whole,not because daddy says I have to.

You want people in squads?Start point sharing.

Squad leaders getting more points is a bad idea.They'll just start vote-kicks when they get angry because someone won't join his or hers particular squad so they can rack up points.

If you point share,just think of the damage you could do with two meds,two engineers,and two support guys if you're mostly in vehicles.There are all sorts of combinations that would work,depending on what you want to accomplish.

Until there is a tangible benefit to me joining a squad,I'll play lone wolf,or join as I see fit.

[imported_Tumbler]

I'm liking these suggestions, My idea was by no means perfect so finding a solution that will benefit squad play and promote ppl to work together is great.

Perhaps instead of squad leaders getting points for every spawn, he only gets it for spawns when his squad is full. But squad members get additional points as long as they kill what the squad leader is spotting.

You could also make teh squad leader get a penalty for dieing. If this were the case he'd probably hang back and give orders more as rushign into combat could cost him points.

[Dr-X]

I dont think there's any reason whatsoever to 'discourage' lone wolfers. I personally get a major kick out of working in a good squad, so I'll do anything I can to join or create a working squad. But my mate only EVER plays lone wolf, becasue that's how HE LIKES TO PLAY. And he's also whipping me in the score boards.

[Gulf_War_Syndrome]

I like the idea of some sort of point sharing or assist points for squad leaders.

The best squad leader I have ever had would finish rounds with a score of 0-0-0. We would rush the enemy home base or airfield, then sit and defend it for the whole round. Our squad as a whole would get "Best Squad" at the end of the round, but the squad leader was focussed on doing his job, hanging back and spotting incoming enemies for us and acting as a spawn if the enemy neutralised the point. No score for him at all though.

In my experience, when I'm a squad leader and do my job (hanging back and letting squad members capture the flags etc), my score will usually always suffer because of it.

[Sox62]

I like the idea of some sort of point sharing or assist points for squad leaders.

The best squad leader I have ever had would finish rounds with a score of 0-0-0. We would rush the enemy home base or airfield, then sit and defend it for the whole round. Our squad as a whole would get "Best Squad" at the end of the round, but the squad leader was focussed on doing his job, hanging back and spotting incoming enemies for us and acting as a spawn if the enemy neutralised the point. No score for him at all though.

In my experience, when I'm a squad leader and do my job (hanging back and letting squad members capture the flags etc), my score will usually always suffer because of it.

Yep.

And if there was squad point sharing,he would have been rewarded for his efforts.

I really believe point sharing in squads is a viable solution.It would promote teamwork,and people joining squads at the same time.

[Daz]

I feel its pretty much fine on city maps, logically if you are pratting around in a jeep miles away you aint going to get any score. If each side are all spawning from the same flag and all fighting head on, like at the start of a game at karkand. But it lacks on larger levels, usually people are left behind without a ride forcing them to either run for ages and waste their time running all the way across the map to find out the action has moved elsewhere, or sitting back at a flag doing nothing. If there was less selfish people maybe the teamwork would be alot better.

People can still go lone wolf while in a squad, so that wouldnt really change anything.