Artillery suggestions. "A must read"

[Cadde]

MAJOR ARTILLERY CHANGES

• Make the artillery a manned vehicle.
• Force it to have REALISTIC* reload times.
• Give the gunner a sight with angle and degrees indicators. **
• Each gun has it's own ammo supply with 5 to 7 rounds *** that will replenish itself by one round every 30 - 40 seconds.
• One artillery gun requires a gunner and a loader to have 200% faster load times than if it only had a gunner.
• The loader will be stationary in the gun but can still use his rifle to fend off any attackers. (Like in the AA tanks)

* By realistic i would suggest a logic yet game balanced time between 8 and 15 seconds.

** If the gunner is a veteran artillery user he can remember a coordinate that is "useful" instead of having to re-align his shots to be effective. (All artilley installations use the same coordinates no matter where they are placed for simplicity's sake. This requires all artillery installations to be in close proximity to each other and im not sure if this is the case so this may be "unrealistic" and not very useful. I would prefer individual co-ordinates.)



*** Give the artillery three to four diffrent kinds of shells.

1st is a HE round that has a large splash damage (Infantry)


2nd is a AT round that has armor piercing with limited splash (Tanks)

3rd is a smoke round similar to the smoke popped by tanks and APC's

4th round is basically a target indicator so that squad leaders can see where the artillery will hit before the effective shells will fall.
Reload time on the forth shell should be quicker and the indicator should be something similar to the "orders" smoke grenade that lies on the ground. (Visible range is higher than normal "orders" indicator as well)
The target indicator should only be visible to the friendly team but can be either way.

NOTE: There may be some use for a fifth round!!! Read the bottom part of this post!!!

SQUAD AND COMMANDER BASED CHANGES

• Squad leaders issue artillery orders directly to the artillery installations instead of through the commander but the commander can still see diffrent targets issued by the number X squad.
• The commander can issue targets just as normal. It's then up to the artillery gunner to fire.
• The commander share * the radar scan with the artillery installations so that the gunners can trust that the commander is giving a "non TK order".
• When the commander issues a arty strike he will gain 1 teampoint for each enemy kill within 10 seconds but no negatives.
• When the squad leader issues a arty strike he will gain 1 teampoint for each enemy kill withing 10 seconds and he will suffer half the negative points for team kill within the designated area. (He will also be punished togeather with the arty gunner if the teamkilled person wish to punish)
• When an artillery request is issued the gunner will either accept or decline and if he accepts an "inaccurate" range will be displayed on the sights of the arty gun and he may choose to fire for effect or fire a marker and request an "adjustment of fire" to the squad leader. (The arty gunner may very well make good use of his remebered co-ordinates if the target is a flag for example)
• Each gunner share the same radio channel as the squad leaders and commander so they can communicate "dynamically".

* By sharing the radar i'm not suggesting that the artillery will be able to issue a radar scan. They will only see the same dots on the map as the commander does.

SCORING BASED CHANGES

• Commanders gain 1 teampoint for every kill over 10 seconds when he issues a arty request, no punishments.
• Squad leaders gain 1 teampoint for every kill over 10 seconds when he issues a arty request, the teamkill negatives are divided equally with the arty gunner and punishment for TK is issued to both the squad leader and gunner.
• The commander is given more points for commanding squads to balance the loss of direct artillery control.
• 1 team point is awarded for demolishing a artillery installation. (Each soldier kill inside the arty installation is the same as before, 2 points.)
• Each arty installation is considered a flag defence area. Each kill within the area is awarded with a "defended flag" point. (This will make the artillery worth defending by people that just hang around to defend.)
• Engineers should not be able to repair destroyed assets (Arty, Radar and UAV) for 20 seconds after they have been demolished.

MINOR SUGGESTIONS

Give the engineer class a choice for either a wrench or a mortar.


This way every person has a choice of a mini-artillery that can be effective when three or more engineers team up.

The mortar will have just slightly more damage than the m203 and is aimed in a direction and angle fashion and cannot be "requested".
Shots fired must be adjusted by a squad member or via team chat.

Mortars are limited to fire between 35 and 80 degrees and has a effective range between 50 and 250 meters. (There should be range markings on the sight)

Each mortar has something like 6 - 8 rounds and can be supplied by the support class (The support class should not gain an excessive ammount of points for this)

Scoring remains the same!

Accuracy is not perfect, at 50 meters the spread should be around 1 meter and at 250 meters the spread should be around 25 meters.

Only one type of round can be fired. (Grenade type with 1 meter splash damage perhaps?)

Let me know what you guys think!!!




//CADDE


PS. I noted above about a fifth artillery round with i love!

If a enemy tank or APC is trying to rush a artillery installation the gunner should be ablde to DUMP the gun to the horisontal plane and fire a "ARTILLERY SHOTGUN" shell.
This shell is packed with .50 caliber pellets that will seriously damage the tank and litterally vaporize infantry.
Turning ratio is VERY slow and reloading is the same as the TOW.
Also if the arty gun has been dropped an engineer will be needed to restore it to it's normal state.

[jonnysanchez]

way too complicated for battlefield sorry to say

[rombaft]

for atilery : most stupid idea ever heard.

al the rest : please man, you are overreacting and lots of crap in your post, if this would all be forced into the game the game would loose tons of players.

ever heard about something called BALANCE ? some things aren't realistic for the balance, think about it

[navyseal-nl]

I think it is great!

The way art. is working now is to simple.

The only problem I see on a 16 person map is that to work with arty to need 2 person for this so there will only be 6 persons left. -1 because the commanders is not realy working so......

The idee of the mortar is also perfect.... this should relay be implemented in the game. It gives you an extra power towards tanks etc.

Great thinking.

Navyseal-NL
-OUT-

[Nachtdrache]

That and the fact that you won't find 6 ppl to man the artillery. It would be boring as hell anyway.
The rest is mostly obsolete but well thought. For the engineer I'd replace the mines and not the wrench.

[Joeskeppi]

Go outside, there's TREES and GRASS and stuff you know

[imported_Spuddy]

Arty needs a longer reload time the rest if fine as it is, no need for any major changes.

[Cadde]

Oh sorry... I forgot to mention that this is a way of giving the team a way of keeping the commander out of hogging the artillery for his own purpose and wander off to play as a normal soldier while he issues artillery at the enemy right in front of him.

I wanted to encourage teamplay in a diffrent way.

I know 6 people can be a tad mutch to keep out of the battle field but the enemy will do just the same right?
And there are people that will find this new feature alot of fun once they get the hang of how to actually kill enemy soldiers and tanks.
The balance lies in the fact that three gunners will now be able to get kills from artillery instead of just ONE commander.

There is alot of diffrent sullotions to this but i am getting tired of people that tries to mutiny the commander just because they want the artillery for themselves.
I have yet to see a commander that actually gives strategic orders and communicate with his squadleaders.
I play as squadleader 80% of the time and i only heard my commander speak through VOIP like 3 times the last month and that was just his pleed for repairing the artillery or to inform us that there was a guy in our base destroying the artillery and radar.

I want the commander to get points for doing commander stuff...
A good commander should get as many points as a good tank driver.
If you like teamwork then be a commander or engineer.
If you want kills then be a aircraft pilot or a artillery gunner.
If you want to be a good teamplayer and a good killer then play as assault/medic/Anti tank/support.

That and the fact that you won't find 6 ppl to man the artillery. It would be boring as hell anyway.
The rest is mostly obsolete but well thought. For the engineer I'd replace the mines and not the wrench.

Just because you dont want to play as a artillery gunner that doesn't mean that the rest of the ~1 million BF2 players feel the same way.

6 out of 32 players is 18% of the total players on the battlefield.
Theese 6 players still kills enough infantry so that you can cap a flag or move behind a nice smoke screen!
And if you are a squad leader you will find that the commander may give you enough information to move your squad AROUND the enemy tank and possible gunfire!

I think it is great!

The way art. is working now is to simple.

The only problem I see on a 16 person map is that to work with arty to need 2 person for this so there will only be 6 persons left. -1 because the commanders is not realy working so......

The idee of the mortar is also perfect.... this should relay be implemented in the game. It gives you an extra power towards tanks etc.

Great thinking.

Navyseal-NL
-OUT-

The way arty is working now is too simple and is only a distraction for the commander i might add.

On a 16 player map/server i agree that 2 guys and the commander is a lot of guys but it's not REQURED to have a reloader in the arty... It just makes it fire faster.
And on a 16 player map there is like 5 - 8 targets to shoot at so whats the point of sitting i the arty the whole round?
Just man it when you want to fire a shell at a sniper or a flag that is being overrun.

Im glad that you find the mortar idéa useful, that was partly what i was thinking about... I just hate it when 2 APC's and a tank rush a base and noone can kill them because they slaughter anyone that pops his head up.
Mortars will make them disperce and then you can fight them seperately.

for atilery : most stupid idea ever heard.

al the rest : please man, you are overreacting and lots of crap in your post, if this would all be forced into the game the game would loose tons of players.

ever heard about something called BALANCE ? some things aren't realistic for the balance, think about it

Ok first of all. Please elaborate WHY you think the artillery idéa is stupid.
And what do you mean by overreacting? What's the CRAP you are talking about?

And i am PRO balance. That's why i typed some scoring changes that will make up for some of the balance... If i would type a 20,000 letter post i think i could have included alot of balancing features but i guess guys like you would simply scroll through it and then comment that it isn't balanced.

Please be a little bit more specific when you type comments and if you are just here to complain about a change without really trying to see what it is then i beg you to keep your complaints to yourself.

way too complicated for battlefield sorry to say

It's complicated on paper. But in the game it will be just as simple as the SCUD launchers in Battlefield 1942...

Be positive and imagine how this would look in the game... The sight will have a targeting range when someone request a strike... And the better you get at atrillery the more kills you will get. That sounds alot more simple than flying a helicopter or shooting the m203 grenade launcher.


Thanks for your replies!

[Cadde]

Go outside, there's TREES and GRASS and stuff you know

Uhm... What's your contribution to this thread? That there is TREES and GRASS outside? What does that have to do with Battlefield in any way?

I dont know about you but i play Battlefield for 2 hours at the most every day.
I am practically surrounded by a forest and have plenty of grass to walk on.

When i walk my dog i usually spend 1 - 2 hours in the wildlife.
You see i have a life but i dont know about you?
Do you have a life or do you only post meaninless comments in threads like this where people just wanna know if their idéa is in any way useful to the community?

Why is it that every thread contains on of theese comments that only a 12 year old kid can come up with? (And the occasional no brainer)

If this remark wasn't aimed at me or my thread i withdraw my reply.
But i stand solid on the fact that theese kind of reply's belong in kindergarten or the sandbox...

[imported_Rafterman]

Sounds like it should be a new expansion pack -- BF2: Rolling Thunder

The first real-time artillery sim.

Artillery works just fine as it is.

[HowieMandel]

Go outside, there's TREES and GRASS and stuff you know

Good idea. However this is a forum regarding BF2. Thus there will be you know, posts regarding the game. Im sure most folks here have a life, outside of bf2. However, as stated already, since this is a bf2 forum,
EXPECT TALK, in general, (in the general section i might add) to be about.......

BF2.

Does that make sense?

[ikilled007]

I like your ideas a lot. I loved arty in Desert Combat with Spec ops and snipers spotting for it with their binoculars. I loved doing that!

[HowieMandel]

I agree with 007. The arty as it is now is fine. But, still, a more team orriented type arty would be better. I think, the arty as it is now, was designed in mind to be also working with the now defunct, laser spotter. With that gone, i think it probally took out some of the "action" that dice had intended for it to be.
And of course, im gonna be a stuck tape recording, and say that most maps, certainly have too many flags. Thats the games downfall. However saying that, I love Bf2.
I just think DC had a more "fun" factor. But because of the number of flags. In my opinon.

[iewgnem]

Why not make a mod, instead of pressuring EA to change the very nature of their game...

[Old-Trick]

First of all let me explain that I am retired from the military and was in an arty unit for 25 years. I am VERY familiar with all aspects of arty. Although your ideas are basically sound, they are not in fact accurate. Reload times on an arty sp piece, (sp=self propelled) are more like 40 seconds.

I too have had concerns about how the arty portion of this game should be laid out. But I understand that this is a game and it was designed and built by gamers. I don't think they had the resources available to them to make certain portions of this game true to fact.

Note: The 40 sec reload time I referred too is based on M-109 prior to the release of the Paladin.