Should TK System be removed?

[TGL|Badlizzard]

It's not a yes or no question, it shouldn't be removed yet it needs to be revamped.

[JarEme]

I agree that sometimes mines can be hard to spot but if you do happen to go over one, why punish anyway? ... It is NOT an intentional team kill .. but these noobs just dont realise! ...

Anyway, ranting about it aint gonna make any difference .. noobs will still punish for unintentional TK's.

Don't get me wrong. Punishing for an unintentional TK is definitely extremely lame behavior. I'm just trying to say that it's a lot easier to accidentally hit a mine than some people (you) seem to think it is and a system that punishes the person who hits the mine is going to lead to trouble.

[CamelToePie]

I agree.

[Major_Rosha]

Some sort of TK system needs to be in place. I agree the current system has it's faults. I see too many people just always hit that Punish option no matter what. Personally, I rarely punish unless it was an obviously intentional team kill. As a server admin, I will Warn and Kick people for punishing others for deaths that was totally their own fault or at least not the fault of the person punished. (I just wish BF2CC showed me that portion of the system text ... who TK'd who and who punished so I could monitor that easier).

[imported_HorrorBusiness]

I really don't see the need for the punish system. The -2s of old worked fine in my opinion. Infact, I think the only option should be forgive. If you choose not to forgive then they get the -2.

[Thelron]

It is only easy to accidentally hit a mine if you are paying *no* attention whatsoever to your screen (OR have fallen prety to the idiotic decision to remove mine warnings along with the rest of the overlay stuff when you tap the left alt key by mistake. THAT pisses me off because most folks don't even realize it if they turn the overlay off and then hit a friendly mine, they just think someone blew them up purposefully since there was no warning on their screen.

The TK system should stay, it is a GREAT idea, in that you are given the option of forgiving both an honest mistake (rounding a corner during a firefight and unloading a shotgun into the guy who is suddenly in front of you out of reflex rather than "Ohh a friendly let's have some fun) and an unavoidable circumstance (you ran up next to an enemy vehicle just as some teammate blew it up/bombed it and got caught in the blast. Its pretty hard to see you and even harder to trust that you can get the kill before my squad and I are torn up, so expect me to keep shooting up the vehicle. Or, someone blows a chopper out of the sky and just out of sight (and right under it) was a friendly squad trying to hide in its blind spot. Oops!). IMO it really should go as far as refunding the lost teamscore simply because of the ease with which the system credits for a teamkill.

The whole system needs to be seriously revamped though. For one, it often takes a painfully long time for the names to show up over a target (not a HUGE problem for infantry usually as most of the uniforms are different but it is a VERY big problem when you're looking at a vehicle from a distance owing to the fact that so much 'tank boosting' goes on), and for another the existing FoF indicators on some things (most notably to me, the TV missile mode of the attack choppers) fail miserably in some circumstances. Any time I see a chinese attack chopper flying around, if it isn't way far away I have a very hard time seeing the 'no shoot' box because it blends in with the camo pattern, so I get to choose between popping a shot off at a (probably) hostile or switching back to gun mode, waiting for the tag to show up, and then hoping I haven't lost my shot due to the time it takes to get from TV mode and back into it again. I made a friendly pilot very unhappy because of that the other day but I really didn't see *any* indicator over the thing at all (open box, x'ed box, or bright flashy neon lights) so I probably would have repeated the incident if I had to do it over (and yes, I *did* look at it for a bit before firing just to check if it was a friendly reparing or a hostile that had stolen a chopper and was now trying to cap the flag).

They need to fix the tags so they are consistently correct, are actually intelligable (your FoF indicator should *not* be able to blend in with the target), and are presented much more swiftly if your sights are on a target (friendlies should always be marked immediately. I've seen sever instances where a couple folks try to hunt an enemy sniper only to see each other in the distance and open up, because the names don't show up for a good 5 seconds at 'long' range and it looks like the other guy is getting ready to shoot. Plus, the sniper camo tends to look similar at a distance).

The biggest change is that the default needs to be changed to 'forgive.' If someone comes up and shoots you in the face or commits some other act of intentional griefing, you *will* hunt out your punish key. If you die suddenly and are more interested in your respawn options than the couple bits of letters you can see behind the map chances are you died in an accident or got yourself killed and so you aren't looking to punish but it happens anyway because you're not paying attention to that part of your screen (maybe it should be a dialog box instead of the usual 'page up/page down' stuff).

So, the system should stay, but it should probably be suspended (or at least TK allowances should be doubled/trebled) until the whole system is sorted out (stuff like transport drivers being punished because someone rammed them, people *joining* and being punished off the server before they can finish the spawn routine, people dying as they eject from a moving vehicle (aircraft especially), insta-death from any moving object instead of adding in something to simulate a person's natural instint to avoid the rumbling tank (which while 3d sound and all makes it possible to place, it is still a LOT harder to tell if you're right next to something or not than it should be if you just *die* from a vehicle tapping you on its way by.

Also- IMO 'team damage' needs to be a punish/forgive situation as well, but only for determining if the person deserves the point hit or not. There are a lot of times when soeone saves my butt from a couple bad guys but hits me with a stray round or two and gets dinged for "don't hurt your teammates, let them die like dogs instead."

[Robmonster]

Mines are clearly marked for team members to SEE and AVOID and if they run into them, then points should be deducted from the noob(s) and NO punishment for the person who layed them.

Yeah, but we all know that doesnt happen....

I recently got punished for a mine TK. I asked why they drove over my clearly marked mine and they replied "I was on foot you idiot" . If he was on foot then he had EVEN MORE TIME to see , and avoid, the mine.

If you kill yourself on a ine then you should not be able to puniosh, after all the person who laid the mine has no control over your actions. All other TKs shouldbe punishable as the person doing the killing has control over what happens. Even C4 detonations are controlled by the player, and if you catch a team mate in the 'splode then you that should be punishable.

[gehirnstav]

Alway remember: If a Teamkill happens, someone kills a Teammate. Thats a bad thing for the one who is killed and the whole team. A punishment is a good thing here to teach people to be careful.
If you are engineer you dont have to lay mines all over the map. Just mine ONE spot and watch this spot so you can warn others. If you arent able to watch you teammates use C4.
If people who lay mines get more tks than enemy kills they should stop laying mines. Even if there wouldn't be any tk punishment they would not help their team. The real problem is not the negativ score a tk gets, but the ticketloss for the team.

[CamelToePie]

"Im going to ask you a bunch of questions and I want them answered immediatley. Who is your daddy and what does he do?"

"I hope you have enough room for my fist because im going to ram it in your stomach"

- Arnold Schwarzenegger

[Chris369]

This is what annoys me the mst about BF2. People are so bloody stupid its unbeleivable. Artillery - can they not see the huge red circles on the map? If your stupid enough to walk into it then should at least forgive. I forgive most of the tk's i get, but when ever i tk, i get punished. Drives me mad

[FM_Echo_One]

TK system needs to be reworked, not removed. If you remove it, people would just hop into a tank and start blasting away (friendly or foe). At least with the TK system, people use discretion before blasting away.

[imported_Ares]

I think it shouldnt because I was just playing in Mashtuur City I saw that there was some guy with 158 points in a 32 man map due to the blackhawk, so the start of the next round I got a gunner seat, really happy that I may be racking in some points, I know its a cheap vehicle to fly in on that map but I thought Id do it anyways, so there was the guy with 158 points standing outside the blackhawk as he started chucking nades inside the helicopter and killed six teammates just to get the gunner seat, The tk punish system wasnt working so he got to stay and play.racking in points, just like the previous round.

[Ghiest]

Just reworked not removed, it was a good idea hastily implemented imo.

[Swanston]

YES remove it! and put in a different system!

The only way how it will work is if it goes something like this:
TK Forgived = 0pts
TK Punished = 1-2pts taken away
TK Left 'unvoted' = default to Forgiven, 0pts

Not:
TK Forgived, 2pts taken away horse sh!t
TK Punished, 8pts taken away tardness.
TK by default punished if noob doesn't know how to vote.

[Sundown_TX]

cmon we all know EA cant fix anything, better to just remove it all together and let the admins or some thirdparty server add-on resolve it. Remember the last time EA tried to "fix" something? (patch 1.01 im looking at YOU!). That created more problems than it fixed.