Dos and Dont's For The Effective Squad Leader

[|FOXHOUND| Boss]

Uh, yeah so we dont like 1G's opinion . LOL. No j/k. You can't just come in and say that it is dumb without giving some sort of reason Besides the reasons that we had for saying it isn't a good/or bad idea, what do you think 1G?

[l=lCoBrAl=l]

Actually a medic is not someone a squad leader should be. It's like taking away another spawn point (kind've). Let's say there is 2 medics in a squad (which is a fair amount and a likely amount). If you're one of them and you die. That leaves you to either spawn with your squad leader, or be revived by him. If he dies, that takes away the chance of being revived and spawning with him. If someone else was a medic besides him, they can revive you. Even if they didn't they could still spawn with the SL. See my point? I'm not saying that if the SL is medic than you're going to lose the game. I'm jsut saying that an Ideal squad would have a medic as a SL. Am I the only one who thinks things through like this?

[BurnTheWeed]

^^^
As a medic, if you die someone can pick up your kit and revive you.

[GatorDawg]

Actually a medic is not someone a squad leader should be. It's like taking away another spawn point (kind've). Let's say there is 2 medics in a squad (which is a fair amount and a likely amount). If you're one of them and you die. That leaves you to either spawn with your squad leader, or be revived by him. If he dies, that takes away the chance of being revived and spawning with him. If someone else was a medic besides him, they can revive you. Even if they didn't they could still spawn with the SL. See my point? I'm not saying that if the SL is medic than you're going to lose the game. I'm jsut saying that an Ideal squad would have a medic as a SL. Am I the only one who thinks things through like this?

No, I don't agree. If you're playing in an effective squad, as SL, you should be taking less fire than anyone on the squad. You should be the least likely to die in any given situation, or else your squad isn't doing things right.You should be hanging back, behind your squad, and only providing occasional support fire when it's needed. This is perfect for a medic. When one of your squad is taken out, you can revive and heal from behind while your squad-mates are engaging the enemy. 9 times out of 10 the enemy isn't going to target the guy in back of the squad that isn't doing anything, they are going to target the players they are taking fire from.

If you're SL as any of the other classes, you severely limit that class, as you should be severely dropping your fire rate and finding cover in a firefight so the enemy doesn't target you, and so that squaddies who die and aren't able to be revived can spawn back into the fight. As a non-medic, this of course takes away from the overall firepower in your squad. Especially if you consider that another player, in such a case, will be playing medic and will also not be firing but instead be preoccupied with healing and reviving. I.e.:

1) Non-medic SL and a non-SL medic = two effective guns removed from the squad and only one person healing.
2) medic SL and another medic on squad = two effective guns removed from the squad, but two people healing/reviving
3) medic SL and no other medics = one effective gun removed from squad and one person healing/reviving

- The LAST thing a support or assault player should be doing is hanging back and not firing very much.
- If you run into a tank when playing SL as AT, you're going to hit the tank. Who do you think the tank will then target?
- Sniper is ok, if you know what you're doing. Of course, if you hang back, shoot and don't get a headshot, again you're likely to be targeted. But medic is still more of an advantage as if you're hanging back spotting and sniping as SL, there's gotta be a medic out there healing and reviving.
- Spec-ops is ok too, but pretty much the same probs as with sniper.

I'm not saying that medic is the only effective class to play as SL, but all things being equal, it is usually the best choice.

[Hugh G. Wrection]

I recently started playing as Commander to see what that was all about. It's quickly became apparent that the Commander ability is 100% dependent on his squad leaders abilities and whether or not they actually understand their role as squad leader. There are very few people out there who actually perform well as a squad leader, which in my mind comes down to one thing...

realizing what a squad leader can do that squad member can not -- get supplies dropped right on top of them and request UAV. Artillery requests are irrelevant since the Commander can scan the battlefield and identify where artillery is and is not appropriate.

Supplies are the key request though. Supplies are critical and the Commander doesn't know who could really use them, only the squad does. If squad leaders don't request them, your stuck just dropping them on random squads or saving them for when your commander assets get destroyed.

[bladeslap]

...but I find it more effective to call it "Voice only or VOIP only"...people who are able to communicate without typing usually seem to be more inclined to stick together.

That's exactly what I do, and exactly what I've found.

[Hugh G. Wrection]

I think it would be great if a Commander could reassign the Squad Leader role, ie. make someone else in a squad the squad leader. Then, if you find that a squad leader is out flying around in a plane all map while the rest of his squad in on the ground trying to take objectives, you could make of them the new squad leader.

[l=lCoBrAl=l]

That post about medics being perfect for a SL is computer stupid. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I see what you're saying, but then again like I said, It's as if taking away from another spawn. Did you even completely read my post? Or just scan through a bit. Seriously I'm not saying SL CAN"T be medic, I'm just saying that for an all the classes in a squad, it's best if SL isn't a medic. Afterall medics have to be up there doing firing. LIke you said, they have to go up and revive people. They can't hang back. Which is exactly why they shouldn't be SL.

[GatorDawg]

That post about medics being perfect for a SL is computer stupid. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I see what you're saying, but then again like I said, It's as if taking away from another spawn. Did you even completely read my post? Or just scan through a bit. Seriously I'm not saying SL CAN"T be medic, I'm just saying that for an all the classes in a squad, it's best if SL isn't a medic. Afterall medics have to be up there doing firing. LIke you said, they have to go up and revive people. They can't hang back. Which is exactly why they shouldn't be SL.

Oh I read through it all. It's just that it was quite disjointed and lacking in reason and logic.

What you fail to grasp is that, as you put it: "medics have to be up there doing firing" is exactly the opposite of the needed role for a medic or SL in an effective squad.

Picture this scenario. You are moving through a map with your squad. As SL you are in the middle of, or near the rear of your squad. Perhaps support or assault is on point. You come across a group of enemies. What happens?

Well, the first thing that should happen is the SL should look for cover to stay out of the brunt of the fight, other members of the squad immedialty engage the enemy. If you're SL as support, you've just taken away the full effectiveness of your PKM or SAW from your squad. So, your squad is now operating at a disadvantage due to a lack of proper support fire. If you're SL as assault, you've done the same with your assault rifle and M203. You've also removed the most heavily armored members of your squad from the front line of the fight. If you're medic, you hang back, out of the worst of the enemy fire. You are not likely to get targeted by the enemy, since they are more likely to target those units that have opened fire on them. When a squad member is hurt, as SL medic, you can quickly run out, drop a couple of med packs, and head back for cover. Or, run out, do a diving revive, and again head for cover. Trust me. If an enemy is taking direct fire from a ripping PKM, 99.999999% of the time THEY WILL NOT say "I have 10 rounds a second bouncing around my head from that stationary PKM over there, but oh look! There's some other guy darting out behind him. I think I'll re target and start all over again on that fresh guy!" It doesn't happen.

Your argument is that a medic is more likely to die, so you'll take the spawn point away from your squaddies more often? If this is the case, then I'm afraid you really have no idea how an effective squad should work. It's very simple - The SL should be staying out of the action more than anyone else on the team. If you do this with practically any class other than a medic, you remove an important firing element from the squad.

Inf on inf, AT might be fine, but if you come across armor, and your SL is AT, he's going to be the one most likely targeted by the armor. So, bye-bye spawn point!
Same with Spec-ops. Too much risk in trying to drop C4 on a tank. You have to move into the open to do it. There's a good chance you'll be spotted by enemy troops or the tank will see you before you get to it. Again, bye-bye spawn point. And so on.

A medic can hang back under cover and not fire and still not remove a heavily needed firing element. His team can run to him or he can make a dash for his team. He can even lob med packs out from his cover position. If team mates are tagged, and the firing is to intense for the medic to move into the open, then he can remain hidden and wait for his team to re spawn on him.

And, in the eventuality that you do die as a medic SL - 1) If you have a second medic on your team, he can revive you. Thus, the point you were trying to make becomes completely moot. 2) If you don't have a second medic, another member of your team can grab your gear and revive you, and again, the point you were trying to make becomes completely moot.

Any way you slice it, it should be painfully obvious that, all things being equal, generally a medic is the more preferable choice for SL.

[l=lCoBrAl=l]

Dude I still think everything you say conflicts with everything else you say. Let me put it a different way. Let's say a medic is kinda like a respawn. So if you had 2 medics in a squad and one squad leader. That likes 3 spawn points. If the SL is a medic, that's only 2 left. May as well spawn with the leader and get full gear back. Meanwhile, medics can be reviving people. If they die, they spawn with you. As squad leader you say you have to hang back. But you say they have to be in teh action, well they're always gonna be in action with everyone else. In fact probably more. So if a medic dies trying to revive somebody, what do they do? spawn with SL. If a SL/Medic trys to save somebody and he dies, well you only got one medic left. 2 spawns taken away so to speak.

I like that somebody actually thinks of something a different way. If you're not in a clan or are interested, visit www.repeat-offenders.org

[GatorDawg]

Let's say a medic is kinda like a respawn. So if you had 2 medics in a squad and one squad leader. That likes 3 spawn points. If the SL is a medic, that's only 2 left.

I'm sorry, but that makes little sense. In your example above, if the SL is a medic, you've still got three spawnpoints. Think about it! If you have two medics in your squad and neither of them are the SL then you have three virtual spawn points: The actual SL spawnpoint, and two people who can revive. If the SL is a medic, you've STILL got three spawn points: The actual SL spawnpoint and two people who can revive.

Now, yes, if the SL medic gets tagged, that's two spawn points that gets tagged at the same time. But, the only time your way would come into being an advantage is in the event that the SL got tagged and the other medic was not able to revive him AND no other player on the squad was able to pick up his bag and revive him. However, in order to gain that advantage in this one specific instance, which may occur only a few times on any given map, or even not at all, you are willing to sacrifice the effectiveness of your entire squad AT ALL TIMES by making one of the assault classes the SL. Not a good trade off if you ask me.

The squad leader should not be fully engaged in a firefight. Or, at least, should be the member of the squad least likely to engage. His first priority should not be shooting it out with enemies, but instead it should be staying alive. This is to ensure that the SL spawnpoint remains intact for players who get tagged. Agreed? So, who is it that you want, in place of a medic, not fully contributing to laying fire down on the enemy?

Support? - Well, you've just effectively removed your suppressive fire element, an armored soldier, and your biggest gun from your squad.

Assault? - Again you've removed an armored solder capable of lobbing grenades at distance from your front line.

AT? - Might work ok, but you're going to be the primary target of every tank and APC you come across and if you don't win, there goes your SL spawnpoint, and probably the rest of the squad as well. If the AT SL goes down at the hands of a tank, how easy do you think it will be for the medics to run out to where the tank saw him and killed him to revive? Or, do you not want your AT SL to engage tanks, and if so, then what use is he? Why not add yet another medic to the squad?

Ops? - Same deal, you run out into the open to drop that C4, and many times, bye-bye spawnpoint. If you're throwing it at a tank, you'd better make sure the tank doesn't see you first, or that there's no enemy inf with their eyes on that tank. If you're dropping it in the street and a hidden inf takes you out, he's going to see the medic too when he comes to revive.

Sniper? - Also might work ok if you've got a sniper that knows what he's doing, but a few misplaced shots are going to attract attention.

Engy? - Generally speaking, probably the second best choice for SL in my opinion, IF you need an engy on the squad. But again, that shot gun is nice to have pumping full bore in close quarters.

I've read your posts, and I've thought about it over and over, and I keep coming to the same conclusion. I'll say it again: Under most circumstances, all things being equal, the medic is generally the most advantageous class to play as SL.

[WrAth2110]

Dont play as sniper? Man you can deliever some killer spawn points to your squad through sniper.

[WrAth2110]

I think it would be great if a Commander could reassign the Squad Leader role, ie. make someone else in a squad the squad leader. Then, if you find that a squad leader is out flying around in a plane all map while the rest of his squad in on the ground trying to take objectives, you could make of them the new squad leader.

Not talking about myself, but not all commanders are responsible.

[Flares]

Some good points, the only tactic I take issue with is the squad leader hanging back idea. In theory this is good, but unfortunately in reality, unless the squad leader keeps moving forward to an objective, often people will run around like headless chickens and the squad looses cohesion. In reality, the majority of players haven't had military training, have not played in serious clans, or are just generally clueless about how a squad should work.
So, often it's best if a squad leader leads from the front, and if threatened, takes cover, whilst calling out and assigning threats on VOIP. If he gets taken down, then the medics are there to revive him.
Regarding the SL class, it's up to the individual and how the squad is working, but if leading from the front, I don't go medic, you're best going assault usually, the rifle grenades give you that extra point firepower and you have the smoke grenade to provide the rest of the squad with cover.
As a squad leader, I also sometimes go Spec Ops. The G36C is very accurate, at close quarters very effective on auto and you have a good sprint speed to get you into cover.
If I'm leading I'll avoid all the other classes. AT and Support are too slow and attract attention, snipers are for sniping, and need work alone or in twos to be effective. I will go medic occasionally, if nobody else wants to, or if I'm driving an APC, transport ground vehicle or helo.

[GatorDawg]

Some good points, the only tactic I take issue with is the squad leader hanging back idea. In theory this is good, but unfortunately in reality, unless the squad leader keeps moving forward to an objective, often people will run around like headless chickens and the squad looses cohesion.

Good communication on VOIP usually solves this problem. Call out a point man and give him a clear destination. If someone is refusing to listen to your VOIP commands as SL, that's what the 'kick from squad' feature is for.