[FAIL] Game won't have mods or public dedicated server

[CptainCrunch]

Re: [FAIL] Game won't have mods or public dedicated server

Not buy the game.

Crunch

[Lordsethonan]

Re: [FAIL] Game won't have mods or public dedicated server

I see it this way.

Modding was never supposed to be possible. Modding started cos early PC games used standard files with a different extension, Doom being the prime example; once the cat was out of the bag, people started having fun with it, and it became a "expected" standard feature.

Console since their inception don't support modding in the sense Pc players are used to know. There is modding for consoles but you have to mod your console AND build a new image of your game.

One of the differences between PC players and Console players is precisely this: console players tend to judge games based on its merits and the developers capacity, PC players judge games based on modability, buying and swallowing pretty mediocre games just because "you can always mod them".

Modding is nice, but not vital; developers are in their right to no release any tool to help you twist their engine around; we should instead demand that they don't release crappy games that need a mod build to be of any interest. I think it's pretentious to dismiss a game just because it's not moddable.

Now, this doesn't mean I can't recognize the effort and labor involved in making a good mod; i just simply believe you shouldn't buy games to see what mods can you get for them; and that a game having no mod support doesn't mean is a bad game.

and yes I'm aware a couple developers started as modders; but it's a very reduced ammount of people that managed to achieve this, it's not a general rule.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: [FAIL] Game won't have mods or public dedicated server

Modding was never supposed to be possible. Modding started cos early PC games used standard files with a different extension, Doom being the prime example; once the cat was out of the bag, people started having fun with it, and it became a "expected" standard feature.

The fact that it was "never meant to be possible" is misleading. You should have phrased it "it was never anticipated". Because if the concept was impossible at first, who would anticipate it to bloom? Fact is, modding is possible now, and it shapes games. The ammount of copies for BF2 sold solely with mods in mind would reach into tens of thousands at least. BF1942 got a second life with the release of DC. Modding sells games.

One of the differences between PC players and Console players is precisely this: console players tend to judge games based on its merits and the developers capacity, PC players judge games based on modability, buying and swallowing pretty mediocre games just because "you can always mod them".

Actually, you have this completely wrong. Over the time PC playerbase has proven itsself to be critically far more rough on the games. In order for a PC game to succeed, it had to be very good in a wide variety of aspects. Console market recently has turned out to be guided by the same principles massmedia is, games are bought, played through and discarded like comfort goods are. The mindset of a console player vs PC player directly proves it. People on consoles are all about "completing" the games, and in recent times getting all the crap along with the completion, which had nothing to do with the games themselves. Sales also reflect this, as purely mediocre games can sell millions of copies.

Modding is nice, but not vital; developers are in their right to no release any tool to help you twist their engine around; we should instead demand that they don't release crappy games that need a mod build to be of any interest. I think it's pretentious to dismiss a game just because it's not moddable.

Fact is, you cant cater to everyone. But you can sure as hell release a game which modders would be able to make sure would offer something to a wide range of audience. Modding extends the life of the game, builds a solid group of loyalists around it, creates additional hype and PR for free.

It also fixes games for which devs dont either have the time or resources.

and yes I'm aware a couple developers started as modders; but it's a very reduced ammount of people that managed to achieve this, it's not a general rule.

This number is actually pretty significant. A hardworking modder can easily end up in the videogame industry.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: [FAIL] Game won't have mods or public dedicated server

But it's more the exception than the rule; also consider all the mods that never get to see the light of day because of the lack of resources not directly related to the modders abilities and capacities.

I could agree that console players are more easily influenced by magazines and websites reviews; and are more concerned about the perception of "coolness" a game has, cue the Halo fanboys. You can't deny however, that the staples of console gaming are much mor epolished and complete in their original incarnation, since you can't really patch console games.

And ok yes, I phrased it wrong, I blame the language barrier; modding was never anticipated.

I personally dislike iD games because they are not really finished; they are like construction blocks. I respect the desire of some people to get the tools to mod and discard the in-box game. When I bought Doom 3 I didn't think "oh gee, I wonder what mods will get made for this game". But that's me.

EDIT: I for one, am not amused with the current generation of consoles getting the PC patch rot; i can tolerate patching on PCs since there are a myriad of different manufacturers and protocols, drivers etc; but on consoles, if a game needs patching means it got programmed badly. The Orange box was the prime example of what you get when you port a PC game to console directly.

Just to be clear on this, I don't think modding is bad; I wish I could have the time to play and make mods; but what I do believe is that making mods shouldn't be the main reason to get a particular game, or a particularly strong selling point. If that were the case, why not release a game-making game? "Make your own FPS" for 100 bucks or something.

and the modding fever can be implemented in consoles too; tough the only worthwhile example nowadays is Little Big Planet, wich you could call "limited" but it's there.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: [FAIL] Game won't have mods or public dedicated server

But it's more the exception than the rule; also consider all the mods that never get to see the light of day because of the lack of resources not directly related to the modders abilities and capacities.

90% of all mods never see the light of the day, and it is directly associated with mod groups, the people. Not the game. Mod teams break apart, people throw a fit, global mods are a test of character and patience.

I could agree that console players are more easily influenced by magazines and websites reviews; and are more concerned about the perception of "coolness" a game has, cue the Halo fanboys. You can't deny however, that the staples of console gaming are much mor epolished and complete in their original incarnation, since you can't really patch console games.

In NES days? Yeah. Even in PS2 days. But with internet connection, networking, modern console games are released just as buggy as PC games. But quality is not what makes sales on the console market. Have you seen people go into technical detail when it comes to games like Gears of War?

And ok yes, I phrased it wrong, I blame the language barrier; modding was never anticipated.

Its OK. Anhow, modding is a huge, positive addition to the customer aswell as the developer.

I personally dislike iD games because they are not really finished; they are like construction blocks. I respect the desire of some people to get the tools to mod and discard the in-box game. When I bought Doom 3 I didn't think "oh gee, I wonder what mods will get made for this game". But that's me.

Not every game is bought for its modding capacity. Most games are not. Its primarily those franchises which have proven in the past to successfully cater to a large audience and have successful mods. Half Life, Battlefield, now STALKER. Modern singleplayer FPS games experience is hugely affected (for the better) if you know which minimods to look for.

Just to be clear on this, I don't think modding is bad; I wish I could have the time to play and make mods; but what I do believe is that making mods shouldn't be the main reason to get a particular game, or a particularly strong selling point. If that were the case, why not release a game-making game? "Make your own FPS" for 100 bucks or something.

Thats not how this works. You can pretty much discard car customization based on this logic.

and the modding fever can be implemented in consoles too; tough the only worthwhile example nowadays is Little Big Planet, wich you could call "limited" but it's there.

Modding on the consoles is entirely up to the owners of the platform. And right now Microsoft has categorically denied any chances of mods for the platform, even though Unreal 3 would technically be able to support it.

[Vreki]

Re: [FAIL] Game won't have mods or public dedicated server

One can only hope modding tools will be available with BF3, otherwise, what can we do?

I hear that the old Quake Engine has gone open source, maybe the modders should free themselves from proprietary engines?