Thanks be to the gods!

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

I found that if my gunner was no good (and you can tell, when you hover for 5 seconds behind the enemy spawn, and spot tank/infantry, and guy won't shoot them) that making a very low pass over the enemies is enough to make them bail and wait for a squadmate to spawn on you in the chopper.

LOL, pretend you are crashing

Crunch

[jake_]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

Here is how you fix this problem.

Get friends to gun for you.

omg I am a genius.

That would be great, but as you might have noticed by how he acts on this forum, it seems unlikely that he has many friends who want to play with him.

Just wish there was automatic voip channel inside vehicles or something so you could yell orders at those pubbies. ^^

I've always wanted something like that for tanks and choppers and whatnot. It would be SO USEFUL. If I had a gunner in a tank (not much of a chopper person) I would also try to get them to join my squad or vice versa just so I could talk to them and try to give them some commands.

[H4yd3n]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

To each his own. I'll miss soloing, but I guess it's nothing for me to ***** over.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

This is painful. Its like IW forums all over again. Theres so many extreme opinions based on ignorance, that its demoralizing.

Even if you dislike soloing, where is this coming from?

Do you realize that no one in the game likes people like you who every single respawn run straight for the chopper and wait for it to respawn?

Last time I checked the game isn't called "Battlefield: Chopper Whoring" now is it?

I'm fairly certain about how the games are laid out: you have two teams of infantry who fight each other with the assistance of vehicles.

It really is 2007 all over again.

People here have absolutely no clue what is it like for a pilot to be pitted into a chopper with a completely useless gunner 99 times out of 100. There were times when I made an experiment of sorts. I flew the chopper for 4 hours straight, and I didnt get a single person to fly with me who even knew the basics. Do you realize how frustrating that is? Youre not gimped by bad teammates or a terrible commander if youre playing infantry. A bad member in a chopper team in BF2 meant that no matter how good you were, your vehicle truly did represent the "weakest link" analogy. The cluelessness in this thread really shows that you people will never realize or understand how frustrating that can be for a player, because you either have never experienced it, or merely experienced it very shortly. And last time I checked, BF has been about "combined arms experience", not "infantry fighting with some vehicles being drivable", which means that everyone could find something they liked in the game and focus on that.

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

It really is 2007 all over again.

People here have absolutely no clue what is it like for a pilot to be pitted into a chopper with a completely useless gunner 99 times out of 100. There were times when I made an experiment of sorts. I flew the chopper for 4 hours straight, and I didnt get a single person to fly with me who even knew the basics. Do you realize how frustrating that is? Youre not gimped by bad teammates or a terrible commander if youre playing infantry. A bad member in a chopper team in BF2 meant that no matter how good you were, your vehicle truly did represent the "weakest link" analogy. The cluelessness in this thread really shows that you people will never realize or understand how frustrating that can be for a player, because you either have never experienced it, or merely experienced it very shortly. And last time I checked, BF has been about "combined arms experience", not "infantry fighting with some vehicles being drivable", which means that everyone could find something they liked in the game and focus on that.

It's like having an idiot at F2 of the APC you're driving, who doesn't know to EMP at incoming enemy walker.

It's like having an idiot gunner at F2 of your tank, giving away your position by shooting machinegun at enemy walker while you're trying to do a flanking movement.

It's like having an idiot flying the transport and bail out without warning.

Unfortunately, dealing with noobs is part of the BF games since 1942.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

I can understand that Chris. I wasn't bad at soloing and could usually balance out an above average heli player on it. Not an expert player, but I held my own. What you say is also true that the heli is a part of the gameplay of BF2 as well as the battlefield. People who want to play the heli should and those that want to solo should as well.

I also remember being banned from servers whenever I got into the heli. Being told to get out so that a mate can gun, without me firing a shot first. Being blown up because someone else thought they should have it. Having TK votes against me because they wont get off the heli or runway. Shooting AA missiles at the heli to have them veer off to who-knows-where. Getting into tanks just in time for them to be blown up from some great distance. People using the little script programs to steer that missle better. Waiting for a gunner forever for one to get in to only use it as a taxi and bail.

I think thats just years of frustration coming out. Ignorance, for some. Stupidity for others. Call it what you will, but most are fed up and unfortunatly it dumbs down a game next go around.

The game should be fun, not a chore and something tells me most didnt have fun.

Also, Im not saying its right or wrong or whatever. I feel stuck in the middle. I also feel that BF2 air warfare wasn't balanced with air vs ground fighting. Thats just my opinion and its not going to change.

Its like Avalanche said also, noobs since 1942 I like that.

Crunch

[Kylee!]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

Oh lawd! Ignorance of these kids! Noobs! Ahhhh!"

Like I said. Get friends to play with = problem solved.

Especially if they're good.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

Maybe this is just semantics; but I'm reading my BF2 DVD case; and nowhere does it say you are in for "combined arms experience", it does say you have at your disposal the latest weapons systems tough, mentions warfare in a modern setting over the internets, and improved tem play technology. In big bright red letters "Total War on a modern battlefield".
It mentions it's a direct sequel to BF1942, mmm, here's one bullet point: Unleash the power of a modern arsenal taking on the role of the United States Marine Corps, People's Republic of China or the Middle Eastern Coalition; with over 30 vehicles and 20 soldier kits.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

Like I said. Get friends to play with = problem solved.

Especially if they're good.

I never called you a noob. I did call you ignorant because you were expressing an opinion based on no experience, no knowledge, all prejudice. Unfortunately my "friend-base" doesnt consist of 24/7 gamers. They tend to not like gaming. And the chances of finding a "friend" in a server, as in- a fun person to frag with, who didnt come off as a 16 year old tit or a 32 year old elitist, and just happens to speak English, be good at being a gunner and most of all, play when I was online (European) was slim.

5 years have passed since the release of BF2. People with no experience still dictate others how the game should be played in their opinion, which mostly doesnt match the reality.

A full chopper crew should enhance the choppers potential, not gimp its survival chances.

[jake_]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

This is painful. Its like IW forums all over again. Theres so many extreme opinions based on ignorance, that its demoralizing.

Even if you dislike soloing, where is this coming from?

I'm not ignorant of anything. Just because I have different opinions on chopper whoring (I refuse to call it "soloing" as that's just a euphemism in my mind) or anything else for that matter, it doesn't mean I'm ignorant.

My dislike is coming from having played hundreds of hours worth of BF2142 and getting tired of people whoring vehicles. Or times when I would hop in as a gunner on a ship and some pilot like you who wanted to solo would refuse to get out or fly until I left. That ruins gameplay just as much.

The entire BF series is filled with noobs in every aspect, not just choppers. That's what you get for playing on public servers.

You have a very specific vision of what BF games should be like and it's an idealistic one. You get frustrated when the game doesn't meet your standards (like you said when you couldn't find a single decent gunner). Unfortunately, 99% of players aren't obsessed with a "combined arms experience." You want a game that is like that, but none of the BF games are designed that way or advertised that way and that other 99% don't mind in the slightest. You're obsessed with this perfect pseudo-realistic perception you have of the game, but it's entirely subjective. You can't make the game what it isn't even if you supported DICE from the beginning. You can be angry about it not being what you want, but that won't change a d@mned thing.

edit: Ultimately this is just a game. Enjoy it for what it is, not what it's potential could hypothetically be in your perfect vision of it.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

I think I'm starting to see what you mean by "talking from experience" but sadly the topmost players, that know how to pilot/gun, that are not elitist junkies are an even smaller population sample than the airwhoring douches, wich is in itself, a small sample of the total playing population for the game.

TRust me on this, it's better that you need both seats occupied this time around; you could solo it with just the rockets, but it won't have the same potential as with a gunner; and "forcing" people to gun the chopper will lead to them learning to do it, and eventually learning to do it well.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

I'm not ignorant of anything. Just because I have different opinions on chopper whoring (I refuse to call it "soloing" as that's just a euphemism in my mind) or anything else for that matter, it doesn't mean I'm ignorant.

Its not an opinion if your suggestions are not supported by the reality of the situation. An objective opinion would take into account all the negatives associated with both sides of the argument surrounding solo and full crew chopper use. Instead you lable everyone a "wh0re". Thats not an opinion.

My dislike is coming from having played hundreds of hours worth of BF2142 and getting tired of people whoring vehicles. Or times when I would hop in as a gunner on a ship and some pilot like you who wanted to solo would refuse to get out or fly until I left. That ruins gameplay just as much.

And how exactly do people who whore vehicles break your fun of the game? Do you expect a vehicle to be available to you at all times? Having a ridiculously fun assets numbers limited in order to balance its impact in the game is a fair tradeoff. If you want to fly, you either have to go into a smaller server or invest some time into waiting. Alternatively, I have never had any issues with NOT getting a vehicle, unless they are taken by really talented players, in which case its better for the team if they used it anyway. Anyone who is less than good will die soon and I get my shot at it. Many servers also enforce the "waiting queue" rule, which is perfectly fine and gives everyone a chance. Not to mention that 330 tickets to a 32 strong team (default ranked server settings) is stupidly short, you get an awesome Battlefield experience between 500 and 800 ticks.

The entire BF series is filled with noobs in every aspect, not just choppers. That's what you get for playing on public servers.

Except that you forget that soloing and redlining is merely people adapting to this. Do you know what was one of the greatest aspects for me in flying jets? When I took off, I noticed I always exhaled in relief. I felt free. Literally.

You have a very specific vision of what BF games should be like and it's an idealistic one.

You have no idea what my vision of BF is. You mistake my "idealism" for tolerance and being open minded. Did I say that soloing is a better solution for the GAME? No, Im just trying to explain to you why such methods exist, providing an insight to a group of players mindset when certain decisions are made, while you lable everyone a "wh0re". I wouldnt have any problems with chopper gunners functions being disabled if the game registered just one person in the craft, provided that the pilots functions were left alone, and the FFARs were more than capable of guaranteeing the vehicles survival and maintaining that balance tipper for against armor.

You get frustrated when the game doesn't meet your standards (like you said when you couldn't find a single decent gunner).

I get frustrated when people question my methods when Im adapting to how people mold the gaming experience around me.

You want a game that is like that, but none of the BF games are designed that way or advertised that way and that other 99% don't mind in the slightest

What are you talking about. BF has always been advertised as an all-aspect combat game. In fact it has never been advertised as an "infantry game with vehicles", vehicular combat has always been seen and promoted as its strongest sellingpoint.

You can be angry about it not being what you want, but that won't change a d@mned thing.

Actually, YOU are angry about US actually changing it on a daily basis. Whos angry at soloers even existing right now?

edit: Ultimately this is just a game. Enjoy it for what it is, not what it's potential could hypothetically be in your perfect vision of it.

Exactly, so leave the soloers alone. Hypocrisy has never been a virtue.

---------- Post added at 11:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 PM ----------

I think I'm starting to see what you mean by "talking from experience" but sadly the topmost players, that know how to pilot/gun, that are not elitist junkies are an even smaller population sample than the airwhoring douches, wich is in itself, a small sample of the total playing population for the game.

Most of the people you call elitist are merely agressively defensive because they have to deal with situation similar in this thread. There are selfabsorbed, cocky kids both in infantry aswell as in the crowd of vehicles, however on TBF2 forums the number of well versed, well argumented and pretty much intellectually superior posts have always come from the vehicular crowd. And Im not talking about myself. Some of the greatest guides and greatest posts have come from pilots, the people who didnt spend 1/8 (infantry/vehicles), but had a more balanced time spent in the game came up with far more realistic and better suited solutions for everyone.

TRust me on this, it's better that you need both seats occupied this time around; you could solo it with just the rockets, but it won't have the same potential as with a gunner; and "forcing" people to gun the chopper will lead to them learning to do it, and eventually learning to do it well.

Im not a promoter of soloing because I think its "1337", Im promoter of soloing at this current state of the game because its necessary. The skill level in air in BF2 has gone to such heights, on average, that its impossible to do well unless the vehicle is well utilized. "Teamwork" alone wont get the job done, unfortunately. Id bring in POE2 as an example of how choppers are well fixed, but I think Im getting redundant at this point, haha. I would advise anyone who got frustrated with BF2 to try that mod out, unfortunately its not populated anymore. Tactical Gamers server died out 1-1.5 years ago, and it was the last American server which had people playing in it.

---------- Post added at 11:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 PM ----------

I think I'm starting to see what you mean by "talking from experience" but sadly the topmost players, that know how to pilot/gun, that are not elitist junkies are an even smaller population sample than the airwhoring douches, wich is in itself, a small sample of the total playing population for the game.

Most of the people you call elitist are merely agressively defensive because they have to deal with situation similar in this thread. There are selfabsorbed, cocky kids both in infantry aswell as in the crowd of vehicles, however on TBF2 forums the number of well versed, well argumented and pretty much intellectually superior posts have always come from the vehicular crowd. And Im not talking about myself. Some of the greatest guides and greatest posts have come from pilots, the people who didnt spend 1/8 (infantry/vehicles), but had a more balanced time spent in the game came up with far more realistic and better suited solutions for everyone.

TRust me on this, it's better that you need both seats occupied this time around; you could solo it with just the rockets, but it won't have the same potential as with a gunner; and "forcing" people to gun the chopper will lead to them learning to do it, and eventually learning to do it well.

Im not a promoter of soloing because I think its "1337", Im promoter of soloing at this current state of the game because its necessary. The skill level in air in BF2 has gone to such heights, on average, that its impossible to do well unless the vehicle is well utilized. "Teamwork" alone wont get the job done, unfortunately. Id bring in POE2 as an example of how choppers are well fixed, but I think Im getting redundant at this point, haha. I would advise anyone who got frustrated with BF2 to try that mod out, unfortunately its not populated anymore. Tactical Gamers server died out 1-1.5 years ago, and it was the last American server which had people playing in it.

[Odedge]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

A full chopper crew should enhance the choppers potential, not gimp its survival chances.

That's exactly what's wrong with allowing people to solo, one person utilizes too much of the choppers potential, but not all of it. The TV missile is easily the most powerful weapon on a chopper and thus should have two people to use it. To balance game play, there should be a positive and a negative aspect to using weapons and vehicles. Soloing blurs that line too many times.

For what it's worth, I have been playing BF 2 since the demo. I have logged in more hours than I care to admit. I have been with "noob gunners/pilots", I was one myself once. I know how to pilot/gun/solo a chopper probably better than the majority of the players out there.

While I understand your frustration as I have been there myself, it maybe be equally frustrating for other players that soling is allowed in the game and that's it's too easy for a player to kill an enemy from 450 meters away with out a fair chance of defending themselves. Since both of your frustration is subjective, it comes down to what's best for the over all game play philosophy. In the Battlefield series, it's team work more than being Rambo.

The chopper is arguably the most powerful vehicle in BF 2 and probably in BC 2 (haven't played it yet). Therefore, you should need a chopper crew to maximize it's potential.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

While I understand your frustration as I have been there myself, it maybe be equally frustrating for other players that soling is allowed in the game and that's it's too easy for a player to kill an enemy from 450 meters away with out a fair chance of defending themselves. Since both of your frustration is subjective, it comes down to what's best for the over all game play philosophy. In the Battlefield series, it's team work more than being Rambo.

The only reason soloing is effective is because soloers have sunk hundreds of hours into it. Its natural progression of ones skill. If you want to limit that by artificially gimping them by pitting them together with players who kill the efficiency of the better players, then that approach is wrong. Every counter for choppers has proven to be less fun and less productive in terms of reward. You make chopper hunting fun, and the game will balance itsself out.

[imported_Kalo]

Re: Thanks be to the gods!

To all the Solo supporters : Good ****ing thing you have Anti Infantry missiles huh? Even when I had a crap gunner in BC2 I was able to get points because the missiles work. This is directly in reference to BC2 NOT Bf2. And the secondary fire sounds like it'll make it even better! TBH...