All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

[Darc]

Think of all the ways in this game there are to get radar. The commander has the UAV and a sat scan. There's the netbat and spotting systems. There's some squad leader tool I never use that gives radar. There's a radar grenade. There's a pulse scanner and a sonar scanner. Did I miss anything?

This game is designed with painfully slow enough combat mechanics as it is. Radar brings the gameplay to a grinding camp fest.

I've been playing for a while now and I can get over that I have to stop moving to get a workable CoF, that I have to suffer the fire delay after a jump or fall, that I get caught on every surface that sticks out a fraction of an inch, that straffing is about useless... that this is an FPS game with training wheels; *ahem* "tactical" shooter.

But it's the radar that really makes rounds uninteresting stalemates a lot of the times. It's still the best thing to play until a more tradtional twitch-based shooter comes out with support for truely large battles.

[Killerus]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

i would not consider this a twitch based shooter. If that is what you want then Quake or Unreal would suit you better.

This is a futuristic military style FPS i would figure that radar would be pretty common place.

As for the shooting on the run what do you expect to happen? To have laser accuracy? I don't have problems with shooting and moving but i also don't expect the same accuracy is if i was crouched and firing.

[Darc]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

The setting or the theme of a video game, or comparison to "real life," NEVER applies in discussion of gameplay mechanics, nor does it justify them.

I just hope they liven up the pace a bit if they decide to keep going with these battlefield games and nothing else of similar scope or scale comes along. They could accomplish it by speeding up the shooter aspect; allowing some mild run n' gun and reducing the role of stamina. They could keep the combat the same and strip down the "tactical" side of things by severely toning down the over-abundant radar. The combination of both of these elements makes the game a rocket/nade spamfest camp-off.

All "tactical" shooters have ever done for the FPS genre is convince people that laying in wait for something to come into your sights, or being pinned down in a spam exchange, is good times. They have reined supreme for many years now, completely dominating the 64 man and up high-cap games. It's getting old and it's time to re-tap the tradtional style and apply it with newer, large-scale, high-cap games.

The good news I don't think they can make these games any slower while still involving gunplay. Battlefield 1200? Middle-ages? Where each round is an 8 month siege? Thrill as you wait for your opponent to starve!

[Shurikane]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

No. Tactical shooters have convinced people to get some intel before they jump into the lion's mouth.

You don't play this like a run-and-gun. You got to play it like a tactician. You put up your radar, you see the blip move. He's suspicious. Does he know you are there? Does he know that you know he is there? Can you take him on alone? Do you need backup? Do you switch to a grenade? How do you orchestrate your squad? Do you go head-on? Do you flank? Do you provide a distraction?

What wins in this game is a head. A cool, calm and calculating head. You are looking for ways to evade radar and avoid detection but YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYING CITY CONQUEST FOR YOUR ENTIRE CAREER!

Of course you're gonna be pissed at radars - that's because you fight in such close quarter maps that a radar scan already picks up a quarter of it. You've barely tried Titan and you haven't even touched vehicle conquest! You haven't even played a third of the damn game.

Get out there and start playing Titan and VC rotations. You'll see that radar play becomes a whole different ball game in these modes.

[Yoster]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

I like it. It's a good change from bf2's system and optimizes my multitasking.

[iQue]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

Eh I don't like it. But at least it's better than in many other games where you show up on the map the instant you shoot (seriously wth)

[Lolyn]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

Quick solution to your radar problem.

1. Buy northern strike
2. Unlock recon decoy beacon.
3. Place beacon, go kill stuff in vicinity.

Ok fine, so 2142 has billions of UAVs, spotting/radar etc etc, but all it takes is a bit of brain and you can circumnavigate most radar controlled zones and most choke points, and they're certainely no problem if you get yourself into a good squad. Some of the UAV items have disadvantages such as delayed spotting, the minimap doesn't show y-axis positioning, and relying on your radar too much is often distracting and can end up getting you killed.

Big server and radar causing spammy choke-points? Play on a smaller server or one that isn't camp gib 64 man, which gets spammy with or without radar. It's inevitable, the map is a giant corridor. Smaller servers (32 and less) are much more "playable", although playing on say, 64 man Operation Shingle, you have much more room to move around and less choke points to get camped/spammed. Small map with lots of players will always mean camping and spamming.

But anyway, one key point of your argument is that you're saying radars cause camping. True, but they're not the only thing that causes camping. Some players just do it exclusively. A recon waiting with an rdx trap will camp with or without radar. Some people just wait around corners for minutes on end camping and waiting for people to run through, no matter what kit they're wielding. Also, rockets and nades kill easily, it's natural for people to spam them like any powerful weapon in any game, and once you've played a map a few times, you'll know where the key choke points and bottlenecks are, and then it's just a question of finding an ammo-crate and spamming to victory. It's not like other games don't have their fair share of camping either

I don't think the game needs altering to compensate, perhaps some more effective anti-radar means maybe, but to adjust the shooting mechanics simply because people can 1-up you before you've even come round their corner. Nah. Then it'd be "just another CoD/Quake/UT". I like that I have to think about my movement pre-aiming, that I can't just circle strafe like a loon without aim. Also, I'd like to say that you can to a certain extent "run and gun" in 2142, and most of the top end players pretty much waltz through public servers killing several people a minute without much problem, and that with stamina isn't really a problem at any point once you've clocked the game mechanics and are competent with light armour.

I dunno, just get the feeling that most of what you're disagreeing with can be solved with a little practice, or that you just want the game to be something totally different from what the developers conceived.

Edit : yup, as shurikane pointed out, judging by your server history you're basically playing 64 man city maps.... that's asking for spam, and it's not the radar. It's the overwhelming swarm of troops covering such small maps meaning it's easy to sit back and wait for kills.

[Darc]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

YOU HAVE BEEN PLAYING CITY CONQUEST FOR YOUR ENTIRE CAREER!

It's the only way to play the game I can stand. Anything else is too slow, too much travel time, too boring. Strategy works in games like C&C or Star/War craft because the games revolve around it. They provide a myriad of tools, options and challenges to make employing various strategies an enjoyable gaming experience.

Basically- you see the way people play the game. A lot of them run around doing their own thing shooting anything that presents itself. That's not their fault, that's poor game design. If there was enough depth to the strategy element in these kinds of games, everyone would get involved because it would be entertaining to do so. Since it isn't, people are left with a stunted shooter game at best.

[Quemical]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

Go develop that bad *** game you are thinking about.

[Darc]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

Edit : yup, as shurikane pointed out, judging by your server history you're basically playing 64 man city maps.... that's asking for spam, and it's not the radar. It's the overwhelming swarm of troops covering such small maps meaning it's easy to sit back and wait for kills.

Look. Radar and slow moving gameplay in general, are camping/spam enablers. There is no debating that. Even on "small" maps there is room to reduce the stagnation by either speeding up the gameplay directly or simply reducing the amount of situational awareness. i.e. radar.

Another tangent to take this is that if this game is so "tactical" for wanna-be generals and people who the closest they will come to the military is driving past a recuiter station- why not rely on the all-seeing commander to relay all the enemy's positional information to squad leaders with manual verbal instructions? That's pretty hardcore right there for the "tactical" crowd.

Why not? Because it's not fun and no one would bother doing it. Could you? Sure.

[Quemical]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

I'm with Shurikane, you don't have fun with the game because all you can do is Voss whore. You have no diversity.

[Shurikane]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

It's the only way to play the game I can stand.

Then you bought the wrong game. Your playstyle is more suited to CoD4 and Insurgency. Not a large-scale tactical shooter.

Anything else is too slow, too much travel time, too boring.

FAVs! APCs! Tanks! Air transports!

Strategy works in games like C&C or Star/War craft because the games revolve around it. They provide a myriad of tools, options and challenges to make employing various strategies an enjoyable gaming experience.

Strategy in actual strategy games amounted more to resource gathering and zergrushing than anything else. You couldn't attack in a graceful manner. Your units collided head-on with the enemy, you used whatever special attacks you had and you hoped for the best. The closest I came to see more appropriate strategy was in Red Alert III in which I could order tanks to retreat in reverse geat so as to present their stronger frontal armor to the enemy - and even then, I just juggernauted right through those sorts of things.

Basically- you see the way people play the game. A lot of them run around doing their own thing shooting anything that presents itself. That's not their fault, that's poor game design.

I will not forgive a n00b for being a n00b. There are so many tools available in BF that it's virtually impossible to get lost or run out of things to do. And yet, I've seen it happen. I've placed an order only to hop in my squadmate's vehicle and have him speeding away from my order. He had a minimap all along and yet never acknowledged its existence. He had a big sword icon on his screen and a big purple line on his map - nope! Never seen 'em. Most people who play Battlefield play it like Unreal Tournament because they expect every FPS ever to play like Unreal Tournament, and they're in for a nasty surprise. People have grown up on free-for-all deathmatches and can't wrap their minds around the simple concept of teamwork. I won't shoehorn teamwork into them. And I sure as hell won't blame a game that's already doing more than enough to cue players into thinking "Hey, some orders are being given! Maybe I should listen to 'em!"

If there was enough depth to the strategy element in these kinds of games, everyone would get involved because it would be entertaining to do so. Since it isn't, people are left with a stunted shooter game at best.

That's you. That's not everyone. I will not accept your opinion as representative of the hundreds of thousands of persons who have played this game.

Again, all you've known to do was rush headfirst into the enemy because city conquest on huge servers has taught you that flanking and sneaking around is useless. You hate it, you ***** and whine about it, but you refuse to seek an alternative because you want to kill things RIGHT NOW RARARARARARARAR. In the end, you're just like the rest of the pack that runs off to do their own thing and shoot anything that moves. You find Titan maps and vehicle conquest maps to be boring, I call ********. You've been on them once, decided they sucked, then never dared to touch them again. I could dump you in the middle of Suez Canal and you wouldn't know which way is up. That's a given, you're playing the damn map for the first time. But you'll learn where the vehicles are, where things spawn, how the strategy evolves as the round goes and how the enemy tends to behave in the map's particular situations. Hopefully.

But you won't go on these maps because you've found them boring at a glance and I can safely assume you will never even attempt to go on them again no matter how much myself, three, six or twelve forum members will try to convince you otherwise.

[[21CW]HIVictim]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

I love it how he says he hates the "grinding camp fest" and then says the other modes have "too much travel".

So on one hand, he hates the idea of not moving around, but in the next post says he hates moving around.

Contradiction fail. :laugh:

[Darc]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

So on one hand, he hates the idea of not moving around, but in the next post says he hates moving around.
:laugh:

Actually the idea is engaging the enemy, fighting your opponent, etc. Spam exchanges and driving back and forth constantly to get to the fight is not what i consider "quality time."

[[21CW]HIVictim]

Re: All the Radar in this game makes it dull.

Actually the idea is engaging the enemy, fighting your opponent, etc. Spam exchanges and driving back and forth constantly to get to the fight is not what i consider "quality time."

Then why don't you stop complaining about the game mechanics and find a game you enjoy. Why are you even here if you think you are wasting your "quality time"?

I mean that in the nicest way.