has anyone ever thought of.....

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  • WolfAlmighty
    Artillery Magnet
    • Jan 2007
    • 2113

    #16
    Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

    Originally posted by Sloi
    What I don't understand is why people are b*tching about this: why would infantry stand a chance against tanks, apcs and other vehicles? Similarly, why would apcs and tanks stand a chance against helis? It's just an inescapable reality, deal with it, learn to use those vehicles to fight fire with fire or play counter-strike/cod4.

    Agreed, but again... that's an inescapable reality of infantry combat. It is the price you pay for not specializing in air combat or not entering a vehicle at that particular point in time.
    The thing is, infantry DOES stand a chance against APCs and tanks, provided the infantry uses his smarts and doesn't just go charging down the middle of the field hoping to somehow insta-kill it with a single AT missile. Most maps (Zatar Wetlands notwithstanding) have more than sufficient terrain cover for moving from point-to-point while keeping yourself from being two easy points for any vehicle pilot in the map. This cover can double as a good place to pick at enemy ground vehicles. Then of course you can lay C4 traps and landmines to deal with vehicles as well.

    Then, enter the aircraft. Tell me what degree of skill you can have as a tank pilot that will ensure you don't get OHKed from 300m away by the Hand-of-God heligunner? And does said tank even stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting the heli first? Perhaps with the .50 MG on top, but the chances of you taking enough damage off quickly before it turns and creams you is negligible at best, and even less so for a skilled pilot/gunner like yourself. That pretty much only leaves AA vehicles and AA stations as the only ground means to dispose of enemy helis, and TV missiles have a significantly longer range than the lock-on from a ground AA vehicle. So really, if at the start of a round a newb gets into your heli, your team deserves to be screwed for the remainder of the round because of it? The air power in this game has far too few threats to be considered balanced overall. Some games, like one I had the other day on Daqing, I didn't even bother getting into a tank because if I did I would barely make it out of the base I took it from before I was wtfpwned by either a heli or jet that I never even saw. So I have the option of spending the whole round dying to pilots halfway across the map, walking from base to base (w00t?), or just turtling in and defending (the option I end up choosing whenever this happens). Fun stuff, yeah?

    ~Wolfgang

    Comment

    • Sloi sauce

      #17
      Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

      In reality, the AA should easily keep the helis at bay... but you know how DICE likes to mess the code. If those missiles hit our helis more often, we wouldn't be so daring in our approach.

      Comment

      • Sloi sauce

        #18
        Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

        Do tell, how should they fix the game? In fact, what would it take to satisfy you? An equal footing for infantry, ground vehicles and air vehicles? That would make absolutely no sense.

        More damage to helis from tanks and APCs? Sure.
        More damage from AT kits to APCs, tanks and helis? Why not.
        Better AA hit percentage? That would be great.

        Am I missing something? Because anything you would propose to place them on an equal footing would make you a complete moron. Don't prove me right.

        Comment

        • WolfAlmighty
          Artillery Magnet
          • Jan 2007
          • 2113

          #19
          Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

          Originally posted by Sloi
          Do tell, how should they fix the game? In fact, what would it take to satisfy you? An equal footing for infantry, ground vehicles and air vehicles? That would make absolutely no sense.

          More damage to helis from tanks and APCs? Sure.
          More damage from AT kits to APCs, tanks and helis? Why not.
          Better AA hit percentage? That would be great.

          Am I missing something? Because anything you would propose to place them on an equal footing would make you a complete moron. Don't prove me right.
          Not quite sure, but were you talking to me or Reaper with that post?

          My feeling is that infantry should never be rendered completely helpless against vehicles. Back in BF1942, you could even pick at planes with regular handheld weapons, and although it didn't do a great deal of damage, you were at least able to hit them and with enough concentrated fire you could bring one down (not to mention how much more effective flak 88s were against the props, and they couldn't rape the same way the BF2 helis rape to begin with). Also ground vehicles didn't light up in the pilot's HUD and show up as a little box/circle/triangle with essentially a '+2' over it.

          Well anyway, a soldier-carried stinger missle would be ideal. Even if it's just a slow-loading, single-shot jobbie that took three hits to bring down a heli, it would be far better than the alternatives they have now (which is, sit in one of the 'SHOOT ME PLZ!' AA emplacements or an almost as easily-killable AA vehicle). It could be done the way that BF:V's SA-7 kit was done, where the soldier was only given the SA-7, a pistol, and a knife, so it took a decent commitment/sacrifice to go with an AA kit over any other kit. But in times ot desperation, such as when you're getting baseraped by a heli, at least you wouldn't have to just continuously spawn and get killed with no chance of retaliating.

          Or, barring that, make it so that ground armour is more than one hit with a TV missile, so at least the tanks and APCs aren't just milling along on the ground like ants while the heligunner brings his magnifying glass and frys them all systematically. Or, increase the lockon range for AA vehicles so that they can't be rendered helpless by having a TV missile shot from farther away than they can reach, considering that the whole point of an AA vehicle is, well, AA. It should at least be able to compete. Especially as a soloist I very much doubt you even fear AA vehicles, considering that when you switch to the gunner seat it breaks the lock of the AA vehicle, as if it needed another castration.

          ~Wolfgang

          Comment

          • Sloi sauce

            #20
            Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

            I was replying to Reaper. :)

            Shoulder mounted AA would destroy this game. Think of how corrupt and bankrupt the average player is when it comes to exploiting every possible advantage: now imagine how it would be if you brought something like this in BF2...

            You'd have groups of people camping airfields, carrier and helipads to shoot air vehicles down, essentially making them useless. Helis already have to deal with AT, TOW, AA, A2A, other helis, jets and the occasional .50's.

            More damage from existing weapons would do just as well.

            Comment

            • Alex6714
              Member
              • Jul 2007
              • 259

              #21
              Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

              Originally posted by The_Falcon_6049

              Consider in investing your time in a non-vehicle talent.
              I will invest my time in what I find most fun to do thank you very much.

              Comment

              • Skaggy
                Member
                • Feb 2007
                • 1974

                #22
                Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

                Choppers can absolutely dominate a battlefield.





                My guess is the OP was just on the receiving end of a round like this...and decided to make a post here about it.

                Seriously, how often do you see rounds like this?

                The only reason those scores are so inflated is because there was NO-ONE on the opposing team who was competent, and of course they were on wake...
                When you've got a few competent players on the other team it takes a lot of concentration and knowledge of your surroundings to survive long in a helicopter.

                Comment

                • waaah_wah
                  TEAM BLADE!
                  • Jun 2007
                  • 3656

                  #23
                  Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

                  Originally posted by Sloi
                  I was replying to Reaper. :)

                  Shoulder mounted AA would destroy this game. Think of how corrupt and bankrupt the average player is when it comes to exploiting every possible advantage: now imagine how it would be if you brought something like this in BF2...

                  You'd have groups of people camping airfields, carrier and helipads to shoot air vehicles down, essentially making them useless. Helis already have to deal with AT, TOW, AA, A2A, other helis, jets and the occasional .50's.

                  More damage from existing weapons would do just as well.
                  If the unlimited AT class doesnt destroy balance in this game, i just cant see how an AA kit would do that. Right now you can camp an airfield pretty effectively with two AT kits and one support.

                  As for chopters having to deal TOW's and AT's, WTF?? When was the last time someone downed you with a TOW or AT?

                  Comment

                  • Skaggy
                    Member
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 1974

                    #24
                    Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

                    Originally posted by waaah_wah
                    If the unlimited AT class doesnt destroy balance in this game, i just cant see how an AA kit would do that. Right now you can camp an airfield pretty effectively with two AT kits and one support.

                    As for chopters having to deal TOW's and AT's, WTF?? When was the last time someone downed you with a TOW or AT?
                    I think he was referring to attacking helos on the ground with AT missiles etc.

                    Something you've backed up in the first part of your post. :)

                    Comment

                    • waaah_wah
                      TEAM BLADE!
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 3656

                      #25
                      Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

                      Not THAT hard to deal with baserapers. Atleast not while they are on foot

                      Comment

                      • imported_AKULA
                        Member
                        • Nov 2007
                        • 170

                        #26
                        Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

                        Shoulder mounted stingers would destroy the game for chopper whores yes but it would even the playing field for everyone else. The whores complain about having to deal with AA, other jets and Helis..... Boohoo.... Not getting your 100+ points per round? Welcome to the real world.

                        People would be camping outside your base with stingers taking you down eh??? Again, welcome. On that note I rarely see a full squad of AT move in on a flag taking out vehicles... Most squads usually have just one AT guy and if he's good he can really defend the squad properly but if he sucks then the squad doesn't stand a chance. Having shoulder mounted stingers that are not detectable by ground radar would be a great way to make things better for both chopper whores and infantry by honing your skills in a different way. I'm a fair guy but when I drill an anti tank round into an attack chopper only to see it turn towards me and take me out with a few rockets that's just too unfair to overlook. If chopper and jet whores want their 100+ points they should work for it just like everyone else.

                        Sooo... Would anyone come to a server that allows base raping the aircraft???? I'm just wondering because I'm thinking of setting up a server.

                        Comment

                        • imported_kiwi
                          Member
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 555

                          #27
                          Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

                          I have no prob with baseraping but there are not so many servers around that do allow it. The problem is that if one team is much stronger then most of the losing team leaves. If baseraping is forbidden then they can at least be safe in their base/carrier

                          Comment

                          • imported_AKULA
                            Member
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 170

                            #28
                            Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

                            Originally posted by kiwi
                            I have no prob with baseraping but there are not so many servers around that do allow it. The problem is that if one team is much stronger then most of the losing team leaves. If baseraping is forbidden then they can at least be safe in their base/carrier
                            and do what??? play cards lol.... I'm not saying that full out baseraping should be allowed I'm saying that you should be able to baserape the aircraft as in GO IN, DESTROY UAV, SAT, ARTI AND AIRCRAFT...... I don't mean go in, drop artillery, steal vehicles and kill everyone and anything. Now that WOULD BE unfair.

                            Comment

                            • TrudgiN
                              Member
                              • Jul 2007
                              • 705

                              #29
                              Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

                              one of the reasons i don't play vehicle is because you spawn instant helo death. then spawn helo shoots you with gunner it goes on and on especially on wake gets annoying and repetitive.

                              Comment

                              • [Expletive Deleted]
                                The Penetrator
                                • Oct 2006
                                • 2855

                                #30
                                Re: has anyone ever thought of.....

                                Originally posted by TheRealWolfgang
                                [SNIP]
                                Especially as a soloist I very much doubt you even fear AA vehicles, considering that when you switch to the gunner seat it breaks the lock of the AA vehicle, as if it needed another castration.

                                ~Wolfgang
                                Can you prove without a doubt that switching seats breaks AA lock in the current patch? Because back in 1.2 I made a video of AA missiles dodging my chopper when I switched. Around 1.3 or possibly before I made another video of missiles hitting my chopper normally while I switched. Out of the tests I did in a LAN with my wife, missiles were not affected by my being in the other seat at all. If I didn't use flares and just switched seats, she got me every time.
                                So based on tests I personally conducted on a LAN server and online, soloing has nothing to do with piss-poor AA performance.

                                And people continuing to propagate this "fact" about it breaking the AA lock are what causes a lot of servers to ban soloists.

                                Comment

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