A few comments on POE2 v1.8

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

If you have a look at the tactical FPS sims/games out there, then they are only slow in SP, where you have minutes and minutes of time to prepare for combat or another entry. Even in the movies (hickup, dont crucify me), the only slow part in an entry, or in any hostile situation is the moment before hell breaks loose.

Ive played SWAT4 for more than 1000 hours, in the same time I used to play paintball (woodsball and speedball) and I do play airsoft, both milsim events and scirmishes. The factor where they are all similar are exactly what D-Jaws has described. In no way Im trying to make an impression of knowing more than actual serving people do, but in the sense of sports, where man meets man, in a rather "violent" atmosphere, he got it right-

surprise, speed, and violence of action

This is what makes you the winner. The sole purpose of training is to make knowledge into your reflexes because in an engagement, you need to act and think as minimal as possible. Note that thinking is a central part, but it has to be integrated into your actions.

The most noted tactical FPS games out there are more Quake kind than you would admit. They are just restricted to realistic physics. But the victorious people in those games prevail because they are using the principles D-Jaws described. Which is why "slow" doesnt necessarily mean "tactical" nor "realistic". Slower than Quake would be the correct term, if wed integrate the word "slow" into somewhere.

Never mind servers, you seem to be playing the wrong mod.
This mod isn't PR, stop trying to play it like it is.

The idea is vanilla gameplay with new content.

Whatever the intentions of POE2 crew was, this is the outcome. Ive said it before, that to an "average Joe" who enjoys the mod (and ranks it as BF2s best), POE2 is an upgraded, "this is how it had to be" version of BF2.

[|D|-Jaws]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

PR slow? There's nothing slow about the combat - because of the BF2 engine, it's like Quake at CQB.

And I giggled at the last bit - thinking and vanilla gameplay? Seriously?

You can giggle all you want at the truth. Here's another fact, PR gameplay is a BOREFEST. When you said up above that PR combat wasn't slow....I agreed because there is no combat. I've never seen so much running AWAY from the enemy in all my life as evidenced in your brainwashing videos called The PRMM Diary....showcased in "bore us to death" videos.

Here is 9:50 of no shooting.

http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,3950126958.aspx

Now here is a perfectly executed strat based on tactics and teamplay in a competitive environment.

Oh yeah....Capout in 2:19.

http://team-dissidents.net/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&id=10

So there goes your whole "no thinking" in Vanilla gameplay.

I think you should go tell teams like [HOT] and [20ID] that they never had to think in any of their championships matches.

PR is like an old folks home of gamers that just can't hack it in Vanilla or Vanilla related mods.

I don't know about you but I came to shoot in a first person shooter. the beauty in the Battlefield series is that the thinking man can be the best shooter....but thinking on the battlefield means think QUICKLY and then commit 100% to your decisions.

Oh well, we are worlds apart.

[$kelet0r]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

clearly
but then if you think that vanilla BF2 is a thinking man's game or that the arcade gameplay of PR is too slow compared to reality ... well game set and match to me.
thanks for playing.

[|D|-Jaws]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

clearly
but then if you think that vanilla BF2 is a thinking man's game or that the arcade gameplay of PR is too slow compared to reality ... well game set and match to me.
thanks for playing.

Two questions, did you ever play a title called BF1942 and have you ever performed military duties in real world combat situations?

I've done both.

Please, by all means, go tell 20ID and Team HOT that they never had to think in all of their Vanilla matches...please, I beg you. I think they'll laugh at you while they count their earnings which is around $70,000 between the two teams. Diminish it all you want, facts are facts.

So I expect you to tell these two teams your POV within 24hrs. Let us know how that goes for ya.

I try to refrain from being nasty because the PR dev team is full of talent and they have their own vision and execute on it. For that, I respect them.

[DrunkenPirate]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

No thinking in vanilla game? big lol.

[=tGA=Harry]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

Having served in the military as a rifleman in an infantry unit, specialized on both urban and woodland combat, I have to agree with D-Jaws. Movement in todays military tactics is fast. I have not seen real life combat though, only mock combat with loose ammunition and laser hit markers, but when the action starts, you run quite a lot and often to forward positions or to cover, while the other guys cover your a** with supressive fire and then you cover their butt while they run forward etc. There is rarely any sneaking around while people are shooting around you. More like hiding, shooting back, hiding, shooting, then advancing fast to another cover to get another angle over the enemy to break the deadlock, etc.
And as Jaws pointed out, traveling open terrain is when enemy contact is expected is done running (not sneaking), in a diamond formation or a far spread out firing line.

But PR does a great job also and the gameplay is suited to fit some people. Some like fast action some slow. But slow isn't always realistic, nor is fast quake style vBF2 bunnyhopping gameplay.

[imported_Rhino]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

oh god not this topic again....

If you have a look at the tactical FPS sims/games out there, then they are only slow in SP, where you have minutes and minutes of time to prepare for combat or another entry. Even in the movies (hickup, dont crucify me), the only slow part in an entry, or in any hostile situation is the moment before hell breaks loose.

Ive played SWAT4 for more than 1000 hours, in the same time I used to play paintball (woodsball and speedball) and I do play airsoft, both milsim events and scirmishes. The factor where they are all similar are exactly what D-Jaws has described. In no way Im trying to make an impression of knowing more than actual serving people do, but in the sense of sports, where man meets man, in a rather "violent" atmosphere, he got it right-

the problem here is that you two seem to be referring to Close Quarter Combat (CQB), fighting in buildings and close up to the enemy with most of the action takeing place with in -50m. In this case you are correct, speed and all the rest are the main tactic here.

The problem you guys seem to fail to see is that PR dose really, really badly in CQB combat, we know that, we cant do CQB combat at all effectively since the BF2 engine kinda sucks in features like leaning and things like that to make it realistic. So what happens in PR is it is done fast like you describe but aint realistic like in r/l we know, not much we can do about it to be honest.

The main focus of PR how ever is not CQB combat, it is in fact medium to long range combat, with combined arms. If you have noticed with every version we make we are trying to extend the combat ranges of BF2, in v0.6 we have our first 4x4km map with a 1km view distance, which only has close combat in the villages and the bunkers but 90% of the map is long range, combined arms combat (thou our jets are kinda sucky on it at the mo since our AA and SA missile are fecked up a little, but the ground battles are still fun). Now please tell me if I'm wrong but do long to medium range battles end in a few seconds and are fast passed? Most of the time from everything I have seen they are not. I aint got this awesome vid that the guys at Boavington Camp showed us when we went there but the vid itself went of for over an hr (we skipped most of it) showing just one small fire fight if Afghanistan to retrieve a wounded solider and it had scimitars lined up like 2kms away from the battle giving cover, apaches flying in with guys strapped to the wings flown in to retrieve the guy and all sorts, shame I dont have it on me or is on you tube (would be too long for it anyways) as it would show you guys exactly what I'm on about but theres lots of vids showing small clips in Afghanistan on the net. A very quick one i just found, not the best, this one is at night so you cant see much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XL31EddJOU

If you want realistic CQB combat then play the Insurgancy mod for HL2 as that dose it really well (apart from a little gamey here and there but thats mainly down to the players). PR is for long to medium range, combined arms :)

[HaVOCK-ElEEt]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

POE2 is awesome. I didnt like the first release, it seemed like a side step from BF2. Things have changed, and they have a serious little mod going. If the POE2 and DCON servers would stay full, I would be a happy man.

[[R-DEV]UK_Force]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

Rhino...you know I love ya man and you have my deepest respect but I don't think your mil advisors have seen much combat. I have been deployed to the desert 17 times and I have seen the best and worst that mankind has to offer. With that, I have firsthand experience in real combat and you guys are far from that experience.

I would just like to say "Jaws", I have been in the British Army for 17 years and am a SSgt still serving (in a Recce Regiment), I have been to just about every Operation the British Army has been on - in that time, sometimes more than once.

So I kinda take offence there

I too have seen it - and done it first hand (I am also a Forward Air Controller), on the front line, more recently in the Sangin area of Afgahnistan !!!


Your right, speed is vital, however the players ingame are the ones who dictate that !!



.

[[R-DEV]Gaz]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

I would like to echo UK_Force's thoughts Jaws. Apologies for being off-topic, but I served with 16 Air Assault Brigade. I have served in places such as Northern Ireland (3 years constant) and Iraq (2003 ground war) with an Infantry Recce Plt, and now as a Platoon Sgt with an Anti-Tank Platoon. I have been to a few old Eastern Bloc countries as part of a Counter Terrorism Training Team. I am due to go to Afghanistan very soon, again with 16 Air Assault brigade.

I am a qualifed sniper, OIBUA Instructor (same as your MOUT), SCBC, SCBC(AT), Skill at Arms Instructor and Javelin Anti-Tank Instructor.

We too have been in the 'desert', and seen more than enough combat. We aren't here to compare our lengths and girths, but saying we haven't seen much combat is a bit of an insult.

PR by default has very little grounds where CQC can take place. Hence the 1km view distances. These are to simulate the true engagement ranges in places like Afghanistan at the minute.

PoE is not PR, and cannot be played as such. The PoE2 mod is a fantastic mod in itself, and the two mods are not comparable when looking at what they aim to achieve.
Regards,

Gaz

[gazzthompson]

Re: A few comments on POE2 v1.8

Here is 9:50 of no shooting.

http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,3950126958.aspx

Now here is a perfectly executed strat based on tactics and teamplay in a competitive environment.

Oh yeah....Capout in 2:19.

http://team-dissidents.net/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&id=10

So there goes your whole "no thinking" in Vanilla gameplay.

I think you should go tell teams like [HOT] and [20ID] that they never had to think in any of their championships matches.

PR is like an old folks home of gamers that just can't hack it in Vanilla or Vanilla related mods.

id like to note that you have compared a PR public match with a vbf2 competitive match , which kind of proves our point , in the average vbf2 server i see no teamwork , no thinking , no nothing , it mite aswell be a deatmatch , but yes like u have noticed some of the big teams , [HOT] and [20ID] do have alot of thinking to it, but they are competitive teams and in clan matches , not public games. u can find that amount of teamwork on a public PR server most times .

and people who can't "hack" it in vanilla , i played for some big amaeture teams in vbf2 , ive been top of the bf2 infantry clanbase ladder a few times and even got onto the clanbase nations cup UK team ,so i take offence in that PR players cant hack vanilla , we just dont chose to play it.

to some up , PR is as realistic as the bf2 engine will allow
and POE is a great mod , but each to there own. we cant ask POE to be something it dosnt wont to be , more realistic , just like people cant ask PR to be less realistic.

sry to be off topic and hope i haven't overstepped my mark , i just didn't like what jaws was saying