'Lack of Support'

[MooseHouse]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

Again, EA/DICE never had to release patches.

EVERY and I mean EVERY (well almost :laugh: ) FIRST PERSON SHOOTER had patches, name me one without and it is known a bit and I'll shut up

[Liam.]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

Ah. So you aer simply misinformed :-).

Dice indicated that they would release comprehensive mod tools - they also indicated that the engine would be easily modifiable - it is not. The two previous iterations of the series have been much easier to modify, and the modding scenes in both have been much larger than BF2's currently is, and ever will be.

Somebody from Dice even said that they will leave the 'realism' to the modders - unfortunately, modding BF2 is unnecissarily hard. They did intend to support the mod community.

DICE have done no less for the Mod community as the Americas army DEV team have for example.

They've released the map editor, lightmap samples, mod tutorials and Gmax tools. In fact this is more than the AA people released.

Please tell me what exactly is so hard about it, and why you can't just go to a mod community and ask there. You seem to have failed to understand that DICE did not make you your own personal game engine to do what you want with. They made BF2 for BF2.

A busniess must also satisfy its customers needs and wants if they wish for people to continue purchasing their product or service. EA is not doing a very satisfactory job.

The facts and figures regarding net revenue disagree with you.

EVERY and I mean EVERY (well almost ) FIRST PERSON SHOOTER had patches, name me one without and it is known a bit and I'll shut up

Not the point. A developer could abandon a game instantly. They could not listen to the community, DICE did listen, you can't deny they did. The community said Hawk guns were overpowered so they toned them down for example.

And I don't believe the 2142 demo had any patches

[Garabaldi]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

DICE have done no less for the Mod community as the Americas army DEV team have for example.

America's Army is a free game. The developers never claimed they would support the mod community. Nobody expected that from them.

They've released the map editor, lightmap samples, mod tutorials and Gmax tools

Gmax is software that is completely independent of BF2. Neither EA nor DICE created the software.

You seem to have failed to understand that DICE did not make you your own personal game engine to do what you want with. They made BF2 for BF2.

No, and nobody is failing to understand anything, as you claim.

DICE stated that they would release mod tools, and that the engine itself would be modifiable to some degree (more than it is at the moment).

The community said Hawk guns were overpowered so they toned them down for example.

And now they are completely useless. DICE are one of the worst when it comes to balance issues. There is no middle ground for them - it's either a, completely useless, or b, grossly overpowered.

[-Shifty-]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

I'd like someone to fully explain WHERE BF2 is missing 'support' from EA Games and DICE. I just don't see it. Where is it not there? The modding community? The player community? The cheater community? The simple fact is that EA/DICE are no different to any other game developer/publisher.

As we all know, BF2 was released June 24, 2005, 2 years ago. Since then, EA/DICE has recieved a whole lot of crap from this community. They've released 10 patches (excluding 1.4 BETA 1 and 2). In some of the newer patches, two new FREE maps have been added - Wake and Jalalabad. Also, two new game modes were added FOR FREE. Then, expansions adding even more content were released for what can easily be considered reasonable prices with regards to the actual level of content. Content along the lines of new maps, new kits, new vehicles, new toys (zip line etc).

That is a hell of a lot of additions to the game, something they didn't need to spend time, money and resources on creating for this community. But they did. They gave more and more to us. Yet, you people sit and whine and pretend that EA/DICE don't care and it's all for the money, well congratulations. THEY ARE A BUSINESS; businesses are THERE TO MAKE MONEY. Just like any other game developer or publisher.

As for technical support, there's a website for all EA games titles here:

http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg/php/enduser/home.php?p_sid=EL96qOAi

There's an official forum where you can talk with other players to get help

http://forums.ea.com/mboards/category.jspa?sls=2&categoryID=71

Now, you may have to wait a long time to get a response, or may not get one at all. Now consider that BF2 sold over 2 million copies ALONE, think about how many emails they receive for every game they published. That's a hell of a lot, and I don't think they employ 2 million people, let alone the amount that they actually sell across all games. As of 2006, EA employed 7,200. 7200 people can not instantly respond to 2 million emails per game.

As for EA releasing poor games, try considering the following fact:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA_Games

The 'best reviewed' figure is also supported by the net revenue (data correct as of fiscal year March 2005) of US$3.129 billion. People buy their games, then they buy other games. Not just BF2, but everything else they release. If EA is so bad, why do so many people spend their hard-earned on their products year after year?

Let's also consider that people started flouting the stats system, they started running 'Infantry Only' servers against the TOS to increase their points. What did EA/DICE do? Implement the VERY POPULAR feature themselves. They saw what a major part of the community wanted and they did it. Now, they continue to take extensive feedback from the community (as they did with other patches) and are potentially developing yet another patch, despite the fact that the majority of that community whines about everything they do. It seems that a lot of people think that the game was developed specifically for them to play, that every change should be geared to their personal wants. This just defies all common sense.

YOU ROCK!!!!

I have always wanted to say that but have never found the information or right words.

People are ALWAYS complaining about how bad BF2 is.

I find it very fun and if you do not like it then try a mod or get over it.


EA/DICE has done so much for us and what do we do? Complain 24/7 ( no wait that would be 1024/7 )

So I say the next person who wants to complain either get used to it, fix it, or put your head in some water.

Seriously. We should be more appretiative to EA/DICE and show them that we like this game. I may have complained b4 but that is because no is perfect....although we love the game I guess we just love to gripe. So lets all put an effort into trying to not complain.


(*caugh* ahem *caugh* for those who are going to be "smart alecks" and say "Don't complain about us complaining when u do" or "don't make dumb posts" I made this post to point something out...not really to "complain")

So lets all go play BF2 and love it !

[||3rb||MOBB]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

when so many people complain that they feel they didnt get adequate support for a product, those responsible may want to take time to listen and fix it, instead mr. leeham it appears EA took the defensive posture you did and chose to ignore their customers and leave them with a broken product to this day.

Think about it mr. leeham, your arguing with a person who was making one of the better mods for bf2, has intimate knowledge about how the game works and your trying to tell him how it works. Your close minded statements and your defensive attitude speak volumes. You think EA is great, fine, but the game has been broken, still is broken and has upset a great many customers.

I could have bitched and moaned all day in the forums about EA, instead I chose to not purchase Command and Conquer 3. This wasnt out of spite either, it was for the fact that I didnt want to deal with the issues I had with BF2 with another title, and since they both fly under the EA banner... well you get the idea. Thats all you have to do, if you are not satisfied with a product, return it, if you cant return it, do not buy any more of the product. I would appreciate the negative and positive comments about bf2 if I were looking through these forums to help decide if I wanted to purchase this title.

in closing, I personally think you have lost this rebuttle mr. leeham, if you do not wish to hear more legitimate complaints about a game where the support was half a$$ed to put it at best, I suggest you not read these forums since they are full of unhappy customers.

[proto]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

Think about it mr. leeham, your arguing with a person who was making one of the better mods for bf2, has intimate knowledge about how the game works and your trying to tell him how it works.

QFT...

[=98=]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

I couldn't agree with you more Leeham!!!

Remember, EA are out to make money, cos they are a business with shareholders. They are not out there to release patches at your beck and call. They release a good game, we pay our money, thats pretty much all they care about (At too rightly). I know people say they will never buy another EA game, but, if its good, you will won't you!?

[||3rb||MOBB]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

quote from spaceballs the movie

"I'm surrounded by a$$holes"

[prodical]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

EA/DICE failed on Battlefield 2 much like they did with 1942 (don't get me wrong 1942 is an awesome game but it took awhile to get there). Battlefield 2 took modern combat games to a new level with it being a FPS, what it failed to do is actually take anything from modern combat and implement it, another thing it failed on was allowing DICE to drop Trauma Studios because of a purchase over-seas and Trauma didn't want to move (remember they had been working for a number of years on Desert Combat without having to move or really see anybody) this was perhaps the biggest mistake that EA/DICE made. Had Trauma stayed on all those pretty videos you see on youtube would have happened, as it is now I wait for Frontlines: Fuel of War to be released and I'm sure that will be mod-friendly and not dumbed down (by the way this game is coming from a few members of the once Trauma Studios). Closing comments I have: Battlefield 2 isn't a bad game it lacks support a great deal but that is not unlike EA or DICE, this game had a lot of potential when it was first advertised to be released it looked good and seemed really interesting, but after release we found out that all these things that were shown in the trailers were not there (there were a lot of things in the trailers that were left out of the game) this almost sealed the fact that EA rushed DICE to release the game as quick as possible (I can only imagine for money) and thus the game came out half finished and with a lot of things missing (which were later added in the expansions, well for the most part) this is what angered gamers is the fact they were misled.

[-Shifty-]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

QFT...

Yeah the part he said was retty true but we still should be a bit more appretiative. If you know what I mean.

[Liam.]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

Gmax is software that is completely independent of BF2. Neither EA nor DICE created the software.

I didn't say that they did, I said they released Gmax TOOLS.

No, and nobody is failing to understand anything, as you claim.

DICE stated that they would release mod tools, and that the engine itself would be modifiable to some degree (more than it is at the moment).

But that is not the actual purpose of the engine, they have released mod tools, and as far as I can see the engine is modifiable, I don't believe nukes are in the vanilla game, yet Camobox has nukes, I don't remember artillery being fired from vehicles, yet when I play Dcon I can do so.

And now they are completely useless. DICE are one of the worst when it comes to balance issues. There is no middle ground for them - it's either a, completely useless, or b, grossly overpowered.

Maybe you're right, I can't think of every single change made so I can't really comment on this.

I have always wanted to say that but have never found the information or right words.

Quite honestly it doesn't take long, I had wanted to say this for awhile, but I only just found the kind of resources I needed.

when so many people complain that they feel they didnt get adequate support for a product, those responsible may want to take time to listen and fix it, instead mr. leeham it appears EA took the defensive posture you did and chose to ignore their customers and leave them with a broken product to this day.

I can install BF2, I can play BF2 - it is not broken.

Think about it mr. leeham, your arguing with a person who was making one of the better mods for bf2, has intimate knowledge about how the game works and your trying to tell him how it works. Your close minded statements and your defensive attitude speak volumes. You think EA is great, fine, but the game has been broken, still is broken and has upset a great many customers.

See above.
I'm not trying to tell anyone how it works, I'm saying what I see. I see EA 'supporting' the mod community with the same level of tools and online resources as any other game company out there.

in closing, I personally think you have lost this rebuttle mr. leeham, if you do not wish to hear more legitimate complaints about a game where the support was half a$$ed to put it at best, I suggest you not read these forums since they are full of unhappy customers.

Sorry, if you see this is a competition of some kind then you shouldn't have bothered reading this topic.

I couldn't agree with you more Leeham!!!

Remember, EA are out to make money, cos they are a business with shareholders. They are not out there to release patches at your beck and call. They release a good game, we pay our money, thats pretty much all they care about (At too rightly). I know people say they will never buy another EA game, but, if its good, you will won't you!?

And when they do they'll find something else to moan about. A lot of people don't know about the shareholders because we as a public consumer do not need to see them. They have to please their shareholders above all else, that once again is how businesses work.

EA/DICE failed on Battlefield 2 much like they did with 1942 (don't get me wrong 1942 is an awesome game but it took awhile to get there). Battlefield 2 took modern combat games to a new level with it being a FPS, what it failed to do is actually take anything from modern combat and implement it, another thing it failed on was allowing DICE to drop Trauma Studios because of a purchase over-seas and Trauma didn't want to move (remember they had been working for a number of years on Desert Combat without having to move or really see anybody) this was perhaps the biggest mistake that EA/DICE made.

I have to refer you to the sales figures again, 2 million copies sold as of July 06, I don't believe that is much of a failure. BF2 is not a realism trip, it's not a simulation, it's an arcade First-Person-Shooter. The point isn't to have super-realistic ballistics models or the latest high-tech weaponary - it's about enjoying the action. I repeat - this is not a simulation.

Battlefield 2 isn't a bad game it lacks support a great deal but that is not unlike EA or DICE, this game had a lot of potential when it was first advertised to be released it looked good and seemed really interesting, but after release we found out that all these things that were shown in the trailers were not there (there were a lot of things in the trailers that were left out of the game) this almost sealed the fact that EA rushed DICE to release the game as quick as possible (I can only imagine for money) and thus the game came out half finished and with a lot of things missing (which were later added in the expansions, well for the most part) this is what angered gamers is the fact they were misled.

Read previou posts regarding the employee:consumer ratio. And also read previous posts about the pre-release trailer, this just is not a sign of a rushed game, it's a part of development.

[Garabaldi]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

But that is not the actual purpose of the engine

I suppose you are right, but, you seem to be arguing that every company should be able to get away with as little work as possible. No game company has to do anything, you're right, but if they want people to continue purchasing their products into the forseeable future, it would probably be in their best interest to do so.

they have released mod tools, and as far as I can see the engine is modifiable, I don't believe nukes are in the vanilla game, yet Camobox has nukes, I don't remember artillery being fired from vehicles, yet when I play Dcon I can do so.

Yes. I am aware the engine is modifiable to a certain extent, the problem is, this is only to a very limited extent. Ask any mod maker how modifiable the BF2 engine is, and the answer you will get is likely "not very".

Here is what I think the problem is.

You are not apart of the modding community - you do not have even passing knowledge of how mods work, or what must be done to create them, thus, I don't think it is really appropriate for you to comment on the situation of the community, when most people in it are in disagreement with your views about the wonderful support EA has given.

[prodical]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

I suppose you are right, but, you seem to be arguing that every company should be able to get away with as little work as possible. No game company has to do anything, you're right, but if they want people to continue purchasing their products into the forseeable future, it would probably be in their best interest to do so.



Yes. I am aware the engine is modifiable to a certain extent, the problem is, this is only to a very limited extent. Ask any mod maker how modifiable the BF2 engine is, and the answer you will get is likely "not very".

Here is what I think the problem is.

You are not apart of the modding community - you do not have even passing knowledge of how mods work, or what must be done to create them, thus, I don't think it is really appropriate for you to comment on the situation of the community, when most people in it are in disagreement with your views about the wonderful support EA has given.

Project Reality...One of if not THE best mod out there, what destroyed mods in the long run...rank system another poorly implemented system in battlefield 2, along with the complications with modding the engine itself...1942 was easy to mod having no experience with modding myself I was able to lightly mod 1942 and make it a more enjoyable game for myself, battlefield 2 I can't do so because it isn't very friendly to mod for me and I can only imagine not friendly for anyone to mod, though Project Reality did great things with the game it took them awhile to work through the kinks in the engine and they still are releasing beta's (I can only assume as you haven't hit version 1 yet). I agree this game is modifiable but not the the extent 1942 or Vietnam was...EA/DICE should release the code for the ranking system that way it can either be demolished by a mod or implemented, otherwise mods will stay in the background on this game where as with 1942 mods were the only way to play.

[davelisowski]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

So this is your first EA purchase?

I don't need to say much more than that.

[-Shifty-]

Re: 'Lack of Support'

ok now I'm lost