Speculating on the hitbox problem.

[eastcoasthandle]

Before I get started I wanted to point out that this is simply speculation on my part. If anyone is kind enough to test this out do so and report the findings.

Before I get started I want to make clear that what I am about to post is my speculation on the hitbox problem.

I've been doing some research and it appears that a portion of the hitbox problem maybe a result of your setup. If you didn't know some monitors have something called input lag. Which basically is

difference between the time a signal is inputted into a display and the time it is shown by the display

This is a bigger problem online then it is offline because of the margin of error is so much less and you also have to add the ping lag to the server on top of your lag to the monitor making things a whole lot worst. What ultimately happens is that BF2 player on your screen (that you just shot at but get that puff of smoke) is do to (example):
-you have a 100ms lag from the server
-you have a 8ms lag from your mouse to your monitor
-you have a 2 frames (33ms+) behind the actual frame rate of the game itself. This maybe the result of turning on Vsync and triple buffering.
-Finally the actual response time of your monitor (8ms for example)
Will give you a total lag of 149ms (in this example). What this means is that 49ms of lag can be solely the result of the computer setup. Don't get me wrong, most will not notice 49ms and it's not a consistent 49ms lag either. This could be the high end of the lag with it drop where you don't notice it at all.

What you see is that your shot didn't register however, you get that poof of smoke or no smoke at all. Other time, the players you see can shift position without explanation on your part. Even worst, your shot doesn't register at all (no smoke, nothing).

But there appears to be some hope to all this that mitigates this problem. If you own a wireless mouse I have read post that G5/G7 does help reduce input lag to the monitor. If you own a wired mouse, increasing the polling rate can help. XP normally set the polling rate of your mouse at 8ms @ 125MHz. This is pretty high for playing online therefore you will want to reduce this as much as possible. However, it would be adventitious to buy a mouse that supports higher polling rates like the MX518, Razar, etc. When you change the polling rate you are trying to get as close as 1ms (1000MHz) - 2ms (500MHz) as possible. Most standard mice will not function at 1000MHz and some computer systems may not function properly. Remember when you change the polling rate of the usb you change all your USB ports. By doing this you are trying to decrease the time between your mouse signal into the display and the time it is shown on the display.

Other things you will need to do is:
-disable triple buffering
-disable VSync


Remember this is my speculations of hitbox problem.

Also, if you have 10 minutes to spare take a moment and read this article about LCD image delay

[Liam.]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Generally, you shouldn't play on severs above 100m/s anyway. I overheard on a TeamSpeak conversation that you can go to around 220m/s without phsysically noticing lag yourself but with the factors that you stated, anything above 100m/s isn't great.

So, if you stick to local servers giving you a low ping then the other two factors shouldn't matter any more unless you have a very bad response time on your monitor.

But this won't stop people, heck, doesn't stop me playing on a US server, pinging around 120, monitor has 8ms response time - I generally don't have problems.

[imported_Ph1L]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Ehm.. Do you recommend set 16xAF in the Nvidia Control Panel or set it in BF2 video options?

[Liam.]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

You should probably use HardWare AF.

In nVidia Control Panel, go to the 3d settings as normal, on the advanced settings part, choose 'Program Settings' and find BF2 on the list. Set your options from there, this way AFx16 is automatically loaded when you open BF2 but you don't have to disable it to play any other game that you wouldn't want it enabled on.

[eastcoasthandle]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

AF is very essential aspect for this game and I have mine set to 16x, regardless. Upping the AA/AF shouldn't be an issue on a decent video card, IMO.

[LuckySeven]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

...monitor has 8ms response time - I generally don't have problems.

He wasn't talking about response time, that's the smallest problem of all. He was talking about input lag, which often is greater than response time indeed. And if response time would be everything, I'd already have an LCD display.

But very nice post eastcoasthandle, all known stuff to me, but for most this is new. Increasing polling rate will greatly increase smoothness at least in BF2, it's not about the delay, it's just much more smooth.

About LCD displays: If you play with one, you agree that you'll never be equal to an CRT gamer. You will always be late and even if you're equal in skill, CRT will kill you first. You forgot to mention that almost all LCD's run at 60hz, which also adds another 17ms.

Edit: It's because of all this that we have hit indicator. I find it very difficult to play in lan circumstances because I'm used to a latency of 30-50ms. Also, some games already have internal framerate limiter for online play set at 60fps to encourage people to buy LCD displays by decreasing the performance gap between LCD and CRT.

E2: One day I did some experimenting with sniper scopes and moving, trying to find a way to tweak snipers more realistic. I ended up with a small delay in the crosshair prior to mouse movements. And as you all know, in BF bullets always hit in the middle of the screen the result was pretty much automatic lead calculation. Basically crosshair was dragging an inch behind center of the screen while moving it. I messed up with it in lan and bots for a while and it felt really strange to actually place the crosshair on the head and hit it. Usually you have to lead even several meters, but this was exact and accurate.

[imported_Ph1L]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

AF is very essential aspect for this game and I have mine set to 16x, regardless. Upping the AA/AF shouldn't be an issue on a decent video card, IMO.

Do I have to do it in BF2 video settings or Nvidia COntrol Panel? I have an 7900gtx 512mb, v91.73 driver.

Last time I messed with it, my console got fvcked up lol

[Liam.]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Check my post right after your first.

[eastcoasthandle]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

LuckySeven:

Although I will agree that CRT are the base to a accurate frame rate to what's being displayed when online it's a slightly different story. The reason being is 2 words, server ping. Unless you actually own the server or admin/play on a server very close to you will the advantage will noticeable and consistent.

Do I have to do it in BF2 video settings or Nvidia COntrol Panel? I have an 7900gtx 512mb, v91.73 driver.

Last time I messed with it, my console got fvcked up lol

I believe Leeham is correct when he suggested that you go into the Nvidia Control Panel to set it to 16x. What you do then is go to:
X:\Documents and Settings\your name\My Documents\Battlefield 2\mods\bf2\cache and delete your cache folder within the sub-directory of cache. Then start BF2. You shouldn't have any problems when you do that. However, make sure you have the most stable drivers. I've learned the hard way that the most recent drivers doesn't make them the most stable for your gaming. I have an ATI so I am not sure which Nvidia driver to suggest. However, I do ask whenever your update drivers that you use a program like driver cleaner in XP's safe mode to remove drivers in virtual memory.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

What the hell is this..

Hitbox lag/problems has NOTHING to do with your computer or your mouse or anything.


The reason you get "puffs" and it doesn't register, is because the server has to receive info from the guy your shooting at about his position, it has to send that to your computer to show it, and then wherever you are shooting back at him has to go back to the server. It has to do with how physically close you are to the server the game is running on...

Say you're on a hamachi server right... your machine is the "server". You will have NO hitbox lag. You will find you don't even have to lead targets.. EVERY shot will hit AND register.. F-35B takes 2 missles to kill a J-10 consistantly. All jets get hit by every missle. TV missles never pass through anything... ETC ETC...

Has NOTHING to do with your computer at all. It really DOES have everything to do with your ping, and the other guys ping..

What they should have done was figure out a way to make the player model and the hitbox lag at the same speed, so even if they were "lagging" on your screen if you hit them, you hit them.

[camper.]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

And on top of that, 8ms of input lag is far from noticeable, and it wouldn't even matter because ping can fluctuate +-whatever ms, dwarfing its effect. I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever switching between CRT & LCD.

[eastcoasthandle]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

What the hell is this..

Hitbox lag/problems has NOTHING to do with your computer or your mouse or anything.


The reason you get "puffs" and it doesn't register, is because the server has to receive info from the guy your shooting at about his position, it has to send that to your computer to show it, and then wherever you are shooting back at him has to go back to the server. It has to do with how physically close you are to the server the game is running on...

Say you're on a hamachi server right... your machine is the "server". You will have NO hitbox lag. You will find you don't even have to lead targets.. EVERY shot will hit AND register.. F-35B takes 2 missles to kill a J-10 consistantly. All jets get hit by every missle. TV missles never pass through anything... ETC ETC...

Has NOTHING to do with your computer at all. It really DOES have everything to do with your ping, and the other guys ping..

What they should have done was figure out a way to make the player model and the hitbox lag at the same speed, so even if they were "lagging" on your screen if you hit them, you hit them.

If we were to take what you say as gospel running a x800xt on a P4c800-e Prem MB should yield the same results in Bf2 as C2D x6800 on a P5W DH. Obviously your post is flawed. The reasoning behind my speculations is that there are people who have 10ms ping and less, fiber optic service, using a server with dual opty and still have hit reg problems. Therefore, it is only logical to believe there are other factors at work besides ping alone. As, I've stated before what I posted is speculation so don't get all emo about it.

And on top of that, 8ms of input lag is far from noticeable, and it wouldn't even matter because ping can fluctuate +-whatever ms, dwarfing its effect. I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever switching between CRT & LCD.

Hmm, I don't recall posting speculation about 8ms, only

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

If we were to take what you say as gospel running a x800xt on a P4c800-e Prem MB should yield the same results in Bf2 as C2D x6800 on a P5W DH. Obviously your post is flawed. The reasoning behind my speculations is that there are people who have 10ms ping and less and still have hit reg problems. Therefore, is only logical to believe there are other facts at work besides ping.


Hmm, I don't recall posting speculation about 8ms, only

Ok... Download hamachi (google it) and set up a server with your friend..

Do a hitreg test..

Now go into a bf2 server, and do the same test.. come back and tell me what happened.

Has nothing to do with the computer.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Eastcoasthandle, youre on the wrong side. You dont have a clue what youre talking about, even with all the knowledge you possess.

Heres the deal, the hitboxs lag is present, thats an undeniable fact. People playing with the difference of 10-30 ms on intraweb witness it. People playing with 10-30 ms difference on hamachi server, or on LAN server, dont.

How come in some games, with the same ping difference, there are no hitbox issues at all, and youve got plenty of it in BF2? Answer? Bad netcode.

And while theres definitely, undeniably, machine lag, you can still shoot and hit your targets, cant you? Smokepuffs are the sign. Yet you have no hits on the hitbox. And there are plenty of cases where hitboxes lag BEHIND, but your theory would mean that people should lead significantly AHEAD.

[eastcoasthandle]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Ok... Download hamachi (google it) and set up a server with your friend..

Do a hitreg test..

Now go into a bf2 server, and do the same test.. come back and tell me what happened.

Has nothing to do with the computer.

I tell you what, you download virtual stopwatch setup your dual monitor using your LCD and borrow your friends monitor and do a quick stop watch test between the 2. All you do is start the test and stop it in both screen. Post a photo of the results. On average LCD monitor do lag behind CRT, that will show you your lag between the mouse and the LCD monitor vs the quicker response time with your CRT.

Here is an example of what I mean


Like I said before, no need to get emo about it. As you can clearly see, there is lag between pressing the mouse button and the response of stopping the program between the 2 screens be it LCD, CRT, whatever. The focus here is to point out that lag can/does exist between your mouse and monitor (depending on which on you have). This same lag only adds to your ping as I noted in my OP. However, this is still speculation on my part.