Speculating on the hitbox problem.

[disfigured]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

I think Eastcoast is suggesting that any amount of delay is a delay.

One needs to see the target, place the reticule on it, and click a mouse button before anything happens. With a poor quality LCD (which many kids own), this delay is magnified.

By how much in relation to the total amount of ms "disadvantage" you are playing is probably minuscule.

From everything I've read, any LCD above 6ms, your going to notice less seamlessness in your graphics then even the most basic CRT.

My CRT is getting long in the tooth now (7 years) but I'll take it over all but the most expensive LCDs even now. I've seen it side by side against some fairly espensive LCDs at private LAN parties and there is a difference. If I can visually see the difference, then it's got to relate how the game is played coming from the users of each monitor type.

Again, how much effect it has is debatable, and whether or not that effect is even noticeable.

Who the hell plays on servers over 100ms anyway? I have a hundred choices below 100ms. I simply play at those servers, in fact I rarely play on a server that is above 80. I just rule those higher pinged servers out, as places I don't play.

Ping is King. Even with the strides developers have made in not having the adverse effects high pings used to, it's still a factor. Low ping should be your first consideration when choosing a server to play on. If it is, most of this discussion is moot .

[LuckySeven]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

It's wrong to say BF2 is somehow extraordinary. Every game has some network lag, more or less. Even in games like CS it's very well present. While using hitsounds on client side you may hit all the time in CS. BF doesn't have hitsounds on client or server but there's indicator and puff. Now it's rather stupid say BF2 has bad netcode because puffs are visible but there are no hits. It's the hit indicator you're supposed to rely on, not what you see. Besides in CS you can adjust certain values which help to compensate hitting. In BF2 it's much more difficult if not impossible and maybe it's better considering the skills and knowledge of B's player base.

But do not underestimate the machine lag. It's present and does have it's own part in the mix. I find it funny when people complain about hitboxes and animations and so on. With a little experimenting and exploring they'd learn to understand why things are what they are and how should you take it into consideration.

And there's on reason why BF2 looks so awkward sometimes. As always in games, clientside random deviation and bullet holes in objects have nothing to do with server. So when you spam with M249 and it looks like you hit the head a couple of times you may be unlucky on server side. Or vice versa. Btw, have you ever seen a tank shell or a rocket hit a target on client but miss on the server? There's an explosion with no effect, but after a split second you see the missile still flying. That's probably one reason why there's also client side hit prediction, because otherwise it'd look very messed up. The whole thing consists of so many factors that you can't just say bad netcode.

If I remember right, some Medal of Honor used client side hit registeration. Soon people circumvented all their net traffic through a proxy which added a few hits now and then, not to even talk about hacking it.

[disfigured]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

That's so true Lucky. Trust your hit detector and not the graphics.

I find it humorous with all these things taken into consideration, that some people attempt to play this game like other games that have client side. It's meant to be "clunky" and unreliable. Not accurate and twitchy.

That's why there are so many other things in the game that determine winning and losing, not just how "good" any individual is at pointing and clicking faster then another.

Although I play on low pinged servers as a rule of thumb, I could actually go in a 200ms server, choose the engineer kit, continually mine choke points and be quite productive towards a win for the team.

Ever since I started playing BF2 and before that BF1942, I never got the feeling of "I got ripped off, he should have died". The game just never gave me the feeling or impression that it was supposed to supply me with that type of interaction with it.

Do everything you can to put yourself in a position to make the other guy miss before you engage anyone, has just as much to do with BF2 as actually making the shot. If you run headlong into every other opponent on the server your going to end up disappointed with some of the results.

[eastcoasthandle]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

But let me point out even if you have the worst input lag it's still minuscule when you are playing a single player FPS. Online FPS ping only compounds the problem. Sure it's possible that someone will see you before you see them but for them to always get the better of you would mean (in most cases were there is consistency) they are using an aimbot. The real problem comes in when you place your cross hair on them and cannot get a descent shot. From what I read 33ms of lag is equal to 2 frames. If you have a total input and ping lag of 33ms the other player can be 2 frames more responsive then you if they have no input lag (rare situation). But lets not make a big deal here, in normal human conditions this should equal:
-1-2 steps movements
-aim and adjust to location to shot you
If they are killing you in 1 shot within 2 frames they are using an aimbot, bottom line. Or they are using scripts and macros which gives them an edge to fire 2-3 rounds within 2 frames. That's the kind of advantage a script/macro can offer someone with very little to no lag. Because of this alone is reason enough to ban them from online FPS game play.

I suggest that you invest in a wired mouse. That way you in can improve the mouse poll switching from 8ms to 2 or 1 sec. The best mouse that I have found so far is the MX518. When I applied the mouse poller switch to 1000Mhz the MX518's rate was about 800Mhz giving it roughly 1.5ms delay. There are others like the:
Sharkoon
i-rock
DeathAdder and Habu
MX518
But you have to do your research and find a mouse that is best for your needs.
However, make sure you do what you can by improving mouse response, disabling Vsycn and triple buffer.

[TotalBF2er]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

I just want to know why someone can charge headlong into my bullets when I'm in a prone position and firing at them an entire clip and they somehow manage to live long enough to kill me first.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Because the netcode sucks.. and remember.. the LAST thing you want to do, is LEAD the target.. the hitbox lags behind the character model.. just remember that.

[vik1ng]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

BF doesn't have hitsounds on client or server but there's indicator and puff. Now it's rather stupid say BF2 has bad netcode because puffs are visible but there are no hits. It's the hit indicator you're supposed to rely on, not what you see.

So what you are basically saying here is that I should shoot at something that I can't see. Is that right or am I missing something here?

Explain to me, even with all that added lag from mouse and a monitor why am I getting dust from a guy's head which I shot in the head at point blank while both of us just standing there, or why am wasting my entire clip into the guy's back and simply he turns around and shoots me with one bullet, why shots register when I shoot behind him while guy's running and why I'm getting puffs when shooting at him in the head while he's running, while prone why the guy can't hit me (ex. 5 meters) and when I move just slightly it's an instant kill. I can't go on and on...

This code is just badly written and there is nothing more to it. You can add all the lag you want from hardware and software, if the code was written right we wouldn't have half the problem we have now in that game.

Ever since I got LCD (2ms) I think I got even better to tell you the truth. It took me couple of days to get used to it but I don't see any difference at all besides nicer and brighter colors. Also, it is strange but I can see enemies through buildings. :laugh:

[TotalBF2er]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Because the netcode sucks.. and remember.. the LAST thing you want to do, is LEAD the target.. the hitbox lags behind the character model.. just remember that.

No, he's running right at me. Straight on. This happens way too many times. Yet I can 1 shot someone 500 yards away...

[=TOL=elitemafia]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Why is it that when I snipe I can have the crosshair right on someone whos sitting still and the bullet wont hit him? And don't tell me it's bullet drop because theres no bullet drop 5 meters away from me..

[eastcoasthandle]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Why is it that when I snipe I can have the crosshair right on someone whos sitting still and the bullet wont hit him? And don't tell me it's bullet drop because theres no bullet drop 5 meters away from me..

The problem is simple (regardless of how the lag came about). On your screen he shown as sitting still however he could be 1-3 frames ahead of you from what you see. What this means is that you are seeing him 1-3 frames later. It's like you are seeing his shadow in which 33ms ago (which equals to 2 frames) you saw him (right now) sitting still. You fire but get nothing as if you are shooting at the air. What this means is that he moved but you don't see it yet. Because this is not consistent you will eventually catch up to him and be on the same frame rate as he is, thus being able to get the 1 shot kill.
Yes, this is very frustrating but at least you are never consistently laging behind someone.

Is net code part of the problem, of course I never implied that input lag substitute poor net coding nor did I ever imply that it replace ping either. What I am saying is simple, input lag (given the right conditions) can adds to other lag that exist in the game be it net code/ping, etc.

[TotalBF2er]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

It's Shaw Cable's so-called High-Speed Xtreme-I internet speed. These guys are so full of ****, it's amazing.

We're paying an extra $10 CAN a month to get the extra speed, and frankly, I don't see any difference in the bandwidth or it's speed after we've paid for it.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

The problem is simple (regardless of how the lag came about). On your screen he shown as sitting still however he could be 1-3 frames ahead of you from what you see. What this means is that you are seeing him 1-3 frames later. It's like you are seeing his shadow in which 33ms ago (which equals to 2 frames) you saw him (right now) sitting still. You fire but get nothing as if you are shooting at the air. What this means is that he moved but you don't see it yet. Because this is not consistent you will eventually catch up to him and be on the same frame rate as he is, thus being able to get the 1 shot kill.
Yes, this is very frustrating but at least you are never consistently laging behind someone.

Is net code part of the problem, of course I never implied that input lag substitute poor net coding nor did I ever imply that it replace ping either. What I am saying is simple, input lag (given the right conditions) can adds to other lag that exist in the game be it net code/ping, etc.

That's BS because you can have someone sit still for a minute, and shoot them at the 30 second mark, and you can still get puffs..

It has NOTHING to do with your hardware that will actually make a difference.. it's the ****ty netcode and a few other things.

[camper.]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

Not only that, but saying 8ms of input lag matters is like saying the time it takes for sound to actually reach your ears from your PC matters. It doesn't.

[eastcoasthandle]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

That's BS because you can have someone sit still for a minute, and shoot them at the 30 second mark, and you can still get puffs..

It has NOTHING to do with your hardware that will actually make a difference.. it's the ****ty netcode and a few other things.

:laugh: :laugh:

Care to back that up with some facts? I've already done so, just go back to page 1 of this thread. It's very immature of you to post the way you do and, on top of that have no facts to back them up other then your emo.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Speculating on the hitbox problem.

I don't need to get the facts because it is common knowledge..