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Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

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  • Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

    Hear me out.

    Please keep in mind that it's late at night, so that is my excuse if this post is incoherent babble .

    Rewind a few years, back to late 2002. A little game called Battlefield 1942 is released by a little known developer out of Sweden, Digital Illusions CE, or DICE. The game came out of nowhere, and was a massive success, going on to sell more than 3 000 000 copies worldwide. The game was fun, despite having such a simple concept. You were given free rein of an entire battlefield, with tanks, planes, ships and a whole bunch of other vehicles which you could actually pilot. Vehicular combat had not been done successfully on the same scale in any other previous titles, so BF1942 was really an evolution in online warfare. BF1942 spawned numerous modifications, which offered something for everybody. If you were a WWII buff who liked authentic detail and realism, there was Forgotten Hope. If you wanted to take up arms in the Indochina conflict, there was Eve of Destruction. If you were into modern warfare, there was the infamous Desert Combat - the mod that would ultimately spawn Battlefield 2.

    Fast forward an unpopular iteration, Battlefield Vietnam and a few years, and you have Battlefield 2, a true, full blown sequel to the massively successful BF1942, including a whole bunch of new features. One of the features which was being touted by the developers most often was the persistent stat tracking system where you kept a presistent identity, and your online avatar would 'level up', earning ranks, awards and new weapons, the more you played, and the better you became.

    Fast forward another year, and here we are. Let's take a look at just a few of the problems which plague BF2 currently, and which I think can be directly linked to persistent stat tracking.

    Karkand - Let's face it - 24/7 Karkand servers make up nearly 1/3 of the total number of BF2 server. This is completely ridiculous, considering the game ships with a staggering 11 other maps! Karkand isn't played because it is the best map, rather, because it is a map which facilitates easy, and abundant points. It is perfect for those who want to camp the alleyway spawn points in an armor. It is perect for those who wish to exploit specific features, like glitching into buildings. It is perfect for those who want to spam grenades and claymores. It is perfect for those who jump and dive in the air to avoid fire. It is perfect for people who want quick, easy points.

    Points.

    Points are the reason people play Karkand. It is by far the easiest map to attain points. People can jump around and spam grenades as much as they wish, and nobody will make a peep, because each and every one of them is doing the exact same.

    Instead of adaptingto such threats as aircraft, Karkand-ers would rather eliminate them entirely. BF2's combat is entirely "rock,paper,scissors" in that every weapon and asset has another weapons or asset which can counter it, and each of these weapons also has a weapon which can counter it and so on and so forth. People whine about tanks, altogether failing to notice that there happens to be a kit specifically intended to deal with armored threats. The inability of the typical BF2 player to adapt and overcome specific obstacles and challenges which they deem "too hard" had led to the incessant Karkand playing.

    People play Karkand for points, as I see no other motivation for playing it almost exclusively. If these people really were playing for fun, they would venture outside of their dusty, brown city, and explore other vistas, such as a large nuclear plant, or a dense fog filled jungle. Some people have payed upwards of $50.00 for a single map.

    Mods - Mods were commonplace in the two previous Battlefield games, and were usually of higher quality than the unmodified game. People had no qualms with playing such mods, because they had nothing to lose.

    This has changed with BF2.

    Now, people have everything to lose. They may lose their whole virtual penis if they play a mod because, god forbid, mods are not supported by the official ranking system.

    "With no ranking system and awards, how will other people know that I am better than them!"

    Modifications offer a whole new experience for free, and unfortunately, too few players will even give them a chance, because they lack the one thing which makes BF2 great. Not the gameplay, or the sound, or the visuals, but the ranking system.

    The ranking system rewards lone wolf play. You are rewarded more often than not for individual accomplishments instead of team play. This has caused a whole new breed of player to emerge. These are the players who 'own' that tank or jet you just happened to get in to. The same players whom will shoot you out of the cockpit using their M95, or lay C4 on a road which you must use to travel.

    The ranking system itself is a good idea. It's a bit like communism. It looks good on paper, but once you throw actual people into the mix, it crumbles. Awards keep you coming back, and make you feel as if you have actually accomplished something. What you should really try to accomplish instead of getting your Expert Sniper Badge, is having fun.

    Sorry for this verbose post, but I had to get that off my chest, and would like to think what you as a community thinks about the ranking system.

    Also, please forgive any spelling mistakes or other errors with my grammar. I'll go over this post in the morning and correct any mistakes whcih I may have missed.

  • #2
    Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

    I agree, the ranking system puts everyone for themselves, promotes lone wolfing, and gives players a feel of "leetness". Not to mention, unlocks, which greatly unbalance the game, and noobies get sloughtered by them when they first start.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

      I do not think it is better or worse because of points. My most played map on ranked is Karkand, some IO, some vehicles. I happen to enjoy playing it a lot, I normally am squad lead on US side, and I take my squad to the back, going for the win. I play on good servers.

      I enjoy earning medals and badges, and I like how you earn unlcoks, whether they are good, or bad. I like the idea of gaining rank with more expierience. Does this make me a terrible gamer? because I like Karkand, and like gaining rank? because I enjoy the base game enough that I do not need to dowload mods? I love BF2. I love every map, IO, vehicles. I love flying, being in armour, and being on foot.


      I must be a bad person because I like feeling like I earn things. Yes, stat padding is a problem, but not everyone does it. Some people play the game for fun, but like having the stats as a bonus. That is exactly how I play.

      *EDIT* QUOTE "Not to mention, unlocks, which greatly unbalance the game, and noobies get sloughtered by them when they first start."

      LOL, unlocks do not unbalance anything, I use more base weapons than unlocks, and kill more readily with an M16 than a G36e.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

        It took me a month before I realized that BF2 wasn't Battlefield: Karkand.

        Once I realized that, I forever swore to avoid the stage like the plague it is.

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        • #5
          Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

          Originally posted by brianthebold
          LOL, unlocks do not unbalance anything
          Thats why its $30 for a set of unlocks, which contain "better" weapons, when originally they were suposed to be alternative weapons (the G36E's stats for example are better in EVERY way then the M-16). This gives people who sucked EA's c...err bought SF have advantage over normal people. Now, newbies who start playing will be "owned" by these people, and it will turn them off to this game, so they will want points, to get unlocks, whitch they will point whore, and buy SF, which they do stuff that the topic creator mentioned, and the whole community is a big bunch of stat whores. See where I'm going?

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          • #6
            Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

            Points are the reason people play Karkand. It is by far the easiest map to attain points. People can jump around and spam grenades as much as they wish, and nobody will make a peep, because each and every one of them is doing the exact same.
            Although I do agree with it being the easiest map to earn points on ect., I only play Karkand cause it's all my specs can handle.

            I'd give almost anything to be able to play any other map, but my specs just can't handle all the trees, bombings, explosions, water, ect.

            Pretty soon I'll have more RAM though, and while it will be a looooong hard journey to change my most played map stat, I'll actually be playing something other than I/O Karkand, although I suck at vehicle maps now.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

              Stats mean nothing, rank means nothing. I can be a private and kick your *** anyway, or I can be a super nerd Colonel rank and you kick my ***. We need to get back to the Counterstrike days in games, simply rank the players for how well they did that round, and have fun.

              Ranking and stats are inaccurate, and therefore there is no need to keep records of them. The defensive teamplayer such as myself will end a round 15-25, yet we helped our team win by defending key points on the map. Also, as AT, it takes me 3 times as long to kill an enemy (then the rest) because it's usually armor, hence my kills are less...

              Good players will be recognized by their peers, they don't need some pseudo-skill measuring record keeping that doesn't represent skill whatsoever.

              In fact, without unlocks and stats, BF2 probably would have been dead a year ago.

              I've never played for stats, for 'honor kills', rank or status in any game I've played. I just don't give a crap. This has allowed me to work outside the box and outside any restrictions the rank whores are bound by.

              Statistics shoulld be a personal thing, for feedback, and to improve one's game. Ie. Counterstrike, Damage Mod could show you how much damage you caused on your last opponent, where you hit (I always seemed to hit the left side of my target) etc, which helps you improve your game. Every other public stat is unneeded, inaccurate and who cares.

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              • #8
                Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

                I couldn't agree more.

                Well said.

                It's amazing but EA/DICE is very crafty. They essentially took stats that were already being accumulated. Tracked them. Assigned various awards and points for them , and told people it was a "new way to play" an FPS.

                They made no alteration to BF2 in order to do so, or if any very minor ones to track stats, and sucked in an entirely new demographic of player.

                The mini-van fruit rollup scoreless soccer game generation. Encouraged and rewarded their entire lives for even the most minor of achievements, the points/rank system fits right into their coddled lives.

                Couple this with the incessant cries for rules to make things easier, and you've got a formula for disaster. If they do venture outside of SAK, they want a protected area where they can spawn and ride off into the sunset in their jet. God forbid they should have to defend anything, or worse wait for the enemy to come to them.

                The point rank system was flawed from it's onset. Even for those who buy into it's malarkey. Server rules and map rotation are far too loose for any stats accumulated to mean anything when comparing them to other players. If you play SAK exclusively your stats are going to look nothing like some one who plays on a server that has a full map rotation. Then administered rules throw the mean off even more.

                The proof in the pudding is the IO mode. Once a rule that was not allowed to be administered (not getting in vehicles) now becomes a legitimate mode of play where stats are tracked and recorded? If it couldn't be an administered rule before because of the holier then thou BFROE, then how can it become an official mode of play? It doesn't make any sense, and that's not surprising because the entire BFROE, and the point/rank system never made any sense to begin with, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

                I believe the points players make the game worse for everyone. They change the entire dynamic of some servers for the worse, and all the while they complain the most about the game and how is played. Stat-padding, bias admins, cheats, glitches, bugs, all these things are elevated to a higher degree because of the fervor to get points. I mean really , who would sit an an obscure wall glitch and rack up "points" while his team lost, if not for the point/rank system.

                Before when a glitch was found (hangers in BF1942) you'd get the occasional wise guys who go in there just to infuriate people. But if the point system was applied to BF1942, the hangers would be full of people trying to 17-0 to improve their KD ratio.

                It's a lose lose situation for everyone.

                Personally I just thought it would be something interesting to look at now and then. "Gee, I've spent 16 minutes in parachute", how interesting". I had no idea it would change the face of what could have been the best PC multi-player game ever. I would have ranked BF2 above a few other games if it were not for the the point/rank system, and slight air imbalance that could have been addressed. Because of those two things it doesn't rank as one of my favorite PC games (multi-player).

                The shame of it is, with all the knuckle-heads running around, and the air imbalance, it still makes my top 5.

                There's another very bizarre result in all this. I'll call them the "offliners". People who normally wouldn't be attracted to a multi-player game now play the BF series. They look at BF2 like an off line game. Something to "beat" by collecting all the badges and rank. Previously the allure of the FPS online, was it's amazing replayability. Replacing humans for the AI made infinite situations and competition. It wasn't something you "beat" , it was something you played, because it was good. You didn't switch to another "shooter" till something came out that was better (graphically and/or gameplay wise).

                The "offliners" are fickle and are constant buyers of new games. MP players would play the same game for up to 2 years or more, and play it exclusively while buying no other products. Don't think that having something to "achieve" or "defeat" (beat) was put in just as an addition to the already hooked on multi-player FPS fans. It was put in to attract the offliners. I've seen it said in forums "I beat BF2, so I bought 2142" or "I got all the rank and unlocks so I bought 2142"

                Unfortunately the majority of people who play this way (not all), treat their fellow players like AI. Tking you, stealing your vehicle while your repairing it, running you over, is all just a means to an end. Essentially the traditional player has become the AI for some "offliners". Their excuse? It's a legitimate way to play, because it's set up that way.

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                • #9
                  Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

                  And yet many of us survived years of non-ranked games such as Counterstrike and Team Fortress and Unreal Tournament, and had hella fun doing it. Anytime stats was introduced to those games, the servers noticed a very significant change in player attitudes - for the worse - and many took them back off again.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

                    Originally posted by Ent|ty
                    In fact, without unlocks and stats, BF2 probably would have been dead a year ago.
                    I disagree, to some extent.

                    I can't imagine it, but it's fun to try.

                    Imagine BF2 with out the "point getters". It could become a fairly often tactical game. Even with it's arcadish slant, it has the ability to playout as an extremely strategic game.

                    There are a lot of players out there, mostly older ones (recent studies show the average age of the "onliner" has risen to over 30), who are waiting for something more, something new. I think BF2 could have almost fit that bill. If not for the point/rank system, there's no way to tell how this game would have approached.

                    There's also the patching of the game. Many patches were designed to appease the point getters. They certainly influenced some of the content of patches. If they weren't there from the start, BF2 may have been patched in an entirely different direction.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

                      You people read way to deep into this, stats and awards and such are just a way of showing what you have done, and fondly reminiscing on that time you go t your purple heart, or you first gold star. You do not need to be so uptight about it, and insulting players that do like the stats system is stupid. We are the "coddled" "scoreless soccer game" crowd? I hate soccer. I do not feel coddled by my points, and I feel as though they are (or should be) an indication of what you have done in the game.

                      Saying we should "go back to the counterstike way" is the single worst idea I have ever heard, CS is a boring, lame game, with worse hitboxes/accuraccy/hacking problems than BF2, and guess what? People hack even though it is not ranked, just so they feel special. I would play IO if it was not ranked, sometimes I just feel like grunt on grunt.

                      I played for 4 hours today on singleplayer, on OCS, against hard bots. I had a great time, and I did not earn a single point. Then, I played OCS against real people, had a great time, and earned a lot of points. In both cases, I had a great time, the only difference is, I had more fun with the real people, because they are real people first and foremost, but also because I like to keep track of how I do.

                      And insulting BFROE'S way of handling IO before it was official is stupid. They had there reasons. Now, it is a serverside option, most likely because the people wanted it, so now it is allowed. Shame on you for insulting the people that are trying to help out the honest players.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

                        Just as long as you know your stats mean ****, compared to other players. If you buy into the whole "I'm more skilled than you, because my rank is higher" you're sorely mistaken. We are talking about the players who go out of their way to ensure their K ratio, and play certain maps to affect their scores.

                        Originally posted by disfigured
                        I disagree, to some extent.

                        I can't imagine it, but it's fun to try.

                        Imagine BF2 with out the "point getters". It could become a fairly often tactical game. Even with it's arcadish slant, it has the ability to playout as an extremely strategic game.

                        There are a lot of players out there, mostly older ones (recent studies show the average age of the "onliner" has risen to over 30), who are waiting for something more, something new. I think BF2 could have almost fit that bill. If not for the point/rank system, there's no way to tell how this game would have approached.

                        There's also the patching of the game. Many patches were designed to appease the point getters. They certainly influenced some of the content of patches. If they weren't there from the start, BF2 may have been patched in an entirely different direction.
                        I only have a one word rebuttal to your statement; "Valve". Now that's a company that nows how to keep a franchise going, without ruining a game with every patch (until CS:S nubified everything)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

                          I suppose if a cumulative point system brings in more players, the two styles will be stuck with each other.

                          Perhaps they will refine the systems to better reflect the spirit of multi-player first person shooter.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

                            Good read disfigured.

                            :nod:

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Has the persistent scoring system ruined the Battlefield franchise?

                              Originally posted by Dairuka
                              Good read disfigured.

                              :nod:
                              Thank you, I had good motivation from an excellent opening post and all the other contributions.

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