ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

[AnotherEd]

So I ran into a server last week where it turned out they have a rule about no attacks into uncaps AND no attacks can be initiated out of uncaps. They figured it was the easiest way to manage against base raping by removing the desire for people to fire back when being attack from the uncap.

We played "The Iron Gator" (SF) on this server. The Essex carrier's guns are a primary defense against helis. Turns out they banned half the team because person after person would get in and fire upon a heli that was near/in the uncap. If anyone has played this map, they will probably be well aware that the Essex guns are critical in keeping helis from moving in easily. On top of it, their AA on shore was allowed to light the Apache up and target it, but NOT allowed to fire upon the Apache since the AA was "in the uncappable". Also, an AT can not sit on shore and take out the Essex guns.

While some maps may make more sense for such a rule to work properly, I think this map is clearly one which breaks to a point of being wrong under such a ruleset. I'm sure there are other circumstances where this ruleset could end up improperly restricting vehicle/tool usage.

This ruleset combined with their habit of banning immediately without warning (they claim your only warning is a console message that scrolls by periodically) has motivated me to understand what is going on at this server more.

While I understand the mentality under which this decision might result, I can't determine if it's a violation of the ROE or not. My initial reaction is that it seems to be a complete abberance and should not be tolerated.

I have indeed engaged the server administrators on their own forums for further understanding. At this point, I'm interested in further input from outsiders/the members here.

[signa]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

On top of it, their AA on shore was allowed to light the Apache up and target it, but NOT allowed to fire upon the Apache since the AA was "in the uncappable".

I guess I should add that right after they banned you (and 4 others) their mobile (in their uncap) destroyed me in the apache. I was gunning and when they banned ed I had to switch to pilot. right as that was happening the "admin" in the mobile gunned me down, breaking their own rules?

[Screaming_Bunny]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

Ed, you know that on our server the rule is no attacking the uncaps. But if you are engaged from the uncap, then you are allowed to attack, ie. the AA lights you up, then he is fair game. Plus, on that map there is only the MEC uncap. As for being against the ROE, I have no idea.

[RocketChild]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

Yeah, ROE has rules about this. They had been enforcing them on Insomnia but have since repealed them.

http://www.bfroe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2074

One of the contributors in that thread noted that on some maps, it should be very acceptable to attack the uncap, while others, it should be refrained from.

Kinda lame though to have double standards. It is so hard at times to be the law and enforce it soundly.

Edit: BTW, if you start an account over at that forum, make sure you put me as a referral. :p

[Screaming_Bunny]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

Yeah, ROE has rules about this. They had been enforcing them on Insomnia but have since repealed them.

http://www.bfroe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2074

Bleh, you need an account to even view that thread. Lame.

[RocketChild]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

Bleh, you need an account to even view that thread. Lame.

BFROE|IndianScout 12-17-2006 12:33
Base Raping and Sustained Attacks

Due to popular request, I have set the all the insomnia BF2 servers to ..

NO BASERAPING or Extended Attacks on UNCAPS only after all flags are taken ! ! !

ROE basis for this ruling..

Quote:
2.3 “In-House” Ranked Server Rules

Public Ranked Servers and Private rented clan servers may introduce custom rules that apply only to their servers and which result in minor changes to gameplay.

(d) Making attacks on enemy main bases (flags that cannot be captured), including artillery strikes, vehicle drops to block runways, bombing runs with aircraft or sustained infantry attacks. (Note that specific attacks targeting the enemy commander’s asset buildings are always allowed, even if they are within the enemy main base.)

your thoughts???

patton1337 12-17-2006 13:02
Dont noobify the server. If they dont like it theres 300 other servers to choose.

Jabomb9 12-17-2006 13:08
That's bs. At least the TV station on sharqi isn't uncappable. So now I can't not let the MEC chopper up on sharqi anymore?

ZekersSneakers 12-17-2006 13:11
Please don't... no strict rules like that are why insomnia are THE best servers out there!

Doing this just brings them down... once again I say please don't!

BFROE|IndianScout 12-17-2006 13:18
well from the numerous complaints we have received on the constant base raping I am leaving this rule in place for awhile to see how things go..

Jabomb9 12-17-2006 13:19
Seriously, people like the Insomnia servers because they don't have petty little rules like this. If they want them, go play on one of the thousands of other clan servers. But don't mess things up for everybody just because one person complained.

And where was this 'popular request'?

BFROE|IndianScout 12-17-2006 13:23
look, on Dalian and Wake from the hours spent admin'g the servers, people cant even get off the carrier, so this ruling will stay for while and we will see how it goes..

BFROE|Dacster 12-17-2006 14:47
I too have seen the requests on the servers on this subject. Lets give it a chance and see how things go.

-=]XSC[=-Mush 12-17-2006 20:50
(This is my post from the Insomnia foreums)

Insomnia Staff (KEVIN) has in the past made it clear that attacking uncap bases are fine. (If the players don't like to get killed, spawn at another base was his comment) Now I have only played on the insomnia server over 2000 time and have never heard any of those that play on a reguler basis ***** about that rule. So who are these "Players" that complain about the rule and is it BFROE policy to now change any rule that is aganist what Insomnia had posted in the past based on these mystery players?

Update:
After talking to some of the BFROE members it sounds like this rule was from Wake complianers. If so, is that a little heavy handed to apply the rule to all servers?

Agressor 12-17-2006 21:04
I am for this on the Wake server atleast...

It's the only reason I don't play USMC alot. It's so demoralizing and unfair that the 2 J-10s just buzz around and count the spawn time for the vehicles and blow everything up. I don't mind the island raping though, infact if i'm the Chinese I just attack the island out of courtesy to let people get off the carrier.

Please, instate kicks to continuous base rapers. No bans though, that's too harsh.

Jabomb9 12-17-2006 23:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFROE|IndianScout (Post 12843)
look, on Dalian and Wake from the hours spent admin'g the servers, people cant even get off the carrier, so this ruling will stay for while and we will see how it goes..

THEN DO IT ON THOSE SERVERS!

It isn't that hard. Just post the rule at the pre-load screen.

BFROE|IndianScout 12-17-2006 23:16
I've set this rule to all servers for now, BFROE have full access and control of these servers per insomnia and Kevin and have had a great response so far..

Indian

p3lvic 12-17-2006 23:16
I've STATED MY OPINION


like I said WATCH AS ALL INSOMNIA365 SERVERS GO EMPTY, atleast the ones with all this gayness

BFROE|IndianScout 12-17-2006 23:29
# BattleField 2 Server Name Players IP Port Map Game GRank
1 24/7 Sharqi - Insomnia365 [ 63/64 ] 69.41.232.171 16567 sharqi peninsula 6
2 24/7 Wake 64 - Insomnia365 [ 63/64 ] 74.52.36.34 16567 wake island 2007 16
3 24/7 Karkand - Insomnia365 [ 49/52 ] 69.41.232.170 16567 strike at karkand 281
4 24/7 Mashtuur - Insomnia365 [ 45/52 ] 69.41.232.172 16567 mashtuur city 91
5 24/7 Dalian 64 - Insomnia365 [ 33/64 ] 74.52.36.34 16568 dalian plant 107


the servers look pretty full to me, even with the rules change..

Macstar55 12-17-2006 23:36
Please don't do this it will ruin the insomnia servers.

This is all I will stay.

Macstar55

Jello.01 12-17-2006 23:42
Seriously, the whole reason I have played on Insomnia servers was because of the lack of rules, I also found my clan there, and met some awesome friends over since we're all regulars. Most of us just want you to weed out the hackers and glitchers, we never wanted a language filter, or rules that we can find on noobish clan servers. Just do what BFROE does best, getting rid of padders, hackers, and glitchers, not turning Insomnia servers into the Whinersville.

Jello.01

BFROE|IndianScout 12-18-2006 00:04
no spawn camping rule has been removed from Sharqi only

swat 12-18-2006 00:29
well imo this is a fair/unfair decision it has its good and bad reasons on wake island chinese always win because of the j10 always baserape carrier and barely any chance of winning however. Making rules of no baserape of uncaps is making it unrealistic. in the real world ppl wudnt say dont attack there uncap its unfair. if i see no baserape servers i wouldnt play on them kind of servers. baserape is not only a challenge its fun for points. Insomnia servers give fun quality sumtimes lag free and friendly players and now some excellent admins who are running the servers smoothly and keeping tabs on exploiters which a few month ago they wouldn't be here and hackers would run all over unfortuanently. however i lose my patience running and getting shot straight away but i can't speak because i baserape very bad. previousily i get shot, moments later id be straight back down to where they spawn and kill them. since i like Sharqi peninsula because of excellent flying of multiple players Macstar jello winters jabomb :) these guys are fantastic players who get me tuns of points so when i hear that no baserape is now on it dissapoints me but the decision is up to BFROE but. the complaints normally come from unskilled players who cannot play with quality so one way or another there going to stop people from baserape. artillery continually falling on uncap bases. maybe these rules should be set specifically to certaint maps. Wake island Dalian Plant the ones that leave major baserape, Sharqi peninsula is moderatelly small. it is unfair on Gulf of oman and its unfair on wake island but certain maps are fun and if maps are put under Strict rules then it becomes unfair cos ppl are under pressure to abide by the rules.

p3lvic 12-18-2006 06:50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFROE|IndianScout (Post 12892)
# BattleField 2 Server Name Players IP Port Map Game GRank
1 24/7 Sharqi - Insomnia365 [ 63/64 ] 69.41.232.171 16567 sharqi peninsula 6
2 24/7 Wake 64 - Insomnia365 [ 63/64 ] 74.52.36.34 16567 wake island 2007 16
3 24/7 Karkand - Insomnia365 [ 49/52 ] 69.41.232.170 16567 strike at karkand 281
4 24/7 Mashtuur - Insomnia365 [ 45/52 ] 69.41.232.172 16567 mashtuur city 91
5 24/7 Dalian 64 - Insomnia365 [ 33/64 ] 74.52.36.34 16568 dalian plant 107


the servers look pretty full to me, even with the rules change..

yeah no one really knows of this rule yet, give it a few more days scoutyboy, patience young padawan learner

OneTinSoldier 12-18-2006 07:18
Hi Guys,

Concerning Wake Island...

I just want to say that I'm not real sure how much this rule does when it comes to stoppping the baserape/arty of the carrier and/or allow the USMC more of a chance to get onto the Island. This is my understanding of the rule as explained to me on Teamspeak...


The Chinese MAY Baserape and Arty the carrier until the USMC has a flag. Once the USMC gets a flag then the baserape(pronlonged attacks anyway) and arty of the carrier is to cease.


Although the rule is somewhat helpful as some J-10 drivers would continue to rape the carrier after the USMC has a flag, most really start to go rape the newly acquired USMC flag. And although some China Commanders might continue to arty the carrier after USMC has a flag, which might actually cause USMC guys killed by it on the carrier to spawn at the new flag instead, I believe most start to arty the newly acquired USMC flag instead.

Therefore, I don't really see a whole lot of change taking place with this rule, and I dont think it'd be too hard to enforce. If however, the rule were that China may not rape and attack the carrier until USMC has a flag, then I think there'd have to be an admin on all the time to enforce such a rule.


As someone who plays on Insomnia Wake 64 all the time I can't really say I have a feeling one way or the other about this rule, seeing as how I don't believe it really changes things much at all.

The way I see it, the USMC just needs... a good Blackhawk pilot, and perhaps good USS Essex gunners. How well the USMC does really depends quite a bit on how well the first(especially) and second Blackhawks off the ship fair in their flight, and it seems to me that some Blackhawk pilots really don't have a clue when it comes to the fact that there is a little strategy and skill involved in making it to a flag on the Island. There are two good strategies that I use, and I'm sure there are more. I gain a fair amount of altitude and go around to the outside heading for either South or North Base, NOT North Village or the Airfield, those are usually too well protected. If the situations seems/feels a little more desperate or there is a visual sighting of a tank at South Base then I head for the Landing Beach. The other strategy is to go fairly high and directly over the south peninsula land towards the South Base. This makes it so that even if the vehicles on the peninsula see you, they have trouble pointing their guns up high enough to be able to shoot you very much, if at all. And one plus for this strategy is that guys can bail out and be on land instead of out in the water if bailing becomes a necessity. An engineer on the Blackhawk to repair it in-flight is always a plus. If J-10's or the Z-10 start attacking me then I jink(evasive maneurvering) with nose pointed steeply downwards to greatly increase speed, and 8 or 9 times out of 10 I can make it to a flag and we get the flag early in the game with the point score pretty close to even. Another strategy might be to go really high... I think it's 300 in altitude or higher and you are out of sight to people and AA guns that are on land? Most crews are too impatient for that though and want you to get going.

Because I feel I'm pretty good at it I used to grab the Blackhawk at the beginning of the round all the time. But lately, just for fun and a change, I have been trying out being a squad leader and getting in a boat on the little USMC island and heading straight for the north peninsula land. Sometimes me and my squad make it all the way to North Village and manage to white out or take the flag. But China puts up a pretty tough fight there! The Z-10 will show up sometimes and pound us. A lot of time we don't make it, but I hope our clearing of the end of the penisula either takes off some pressure from the little island and allows more boats to get off of there and come join us or provides enough of a distraction to allow the guys to take a flag on the South end.

Mostly what it comes down to though, in order to stop the raping of the carrier is getting a flag, which requires a Blackhawk pilot with enough of a clue on the path to take and how to jink J-10's. J-10 rammers can be pretty tough to avoid though, and I hate them. But it doesn't seem to me that rammers are as common as they used to be. They have been given a hard time about how lame they are and I think over time ramming the Blackhawk has made it so you will be marked as lame, very lame. The once or twice I get shot down(usually no engineer on board to help) then I have to hand it to the J-10 pilot's skill. Anyway, just learn to use some tatics and skill with the Blackhawk when you're on USMC on Wake Island and you will get a flag! :)

Cheers,

OneTinSoldier

swat 12-18-2006 10:52
well, you have f35zekerssneakers who owns everyone in f35. and you have wooly elephant who is fantastic in air defence. on multiple occasions ive tried attackin ive blew up the essex with wooly inside but he made my jet uunuseable as you said you can't see the good or bad points but most of the time im guessing your on US so you would be pleased but chinese who or on the server will be disapointed!

BFROE|Syntax2112 12-18-2006 11:07
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jello.01 (Post 12894)
Seriously, the whole reason I have played on Insomnia servers was because of the lack of rules
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jello.01 (Post 12894)
, I also found my clan there, and met some awesome friends over since we're all regulars. Most of us just want you to weed out the hackers and glitchers, we never wanted a language filter, or rules that we can find on noobish clan servers. Just do what BFROE does best, getting rid of padders, hackers, and glitchers, not turning Insomnia servers into the Whinersville.

Jello.01

Think about what you just said !! Are you saying that the only reason you play these servers is because there are no, or lack of, rules ? So in a nut shell,,you don't like following the rules ?

Seabiscuit 12-18-2006 12:20
Plz

I think this needs to be thought through a litte more. Plz have polls initiated to which maps this should be activated on. Im all for that on large maps like wake island and ones with ships like dalian plant. but maps like sharqi and several others have enough other spawns to where that rule should not be enforced. I think this should be up to the people playing on them as you are not paying for these servers either. At least let the people who play on them decide which maps to enforce these rules on.

Hey i just saw that you did lift the no rape on sharqi...thx guys...i am sorry to vent so much..but sometimes i think you are listening to the few newer guys that don't know how to play the map and immediately go and complain. I think you need to ask everyone cause the regulars don't get on teamspeak and other things on a regular basis cause we like the gameplay the way it is and there is no need to change it. Me and many others tire of going to all these private clan servers with their petty "rules" that degrade the quality of gameplay for more skilled players. I understand some rules are necessary and am fully willing to comply if they are helpful and well thought out. Not allowing base raping on some maps greatly hurts that teams chances of winning in some maps cause certain teams are given a huge advantage to begin with. We do what we have to to win...that is all. I don't rape the beach house cause im an azz or just want to spawn kill. Is it fun yes...but the most important thing is it keeps that mi28 off my teammates back, and we can use our tv missles to take out uav and scan while we are there. We can keep their air down allowing our teammates to defend flags without getting raped. That havoc is devastating in sharqi. It can easily win the game if allowed to. Im just saving that it is the most viable option for a victory for the us side in that game. The mec has two other bases across the map to spawn. If they know we are at beach raping..they can bring a tank or jeeps back to shoot us down, or go take the tv, thus depleting us of repairs and ammo. There are many options to avoid this, but so many don't take enough initiative to overcome this and run to you nad complain. This is not fair, considering the first thing they try to do is fly straight to the tv and rape it the entire game. Just cause mecs chopper base is an uncap is an unfair advantage to mec if you enstate this rule. I thank you for removing the uncap ban on sharqi..as it was entirely unfair.

ZekersSneakers 12-18-2006 12:28
Quote:
Originally Posted by BFROE|Syntax2112 (Post 12941)
[color="Red"]

Think about what you just said !! Are you saying that the only reason you play these servers is because there are no, or lack of, rules ? So in a nut shell,,you don't like following the rules ?

I think he means the clan type rules, no attacking this or that etc...

BFROE|IndianScout 12-18-2006 12:36
ok gentlemen

after a chat with Kevin and some of the other regulars on the insomnia servers as well as DICE and some of our other admins..

the base raping rule has been removed for all insomnia servers..

we were allowed to keep it set this way, but I decided to remove it across the board..

see we actually do listen..

Indian

BFROE|Webs961 12-18-2006 12:41
Regardless of what you may think, you do have some allies on the inside . We do keep an eye on the overall gameplay, and if there's a problem, we request it to be fixed. I for one know that I did personally request that the no raping the uncap rule be removed from Sharqi on the grounds that it completely unbalances the map. Sometimes, things take a little bit of time. But, as you can see, we really do listen.

Seabiscuit 12-18-2006 13:09
thx guys

I know you guys are trying..and i thank you for it. The reason most of us play in these maps is not the lack of rules...its the lack of petty rules made by kids 10 years old using their rich daddies money to purchase a server and enstate rules that allow them to actually do good. But rules in war for the most part is going to be unfair one way or another. I think the best thing to do is ask the people and let them voice their opinions so u know what they want as a majority.

RocketChild 12-18-2006 13:33
I am glad to see you pull this rule off of Sharqi. I agree with Seabiscuit, whom speaks correctly about the tactics on that map and others. I mostly play MEC on that map (prefer the AK). But I have found that while playing the USMC, the best way to win Sharqi is to keep two jeeps at the Hotel cutting down boats and the Havoc as it comes across the water, Keep the TV station so the US has a helo to balance the ticket kills of the Havoc, and finally complete disruption of the MEC uncaps. It will never be a lopsided win like the MEC feels regularly, but it will end the round with a US victory at a nail-biting close call.

Thanks for pulling it there. Wake is definitely one map though that could use an no rape rule.

Again thanks for repealing this one.

Edit: I should add though, I often play at UTAC, and I love their rule about no attacking of the uncap. I have argued up and down on their side at TBF2 for their enforcement of the rules they have created to keep the game fun and going.

AnotherEd 12-18-2006 15:05
I am completely against any of these type of anti-base raping rules. For at least the following reasons:

1 - Where exactly does the "uncap" start and stop?
This is way too open to interpretation. Obviously some areas are crystal clear (a spawn point), most others are very large grey areas though. Think about it, don't just get upset at me and say "Oh Ed, you are just being difficult, EVERYONE knows where the uncap is." Seriously, if rules are to be made, they need to be clear for all. Nothing worse than deciding to not engage someone you think is in an "uncap" and find out he has you in his crosshairs and kills you the very next second.

2 - What if you engage someone "outside the uncap" then they retreat back into the uncap?
They can run and hide if you are winning against them? I sure wish everytime someone was owning me I could just turn tail and hide safely. Also, what about if you get a vehicle smoking/burning and they end up driving back into the uncap only to die? Do you get blamed for that to?

3 - What if someone is attacking from inside their uncap?
Imagine a tank shooting out of an uncap, or even a static SAM site lighting up an attack heli. I can't believe it's not proper to return fire and neutralize them before they get the better of you.

4 - They got themselves into that situation.
Seriously, if a team ends up getting mopped up that much, just let the raping happen to end it sooner. Else it just drags on and gets ridiculously boring. On top of it the people you are trying to save from the base rape might not die as quickly/as often, but they will still end up dying the minute they cross that imaginary/subjective "line in the sand" that defines the uncap anyways. This has less of an argument on maps like Wake Island 2007 or The Iron Gator where a team starts out with only one uncap.

5 - Maps where sometimes one team doesn't have an uncap.
You can argue all you want that the team starts out with more points so it has that advantage. But my experience in game is that that doesn't matter. Uncaps ensure a non-all cap loss for your team. And teams without uncaps typically lose their most important point pretty quickly because it's so beneficial with all the resources, so it makes a prime target. Why should the singular attribute of uncap make it any more off limits for the other team. It still holds the resources, it's still a vital point to keep held down so the enemy can't use it effectively.

6 - Subjectivity
My experience with all these rules are for the most part the only time they are enforced is when it's an admin on the server on the receiving end of the raping and they are dealing with the situation out of spite. It's so rare to have anyone respond to a random gamer's in-game complaint about a raping. Why are such spiteful administrators allowed to run rampant under the ROE rulings?

7 - I learned this game getting raped. Now I do the raping.
It's a part of the game and I learned to deal with it and how to compensate for it. Why is it so unfair of me to think others can do the same?


I see you've removed the rules form the Insomnia servers, so I'm sure my argument is a day late and a dollar short. But this conversation does ring pertinent to current events. Can you clarify why this type of a rule is so acceptable under the current ROE?



.

[AnotherEd]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

holy crap you actually copied/pasted all that? lol.

and agreed, lame you had to have an acct to read it.

i hope IS/someone respondes intelligently to my complaints about such rules. those anti-base raping rules have bothered me for a long time. while i always try to comply with them, i always find them doing more harm than good usually.

[7man]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

BFROE|IndianScout 12-17-2006 12:33
Base Raping and Sustained Attacks

Due to popular request, I have set the all the insomnia BF2 servers to ..

NO BASERAPING or Extended Attacks on UNCAPS only after all flags are taken ! ! !

ROE basis for this ruling..

To be continued..

I'm to lazzy to read all that

[RocketChild]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

I'm to lazzy to read all that

You just had to quote everything that I put? :|:

holy crap you actually copied/pasted all that? lol.

and agreed, lame you had to have an acct to read it.

i hope IS/someone respondes intelligently to my complaints about such rules. those anti-base raping rules have bothered me for a long time. while i always try to comply with them, i always find them doing more harm than good usually.

He did respond, but it was still trivial.

I'm to lazzy to read all that

Thanks Scinto for editing his post!

[Scinto]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

I'm to lazzy to read all that

your an idiot,, we didnt have to know if you could be bothered to read it or not and i sure as hell didnt want to break the scroll wheel trying to see the bottom of the page, notice your post has been edited for that reason.

as for the no baseraping their is sometimes i like it and others i dont it just depends on my mood most of those conplainers are probably the ones who rape the uncaps

[[TNT]GRENADIER]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

The rule has it's place. We have a rule on Wake that no attacks by arty or jets on the carrier until US has one flag on the island. It's a pain to enforce but it works well. It allows US a shot to get moving and the only rape is of those whores waiting for jets. Any other maps we have have no rules about hitting uncaps.

Lets be honest, those that complain and say that they are keeping the enemy down are full of it. How many times have you seen jets raping an uncap when there is combat going on over flags on other parts of the map?.............All the time. The way this game is set up, and particularly Wake, you see the same high ranking players all of the time in the J-10's strafing the carrier and racking up points. Almost every game when the US has a flag, I can sit on the carrier and watch the J-10's continue to rape for the easy points. I've seen it many times go on while their airfield is being taken. people who repeatedly rape uncaps are not interested in winning or teamwork, they are interested in points.

We stared out with no such rule but it got so bad that people left. It's business sometimes guys. No one wants to pay for an empty server. If a rule keeps it populated its a good one. I'm speaking of our server and no one elses of course.

[AnotherEd]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

GRENADIER: I think I'm completely honest when I say raping is not just a points thing. It's a tactic. And there are counter tactics. If you don't know how to counter, you will get raped. Learn the counters.

Now that said, I specifically avoid Wake. I never spent enough time to learn any counters on that particular map. Maybe there are none? Maybe that map is the one specific example of where you are right and it does have it's place? In that case, I also want to commend your caveat to the rule of requiring one flag cap by the US first before such activities can commence. Still overly painful to adminster though. I can see way too much subjectivity in that still... How far off the carrier does a blackhawk have to get before the J-10 can take it down? 1 ft? 5 ft? 100 ft? Hard call when it comes down to it.

[redrider]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

I get the point being made here. Personally I dont care how it finally turns out as long as its the same for everyone. I have been on serevrs that were so one sided I couldnt kill anyone. I also have been on both sides of the stacked server deal too, its not fun at all.
I do agree some small changes need to be made in the areas mentioned and however it works out, Please keep it the same for everyone. I want the same thing in BF2 I always wanted. To kill or be killed because of my skill level not because of some other reason. Thanks. . . . . . . . .Red

[TMB]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

I used to play/admin on another server that was awesome like that, all out war, no gay rules, just no padding, hacking, glitching. Whiners started crying about getting baseraped, then they started making rules, the server turned from an awesome place that had some of the best pub players I had ever played with, to a horrible noob heaven. The whole time I was in there last time all that was going across teh screen on all sides was crying about "Whhhhhaaa soandso isn't waiting his turn for the plane" or "whhaaaaasoandso just bumbed the uncap, whhhaaaaa" ****in A, grow a pair, wash the sand out of your vagina and play the damn game.

[RocketChild]

Re: ROE: In-House Rules about Uncappable Bases

****in A, grow a pair, wash the sand out of your vagina and play the damn game.

Man, I am about to add you to my sig for that one!