Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

Guess what, I actually thought quite a bit about being wrong, and didn´t even stop there (like most people do), but tested all that stuff myself, resulting in the "proof of bullet drop" thread here on TotalBF2.
Even with 20X normal magnification there is no deviation to the left or right, as can be seen here:

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showpost.php?p=441652&postcount=5

So unless you have any proof of your claims please stop the craptalking.

Wow... Im no "sniper" in the sense of BF2, as I used to snipe a lot when I was a newbie, to get some experience in the field.

Heres one clue. I didnt talk about "deviation". I was talking about straight crooked difference between reticle markers and the actual center point.

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87355

I advise you to digest this thread throughly. Moron.

[Jemme101]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

I think you can do better than bringing in words like 'moron' in a thread Chris. You have ben around here long enough that slagging of like that will derail the thread needlessly (is that a word ).

I think SK and Chris are debating to different things here. I for one have put over a thousand hours in the Sniper Rifle & Kit and I can say for sure that both the M24sws and the L96A1 in BF2 are identical. And thats from experience.
From what I have read over the past year on this subject I havent found one single shred of evidence that would lead me to believe they are different.

If you want to be sure about this take a look in the gamefiles yourself or ask guys like SK who has done some heavy testing or the Black_Duck_1 who has developed the Weapons-Chart in this here forum.

[Verzili]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

Wow... Im no "sniper" in the sense of BF2, as I used to snipe a lot when I was a newbie, to get some experience in the field.

Heres one clue. I didnt talk about "deviation". I was talking about straight crooked difference between reticle markers and the actual center point.

http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87355

I advise you to digest this thread throughly. Moron.

hehe my thread got mentiond :)

i agree when it comes to "reticle markers and the actual center point"

as you have read my guide you would have noticed m24/l96a1 are dead centre,and svd(my new fav) can be deciving,but once you realise where centre is it helps.

back on topic,i dont mind the m24 i use it more on SF,but in bf2 i prefer the l96a1 ,

crosshair(thin)
reload(fast)
sound(not so reveling)

I think you can do better than bringing in words like 'moron' in a thread Chris. You have ben around here long enough that slagging of like that will derail the thread needlessly (is that a word ).

I think SK and Chris are debating to different things here. I for one have put over a thousand hours in the Sniper Rifle & Kit and I can say for sure that both the M24sws and the L96A1 in BF2 are identical. And thats from experience.
From what I have read over the past year on this subject I havent found one single shred of evidence that would lead me to believe they are different.

If you want to be sure about this take a look in the gamefiles yourself or ask guys like SK who has done some heavy testing or the Black_Duck_1 who has developed the Weapons-Chart in this here forum.

i agree with you Jemme101 that the 2 guns in q's are identical in damage and accuracy.

they look and sound differnt(but we know that :) )

the only differnce is the l96a1 has a advatage with a lower noise when fired(yes another obvious one)

and the reload times are faster for l96a1,but from experince i would always hold down zoom after a shot to check hit indicator) so that advatage would not been seen.

[SK]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

Heres one clue. I didnt talk about "deviation". I was talking about straight crooked difference between reticle markers and the actual center point.

I was talking about the same, you probably didn´t even look at the pictures I posted, right?

I advise you to digest this thread throughly. Moron.

Did so, also digested the thread maker´s comment here thoroughly, who says I´m right. As for the last part of your comment, I´ll leave that up for the other readers to decide.


@blade.verzilli TF:
Nice job with that thread, I like it when people actually test stuff and post it, instead of calling each other names when discussing something.

[Verzili]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

@blade.verzilli TF:
Nice job with that thread, I like it when people actually test stuff and post it, instead of calling each other names when discussing something.

thanks,was hoping for a sticky but atleast some ppl got some use out of it.

i agree with you when it comes to name calling ect,best left out imho.

i also read ur bullit drop thread,a while back nice read :)

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

I was talking about the same, you probably didn´t even look at the pictures I posted, right?

There were no pics in your post, or they were on a page I didnt look at. The argument started from a "claim" that the experience of a player who said he aimed "a little to the left and a little to above" was an incorrect wannabe statement. I defended that said statement because it is correct, M24 sights, as SVDs are off the mark. So his experience was true.

Did so, also digested the thread maker´s comment here thoroughly, who says I´m right. As for the last part of your comment, I´ll leave that up for the other readers to decide.

If you digest the pictures, the M24 sights are off the true central. If you set your game resolution to 800x600, the error becomes critical, just like for the SVD, which becomes not only shifted upwards, but also a little to the right.

And as for bolded part

So unless you have any proof of your claims please stop the craptalking.

Does this ring a bell? Hypocrit.

Calling names may be a bad thing, but disregarding a true statement with an insult and then b!tching about people using insults, is just hypocritical.

Blade, your thread is awesome, but I disagree with you on one thing- M24 sights. They are off the mark. There may be an issue, a difference in error level with different resolutions, but with fat sights, when the true center is in the edge of a line, that kind of error is critical.

As for bullet drop. Bullet drop exists. But just like everything in BF2 is wrong, you get extra drop while sniping downwards, and you get little to no drop if you snipe upwards (personal experience, not a fact).

[Dairuka]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

I gotta side with Jemme, blade.verzilli and SK on this one, since they are all saying the same thing. Not to mention that they've all proven themselves to be experts in their particular areas of knowledge.

As for the arguement against their claims? I really haven't seen any proof, nor have I experienced any similar issues regarding the M24. It's just as accurate as the L9A61, and it doesn't feel as if it shoots off of the scope's marker.

[74javelin]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

Idk about all of you... but with an L96A1 it seems anything over 50m I have to aim slightly high to compensate for bullet drop...

Anything like... 300m ... I have to aim like a head or two above them.

The M24 @ 50m I can aim straight at their head and kill them (no drop)... same with 100... and 200. Of course like 300 there is drop.. but to me it feels like the L96A1 has alot more bullet drop than the M24 and the M24's bullet seems to travel faster.

I probably am imagining it.. but even though the stats show them pretty much the same... there has to be something different cause I know i'm not crazy.

i feel the opposet. maybe it's the way we look threw the sights? on wake when you spawn on the island and snipe. i have to aim higher with the m24 to hit anyone. the m24 does have thicker crosshairs.

[Verzili]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

we could argue about it all day,but truth be told the m24/l96a1/m95 all are a tad (i mean a tad) to the right and down a bit,

the svd,and type 88 also suffer this same problem,but its worse for the semi-auto rifle's as they are off centre more.

just putting the sniper rifle's to one side a moment........

if you still think chris_redfield is wrong! then think again..

his argument is correct in the sense the rifle's are of true centre.

more so when it comes to support weapons,the worse case being the mg36.

an avarage player would natural go prone and aim in burst to hit there target,and use the tip of the iron sight when aiming?but due to the way the crosshair is made for this gun(mg36) u need to aim halfway down the ironsight crosshair(and again to the right) to hit.

many guns including pistols(mr444) suffer from this.
but when u except the fact that most guns are not dead centre(sniperrifle's included) you can adjust accordingly.

back to sniping............

like chris mentiond differnt res'es perform the need for adjustment,higher res would make it harder to see,but its still there.

just going back to the svd type crosshair the ^ shape that you aim with is similar to the mec tank/apc and belive it or not they are also off to the right :)

but i have not gone in to it in detail like i did with the guns(sorry:) i may start it again when i get time)

i would say with the m24/l96 up to 150 headshots are good if you use centre of crosshair,but at 250 upwards i personaly add a tad to the right when aiming,

also when hiting target from right to left of my crosshair i usualy lead from the left so that the small adjustment (due to crosshair) compensates it self a bit.

i hope that clears any misunderstanding,and ya'll be nice :)

p.s chris_redfield i noticed in a few post's up i said m24 was dead centre but when i checked at a lower res you can see a noticeable differnce,i didnt edit my post as im not ashamed to be wrong :)

side note the m24 pic in my post was gave to me by a prmm player and i beleve the res was 1280x1024 or even 1600x1200,but a quick check on 800x600 conferms youre statment to be true.

[Dairuka]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

So you're saying that the L9A61, and the M24 are the same, in that they both suffer from the same off center problem? One that in my mind doesn't change the feel of the guns in any way, shape or form possible?

Gee. I thought thats what the arguement was about. Chris may be right about the off center markers, but if the L9A61 and the M24 both suffer from it, then how is the M24 any different?

I thought thats what this arguement was about, the off center markers is just a byproduct of the main arguement.

[Jemme101]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

As for bullet drop. Bullet drop exists. But just like everything in BF2 is wrong, you get extra drop while sniping downwards, and you get little to no drop if you snipe upwards (personal experience, not a fact).

Offcourse bulletdrop exists. It was confirmed by DICE 11 months ago in an interview.
To correct you on this quote however. You dont get EXTRA bulletdrop when aiming higher or lower. You need to compensate for not being in a level field of firing, which is something different.

I cannt give exact data on how you have to compensate for being higher or lower than your target. I have mastered that through experience ingame. The downside of having played the game for so long is that I have fixed positions so its hard to tell how much I compensate of hand. I will try to keep track from now on and see if I can collect data on it. Or maybe I will spend some time doing the math later on. Should be fun :)

The same goes for the recticle being off-center or not. I honestly cannt say it either way because I have played for so long now it has become second nature to compensate accordingly. It doesnt effect my aim and my new account Jemme.sws reflects that I think :)

EDIT: Btw I play 800x600 in BF2 because my TFT screen died and I am on my old CRT atm.

[Verzili]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

hmm,sounds good jemme101.

i would be intrested in reading the data that you collect.

i have read bullitdrop threads to death now,this one sounds more intersting.

like you i have played to long to say how mutch to aim higher/lower when hitting targets from various height's,

but non the less i would still be interested in some data :)

keep up the good work :)

[Solodon]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

Please, any game that allows unlimited .1 second medic rezzes, shouldnt even be concerned with bullet drop.........

Let that be for the thinking mans games.......

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

Dairuka, when you play the game at 800X600, the true central cross is on the inside part of the crosshair, on the down-right side of the cross. The error level on the L96 is lesser.

This error doesnt really affect people when the targets head covers the crosshairs. But at longer ranges, when you barely see the head through the crosshairs, the adjustment needs to be made.

For SVD, the error is at a critical level, which is why a lot of people say the rifle is bad, especially for longer ranges.

Moving forward, almost all weapons suffer from the error in unzoomed crosshair true center error as the true center is to the right. And some weapons, such as MG36 and G36K iron sights are ridiculously off the mark. Theres also an issue for the M16.

If you want to check it out for yourself, PM me and Ill give you the link for a program that draws a crosshair to your screen so you can check it out for yourself. Dont use it on online servers though, as PB registers it as a gamehack, and youll get kicked for 2 minutes.

Offcourse bulletdrop exists. It was confirmed by DICE 11 months ago in an interview.
To correct you on this quote however. You dont get EXTRA bulletdrop when aiming higher or lower. You need to compensate for not being in a level field of firing, which is something different.

Maybe so. I just had a testing session on bullet drop and it left such an impression, that bullet drop is severe when aiming downwards.

[SK]

Re: Hmm, strange, M24 better then L96A1?

There were no pics in your post, or they were on a page I didnt look at.

Guess so. Here:

Magnification 20X normal magnification of M24, the tracer round is visible and centered.

The argument started from a "claim" that the experience of a player who said he aimed "a little to the left and a little to above" was an incorrect wannabe statement. I defended that said statement because it is correct, M24 sights, as SVDs are off the mark. So his experience was true.

Actually I said I find it funny how many people see things that aren´t there, like the poster in question saying that the M24 has different bullet drop than the L96A1. This experience is false, which can be demonstrated by looking into the gamefiles.

If you digest the pictures, the M24 sights are off the true central. If you set your game resolution to 800x600, the error becomes critical, just like for the SVD, which becomes not only shifted upwards, but also a little to the right.

Which pictures? In Blade´s Thread they seem to fit pretty much perfectly (Which obviously is not true for all guns, especially the pistols).

Does this ring a bell? Hypocrit.

Well you stated "So in this case, the guys experience was spot on, and you just made a joke out of yourself." without delivering any proof. So I requested you deliver either proof or stop this kind of aggressive reaction (which qualifies as craptalking IMHO).
Afterwards, you decided to call me Moron, although the thread you linked doesn´t support what you´ve been saying. Discussing a bit less hot-headed is an option too, you know?
I got no problems with acknowledging that a very minor offset exists, I´ve not seen it proven for any relevant resolutions though ( >= 1024 X 768 ).

As for bullet drop. Bullet drop exists. But just like everything in BF2 is wrong, you get extra drop while sniping downwards, and you get little to no drop if you snipe upwards (personal experience, not a fact).

It´s a pretty good bet from my experimenting that bullet drop is calculated by using s = 0.5 * G * t^2 on the Z-axis of the bullet. This means that the flight time of the bullet is the factor that determines the drop. If you fire up or down, the bullet will travel for a longer time to reach the target at a given distance and thus will drop more.