Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

[shiftymoves]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Lot of work. A shining example of a dogfighter I'd say.
MoTTo: In the beginning. You become the enemy you defeat, in the end...

Thank You

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Couldnt agree with you more, I live in Eastern Europe and I have absolutely no hesitation whenI choose a high ping US server over a low ping EU one. Americans, they have a lot of immature imbecils, but also the best group of gamers aswell.

The coolthing about non-american imbecils is that they usually dont talk, or the stuff they do say, I cant understand and it just gets ignored.

All the europeans get around 80-110 ping, which is very good for being a US server imo.. I get like a 40-70 ping.



About 40% of BF2C is from a different country than the U.S.

[||3rb||MOBB]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

I just wanted to add something that i try to do when ever the opportunity presents itself. Steal the enemy jet!!! It is the most decisive way to achieve air supperiority and increase your odds of survival since there is one less jet to shoot you down.

If you are in an f35 and hes in a j10 and you shoot him down, try to steal his jet. By doing this you just cut their airpower in half and increased your by 50 percent since you now have and extra jet. an additional perk to this is people will wait for the jet that never spawns taking at least a couple of people out of the fight on the enemy side.

If you get shot down 4 or 5 times but you kill him once and steal his jet, which is more decisive? I cant think of a worse feeling than watching someone take off in your jet, then turning around and bombing you with it.

I like to get with a wingman and coordinate a theft of both air assets early on. By doing this you make it to where the attack helos on your team have a free hand, and can do what they are meant to do, kill armor and infantry. IF you have both jets there should not be helos posing a threat anywhere. You know when your terrorizing helos properly when you lock them up and all you see is bodies bailing out.

The biggest tacttic I think I can recommend for flying is THINK, pre-think what you are going to do, think about what you are doing and think about what you did....right and wrong and here comes the important part adjust accordingly to ever changing conditions.

I've seen guys hit airfields preventing jets from taking off while their attack helo cleans house, I dont call the guy a spawn raper or a hacker, but rather I see a guy with an agenda to keep our airpower supressed. If you dont like getting spawn raped then:

1. dont get pushed into one base to spawn at, if you do... you deserve your fate.

2. learn how to use ground aa... you dont have to use the ground aa on the airfield, you can use one near by to bite that jet in the *** forcing him to repair long enough for you guys to get a jet up... it wont be you flying but thats just how things work out sometimes.

I've had some pretty good wingmen lately one of them being pimphell, good job last night bro, coordinating with a wingman makes life alot harder for the enemy, if you see a target but are engaged you can inform the other jet of a target and watch it get lit up, or if you hit a jet but run out of missles for some reason you can have him take over while you rearm... there a ton of things you can do better with a wingman.

I like the fact you didnt put a ton of tips in this original post, instead you emphazised the importance of adaptabitlity and flexibility and learning from your success and mistakes...QUICKLY!!!

awsome post.

[Coconut187]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Good job Chris


Btw, you should have added that the demo version is a way better way to dogfight because it takes more skill than 1.4.

You actually have to center yourself to the plane and get a good lock to down the plane

[deviousbf2]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Dogfighting in Battlefield 2
A general guide to the mind of a dogfighter and to the phylosophy of improvement.

Introduction - Author and purpose

Ive been flying jets in BF2 roughly since June 2005 when the Demo came out, starting out with a mouse and keyboard combo, then moving to keyboard only and finally taking the joystick option, which has proven to be the best because it hasnt restricted my improvement in maneuvering abilities. Ive flown through most patches, with exceptions being the newly out 1.4, and 1.12. Im not nearly the best but my curiosity has given me a lot in return and to this date I can count less than 20 BF2 pilots who have been simply better than me. That doesnt mean much other than stating I am an above average pilot. Dogfighting for me is a great gameplay niche with a great source of an adrenaline rush and immersion.
I wrote all of this up to create an image of dogfighting in BF2 being more than a simple and easy arcadeish mockery of air power. I tried to not to make this into an educational work, as learning is still a process spanning though experience. More than anything I wrote this for pilots like me to have an interesting read. Its also a window into the head of a player enjoying one specific aspect of the game with a few pointers for better or faster improvement.
I think it's important to note that my beliefs and opinions have changed over the time. For example I once believed that MiG and JSF were equal, but after just a few focused games on MiG I've come to a conclusion that MiG is vastly superior. The technique I use has always been changing, and I may read this same text a few months down the road and disagree with most of what I wrote up here.
Im sure that anyone confident in their field of expertiese can write up something similar and even better. So have a good read.

Table of contents

1. Introduction- Dogfighting
2. Improvement of a pilot in BF2
2.1 Famous tricks in BF2 dogfighting
3. Battlefield 2 pilots
4. Tracking
4.1 Agressive tracking
4.2 Stealthy tracking
4.3 Strategical tracking
5. Knowing your plane
5.1 Plane comparision chart
5.2 Smart *insert plane here* pilot
5.3 The most interesting dogfight combinations
6. Missiles - Understanding the missiles and application of knowledge in combat
7. Cannon - Understanding the cannon and application of knowledge in combat
8. Emotions in gameplay
9. Conclusion

1. Introduction - Dogfighting

In simple terms, dogfighting is 'air to air' combat (ATA). Dogfighting in BF2 shouldnt be compared to real life ATA nor ATA simulations. BF2 gameplay is not only arcadeish but very simplistic and linear. The task however isnt much simplier. Its still a 'player vs player' environment where more often than not the better player has more chances of winning than the worse player. This of course disregards the sinful inbalances in planes, but only for those who cant get their attention and mind off 'mirror balance'.
Fact is, BF2 offers jets for various situations and expecting a F-35B multipurpose fighter to perform aswell as a MiG-29 pure dogfighter in air, will just annoy you. So, even though a better pilot prevails (in most situations), the fact remains- vehicle limits the pilot, its capabilities can and often do dictate the way the dogfight is held and to some extent it pre-determines the outcome of the fight. This is where many, many pilots in BF2 will be extremely annoyed and disappointed. They play one map (Wake) over and over again and develop an opinion that jets in BF2 are all extremely inbalanced and totally screwed up. Yes, one plane is better than other. No, planes are not 100% mirrorbalanced, and they shouldnt be. And while blaming the jet for their loss is the best way to have a fun game with no emotional stress, its also the fastest way to quit personal improvement. The best dogfighter is a progressive one, and BF2 offers a lot to a progressive player.
In some ways DICE got it right with with pre-1.2 patches and the original game. If a weapon possesses a homing capability, its use or opportunities of use should be severely limited. DICE created a compromise between a homing weapon and player based system where the opportunities of missile use were limited and relied on players experience. And even though right now missiles (diregarding missile inbalances) track with high capability of hitting the target, the game has still remained its player vs player environment. And even though right now, the first opportunity can be rewarding, theres still a lot to enjoy. A sniper vs sniper battle on land is just as exciting as a pilot vs pilot fight in air, and if lets say bolt action rifles were changed to one shot kill weapons, the fun would still remain. The main task, outplaying your opponent still remains. And a good dogfighter more often than not outplays a worse pilot.

2. Improvement of a pilot in BF2

Again, comparisions between land player and an air player can be drawn. It happens in stages, each stage represents an event of aqcuiring new knowledge or mastering a new trick and the stage closes with integrating the new methods seamlessly into your regular gameplay. For example- reloading after each conflict, smokepop in a tankfight, application of distance in sniping, bombing HUD switch to missile HUD and spam and so on. Sometimes this can be a hardware upgrade (very often witnessed in land gameplay), for example switching to joystick from an alternative control method. For me, it went somehow like this:

* adjustment to controls
* switching to a joystick
* sneaking behind a target and using machine guns, dumbfiring missiles
* changing graphical settings so that I could view contrails
* learning correct missile shot opportunities on opponents (pre 1.2)
* 'decoding' opponents evasion pattern in less than 5 engagements
* learning and mastering rear view
* learning and mastering fly by view

When I first started flying and up to January 2006, I didint know nor did search websites for BF2 tips an tricks so everything I learned I learned on my own. This gave me enough time to figure out different techniques and improve on my own. The catalyst to learn new methods has always been the same - loss to a better player, or loss to a player in a different jet.
Many players dont strive to improvement because they eagerly blame the better jet for their loss, they play against a weak plane as much as possible and even though they become good and better, they are no challenge if they are put into a worse plane.
Ive seen this over and over again. J10/MiG-29 pilots who refuse to fly th F-35B can not create the same success if put in the worse jet while the players who fly inferior jets as much as possible try to use a lot more thinking, analyzing and they try to squeeze everything theyve got from their jet. Some of them go further than just that and master maneuvers and methods that can be called 'exploits'. Most notable is the 4000+ KPH run of the F-35B. Basically, the first step to improvement is to accept that you as a player arent that good that you can blame the jet for all of your failures. The only player who shouldnt improve is the perfect player and its common sense that none of you is perfect. And while a J-10 will always outfly the F-35B if the pilots are both comparable, youll find that the pilot who puts more pressure on self- improvement may overcome the jet inbalances. For J-10 this can be such a simple thing as making the kill with the first window of opportunity.
The improvement in details lies in the ability to create that window of opportunity and correct weapon use methods to make that successful blow. For example, the method to overcome the J-10 missile deflection is to find a way to land the missile into J-10s broaside so it impacts with the hitbox at 90 degrees. Basically, improvement of a more serious dogfighter in BF2 is like evolution triggered mostly by the necessity for improvement after being bested by a better player. ATA looks almost always like a competition because its mostly a 1 on 1 environment.
Finally, check BF2 forums for valuable information, they are literally filled with unlimited hints, tips, explanations and guides. No matter how good you are or how much youve discovered all by yourself, theres always use to knowing how other players operate, and theres always bits and pieces that you havent found yourself.

2.1 Famous tricks in BF2 dogfighting

Throughout BF2 pilots have tried to adapt to certain lacks or anomalies in gameplay. Anyone mature enough reading the forums will have a laugh at non-pilots talking about pilots struggling to addapt. Fact is, since the very first patch, there have been changes in gameplay mostly taking jets down. This has brought the need to create new methods.

*Dumbfiring the missiles - I think this was the first new trick. Pilots saw very soon that missiles did not have a 100% impact rate and created a new approach, they came from behind the target with the bombing HUD equipped and as soon as they closed the distance, they switched to missile HUD and dumbfired as many missiles as possible. Coupled with machine gun fire the target suffered extreme damage or was killed

*Rear chase view - As a countermeasure to this move and as a tool to learn how to bomb, more and more pilots started using the rear view camera mode

*Stratorun - Im willing to bet that this was a discovery of a mistake. The higher the jet is, the faster it will go, but above 800 feet, the speed boost becomes enourmous with JSF getting a massive 4000+ KPH maximum speed

*Fly-by view - The most useful tool for an experienced dogfighter, this allows a pilot to overcome the visual loss of a target

3. Battlefield 2 pilots

Segmenting different BF2 pilots is easier than it seems. In very rough terms theres 2 main groups. Point driven and personal achievement driven, where the first group flies for points and the other group flies for some set up goals such as 'being the best'. The influence of ego is obvious, because air aspect offers perfect ground for a good old 'cockfight' where skills that clash have a name. On the ground, along with other 60 players its hard to take a death personally so many times better players arent noticed (not generally, but for you personally), in air you can instantly tell what type of player are you dealing with, and very often identifying the type of player can tell you the right strategy to use against specific type of player.
Im willing to bet that the pointhunters get a lot more attention (often negative) than the other kind so all pilots get branded by the face of those players. Its a little unfair, but that group does represent the pilot kind in BF2, which is sad. Just visit any BF2 forums, look up a topic about jets and youll find the phrase 'planewhores', 'whores', '*******' or similar on the very first page.
Then again, for a good pilot visiting the same forums, its rather humorous to see that good pilots are mentioned rarely or actually never. In game, the words 'thank you' are used to reply to players who drop you a medpack, ammo pack, or who wrenches a little. The player who saves another player in combat will almost never get thanked. Im using the word 'almost' to give people the benefit of the doubt, because I personally do not remember being thanked for saving my teammates from an incoming armor or something similar. So what kind of players there really are in the air?

* the 'novice' - these pilots have just started flying and they also focus on uncaps. They are actually a subkind to pointwhores. They dont know what to do, how to perform their role and simply lack experience. They dont know how to bomb so they are forced to drop on uncaps to have a few lucky kills. Their engagement methods are limited to spamming all 6 missiles at the locked on target and then flying towards the uncap to drop the load. Experience will mold another kind of player of those.

* the 'pointwhore' - pretty straightforward, this player only attacks the areas that bring in the biggest score, usually in one blow. Youll see this type of player attacking uncaps over and over again usually ignoring other flags. This type of players biggest dogfight move is following the target for one turn. They usually focus on two flags, OPFOR uncap and his uncap. They were the first kind to master the use of machine gun use on ground targets. When engaged they are usually an easy prey, they always try to score that extra few points before getting killed and dogfighting with them isnt that challenging, simply because they dont give a damn whether they die or not. The better this pilot gets, the more they develop in other areas, but more often than not they simply neutralize their lacks with flying only the best planes. They dont look for ATA challenge, however they do take a jet which offers as much advantages as possible so they wont get taken down. Majority of this kind of players represent the pilots of BF2. Every player has their own personality and style of course, but generally the way they play is obvious.

* the 'bomber' - this is the player every groundpounder would want on their team. The bomber focuses on effective 'air to surface' (ATS), hes a step forward from 'novice', an overall more experienced pilot who prefers to engage ground targets. The difference between him and pointwhore is that the bomber does not recognize uncaps as the only kind of target. They actually show that tunnel vision isnt equipped in their arsenal and they attack targets that are better for either him or the team. Their experience also gives them the ability and confidence to engage targets in ATA combat although more often than not they simply engage the targets of opportunity and disengage as soon as they figure out that its a useless pursuit.

* the 'maverick' - this kind is the opposite of the bomber. Air targets come as a priority at almost all situations. This is the dogfighter kind of player who takes a dogfight as a small personal competition where winning or losing a dogfight costs more than the result in score in the end of the round. Good enugh to deliver an impact in ATS fighting, they are often ignored by the public because they arent as irritating as pointwhores. Its quite saddening though, that even though they keep the skies clean, they arent appreciated. Labeled by "PlaneWhore" as useless players, their impact on the gameplay comes from a different area. They deny the OPFOR proper air support thus giving their teammates a better ground for armor use.

* the 'overall player' - there is no such kind. Every player has a tendency to focus on something, some specific task. Points, ATA, ATS are the 3 most obvious targets of interest.

These are the general types of BF2 pilots you may encounter on the field. Of course everyone has their own individuality, but they can all be segmented into one of these groups. Not by the results, but by their attitude and focus. Theres a very general kind - 'smacktard' kind, which comes from the persons own personality and not their gameplay.

4. Tracking

Tracking - following a target. Tracking in BF2 is totally different from what would be expected from a dogfight, in comparision to real life. Jets mass have no influence on their turning capabilities and there is no 'drifting'. Mass only influences acceleration, deceleration. Slightly, maybe even response speed. There is no gravitation and instead, theres 'floater mod' which I believe determines how well a jet 'floats' in air. Basically, air for jets is the same as water for subs, with no aerodynamical effects and no other physical influence other than a less dense environment than water or ground for the jets to travel in. So a pilot does not use aerodynamical or physical properties of the world for his favour, and often neglects the jets capabilities which leads to the most common mistake pilots in BF2 do - they fly all jets as if they were the same. Theres also no blackout, no G- force effects so a pilot can do endless circles. This alone eliminates the usefulness of yo- yo maneuvers suggested by many pilots who like to draw parallels with real world. Fact is, yo- yo is more often than not useless because in BF2 dogfights, pilots use multiple loops and turns. Instead, we can use comparision with another real world object - the rollercoaster. Quite simply, imagine tracks built on each other, with one set of tracks having smaller turn diameters than others. Then again, some jets have more 'screws' or rolls during lets say 1000 metre distance.
Using the conditions created by the game world in BF2 dogfighting is pretty much useless, however using the the information and experience about jets and their difference is extra important. People disregard that too easily and revert back to the very simple visual tracking, which means they simply turn as soon as they see a jet and dont even try to align their path with the target.
Path aligning is the one most underused and useful method in creating a good tracking pattern. Lets say a jet passes in front of the regular pilot. Regardless of which plane they have, they always turn straight into the OPFORs line of flight thus passing the flight line (easily distinguished by contrails), in attempt to regain visual contact as soon as possible. If the OPFOR is smart the following ride will be jumpy. Imagine a car trying to get on the highway from muddy surface at 90- 50 degree angle - what happens is that the driver will waste additional time, car speed and most important, attention on aligning the car with the tarmac. Smart drivers get back on the road at as small angle as possible.
Same in dogfighting. In turns, especially in F-35B vs J-10/ MiG-29 fights theres a specific point in a turn where the JSF pilot can 'cut' a corner giving him a slight chance of locking on to a target. What happens next is that even though the HUD has a lock, the missile does not see the target and flies on empty. The worst loss is in the fact that the jet is now not tracking the target and JSF pilot has to waste additional time tracking the target down, aligning the path of the jet or even worse, finding the target for another missile shot. Instead, if he followed the target through the turn using contrails as the 'roadmarks', he could have a shot opportunity right behind next turn.
This happens less with MiG-29/ J-10 pilots because their jets have smaller turn diameters and path aligning is much easier for them. But mistakes they do are the same and as soon as they sit into a JSF this will bite them back tenfold, in evasions this first turn mistake can be used by JSF pilots to lose the chaser in the first evasion maneuver.
One method to overcome better turn diameters is using the fly-by view. Instead of attempting to regain the target into the field of view or at least its contrails, pilots switch to outside view and guide their jets in open environment where they see everything. The challenge is in flying the jet in a totally new environment but once mastered, the pilot can overcome the differences in maneuverability or at least make them affect the dogfight less drastically. Arguably the most needed improvement once a pilot is comfortable with his controls.
Quite simply - correct technique used with patience tracking brings more success. Patience is a direct result of a pilot having a killer instinct and Ill get to that later on.

4.1 Agressive tracking

Agressive tracking gets right to the chase. Full missile HUD mode with purposely letting the opponent know that they are being chased. Missiles and machine guns are being used with every opportunity. This method is used by players flying jets that are superior to the targets, in scenarios involving a fighter and a bomber or a J-10. This is also used by novice players.
It has its ups and downs depending on the situation. Agressive tracking forces the target into evasive maneuvers even though the distance between two jets is usually long. Heres is when the mistakes made in evasive maneuvers cost the most. Usually the target pulls straight up often dropping flares in the process. Since the tracker is at a distance they have to move a lot less to keep the target locked. When the tracker has better plane the path is aligned much faster and missile shot opportunities are created much faster.
This is the opening move. After the initial lock- on, the target is tracked with full lock weapons used at every opportunity. This serves three purposes: one, target is forced to spend their afterburner and flares early in the engagement leaving them voulnerable at the next missile shot opportunity; two, targets may make the mistake early in the engagement and go for a multiple evasive maneuver while staying in the trackers line of sight and finally they are psychologically affected by the lock on tone.

4.2 Stealthy tracking

This involves using the bombing HUD and positioning the jet behind another in a way so that the target does not see the tracker when they switch to rear view. Its also always advised to either disengage or create parallel distance when the opponent goes into bombing run unless youre prepared to engage and youre at a distance that allows you to make the attack.
Since most pilots always watch behind themselves after they exit the bombing run, youll know when they look behind themselves. So unless youre ready for a kill, make them feel safe and engage just moments after they have changed the course after the bombing run.
Stealthy tracking usually turns into agressive tracking after the opening blow and heavily depends on the result of the first moments of engagement. Used mostly by pilots flying inferior jets to rely on surprise attacks rather than full out dogfighting involving maneuvers.
The difference in the psychological effect is pretty drastic. Stealthy tracking can continue in bomb HUD mode with machine gun use only. Not much practical use against F-35B, but if the chase is composed mainly of loops which may make missile use harder, full out machinegun use may force the target into the extensive use of rolls and maneuver switches. Here's where missile alarm silence makes the target build more confidence, which eventually leads them into making mistakes. Scoring missile hits from inbetween targets maneuver switches becomes a simple task. This can take time, but definitely pays off. Especially when the dogfight is held using similar jets.

4.3 Strategical tracking

Tracking method which involves familiarization with the targets evasion maneuvers. More often than not, first couple of evasions are the same for each pilot. Its up to the tracker to force the target to use those maneuvers so he can set his plane up for the kill. The method itsself is a combination of anticipation for a window of opportunity and a creativity and thinking to set the jet up to be in the right place for the kill. Ive had to use this method against pilots whos skill level is as good as mine or even higher. Rule is that every pilot makes a mistake and at their first evasions they are all predictable. From my own experience, I had a MiG pilot, real pain in the ***, who made 2 split-S to about 400- 500 feet altitude and then made a split-S downwards to lose altitude. At this moment I had a 3 second window to lock on to him and fire the missiles for an effective kill. 1.5 seconds for a lock and only 1.5 seconds for the shots. Before that our dogfights were played mostly in his favour (he had the MiG and I had the JSF), but after 'decoding' his pattern, I had the upper hand in every engagement. J- 10 pilots rely on outturning the trackers, they rarely try to outloop them. So they may end up with their broadside pointed at the target. Which opens them up for a missile shot. Strategical tracking involves lusing targets into the illusion of safety aswell. For example, if theres a chase with minimum missile opportunities, it's smart to chase the target using full missile locks. A good pilot flies in rear view, and if you manage to make him believe that you have no missiles and you cant use your cannon, they can go even as far as go rearm themselves.

4.4 Tracking - finding your target

inding your target is an important part of a dogfight, naturally. Even though the maps in BF2 are small, you can still have quite a problem actually finding your target. The more time is wasted on locating them, the more damage they inflict on your team, or even worse the bigger the chance that they locate you f irst. Youve got several methods. One, a pilot is always reloading at their air strip. Two, if youre flying as a medic, pay attention to the kill messages and the minimap. If theres a list of killed teammates, and a loctaion on the map lights up with medic marks, the target has just passed it. Use common sense and instincts to determine where the target is heading.
In a middle of a dogfight, if youve lost your target, you cant use fly-by view, and you didnt spot the target, use your insticts. Most pilots are right-handed, so most of the pilots flight maneuvers are similar. This can be a split-S with a roll and a downwards descending loop (most common, believe it or not). If you are confident that youve spooked your target enough, then you will most likely find them heading to their air strip. Its amazing how you can use human phsychology in the game. Infantry reloads, tank drivers back away or pop smoke and run, chopper pilots descent behind trees and back off, but jet pilots fly straight towards their air strip. They all do this to regain confidence. Somehow the airstrip makes them feel safe again. Doesnt matter if a pilot has full stock of ammo and full armor. If they have been scared, and if they have lost the chaser, they will try to regain their selfconfidence. The most likely place to find that, is a friendly airbase. In Wake, sometimes after the dogfight, Ive seen J10 pilots fly towards the strip even though USMC has the flag. Most of all, I see myself do the same very often. Doesnt matter how good I am, or how bad the opposition was, if they have managed to scare me, and affect my selfconfidence, they have made me want to make a pass over the airfield.

5. Knowing your plane

F-35B
MiG-29
J-10
F-18A

While most BF2 weapons are/ were pretty much mirrorbalanced, excluding unlocks, the jets and airpower in general had a wider meaning of balance. At first, each faction had its own ace in certain levels. MEC had the 'Havoc', USMC flew the 'Black Hawk' and PLA had the J-10.
Unfortunately for most mature players, DICE took out USMC air mastercard leaving it with an inferior F-35B and no counterbalancer for MiG-29, Mi-28, all bombers and of course the J-10. Theres F-18 with its missile deflection but in all other aspects its still an inferior jet to its counterparts. Fulcrum vs Hornet is probably the most fair fight and even here Fulcrum has the better turn radius.
In the very general meaning, jets arent different, they are just weaker or stronger than each other and even though mirror balance is for BF2 players who are still in grade school, with now USMC not having a say in balance issues, BF2 pilots are left with a challenge.
Some have switched to PLA/ MEC side, some are using the F-35B with grinding teeth. And even though in wider sense all jets can be set into a ladder where J-10 is at the pole position and F-35B is at the bottom with its big sister F-15, there are certain differences in details that allow pilots to use one jets strenghts and opponents jets weaknesses to at least increase the chances to end a dogfight in their favour. However, golden rule of BF has been : do not learn the arsenal, its only a arcade game. I can say that I do not have met a F-35B pilot who has not been killed by me while I was in a superior jet.
That means that when players are equal, jets have a say who wins. And its even easier to down a F-35B. So no illusions there, although a pilot has a lot to say in a dogfight, the engagement type is just as important. Im not going to grind numbers here because that would just bore most people and they can get all of these in www.totalBF2.com forums using the simple search function.

5.1 Plane comparision chart

F-35B 'Lightning II'

*Worst turn radius, at least 15% worse than J-10s and MiGs
*Fastest roll rate and fastest response time to controls making it the most agile jet
*30% less afterburner time with the exact same afterburner regeneration time
*Fastest acceleration and deceleration
*Lowest average speed (turns and loops included)
*Highest maximum speed (afterburner engaged)
*High speed boost with afterburner

MiG-29 'Fulcrum'

*Second best turn radius next to J-10
*Slowest roll rate of all fighters but better response tim than J-10 has
*High afterburner capacity
*Medium average speed with low maximum speed
*Medium acceleration and deceleration
*Medium speed boost with afterburner

J-10

*Best turn radius, slighly better than MiGs
*Third best total roll rate, better than MiGs
*Slight control response delay
*High afterburner capacity
*Highest average speed
*Second highest maximum speed
*Small afterburner speed boost bonus

F-18A 'Hornet'

*Third best turn radius, but not far behind MiGs nor J-10s making it an almost equal jet in that area
*Second best roll rate, close to JSF
*Short afterburner timer
*In speed F18 and MiG29 are nearly the same
*Higher than average acceleration

5.2 Smart *insert plane here* pilot

A good dogfighter does not fly all jets the same. This means that when the said pilot flies the JSF, he does not use it as a J-10. Most common suggestion is to never go into a circlewar with a J-10, but these kind of tips go much further.
A smart player does not use his equipment in a way so that it will favour the opposition. This is a common case with JSF pilots who ignore the jets exceptional agility and choose maneuvers which other jets can follow. Even such simple maneuver as barrel roll, if done multiple times in a row, other jets have a hard time following it through. Learning jets differences doesnt include flying worst jets at all times with no exception.
A good way to learn is to fly a superior jet against an inferior and experience the difficulties in certain tracking moments yourself. A good pilot remembers where he had difficulties and later on, when the tables have turned, he uses this new knowledge to his favour.

5.3 The most interesting dogfight combinations

Theres a difference between having a dogfight which is a challenge, a slaughter or just being plain equal fun. First being the well- known F-35B versus any fighter combination, second being any fighter versus the Lightning II and third being a dogfight held between two same jets. In competitive play, its a norm, to have an option to use the most equal gear possible to create a fair battleground. From my own personal experience, both in friendly 1 vs 1 fights or public dogfights, there is no match for a double F-35B dogfight. This rarity occurs when a smart pilot steals your teams JSF, a rarity indeed. Both jets have the same turn radius, which means that the lenght of the turn becomes a non- factor. But they both share exceptional agility and that's what makes the fight extremely enjoyable. Next time, if you have a chance to play a 1 vs 1, don't instinctively fly the J-10, tell your adversary to pick the JSF and try those. In public play, the most common good match is between F-18 and J-10 or between a MiG-29 and the Hornet. Shamefully, the lesser extent in inbalance between maneuverability capabilities of those jets, is multiplied by their different missile hit characteristics. Combination is a great way to make an exciting fight aswell. With increased missile hits, some players like the combination of F-18s and J-10s aswell, however agility and extremely high roll speed doesnt really make much of an impact to the dogfight in those types of fights and the dogfight becomes into a circlewar. Jets who have no hit detection anomalies usually have to do a lot more than flying in circles.
My perhaps most interesting fight has been against a pilot who flew with his brother. I flew the MiG, they both flew the JSF, it was in a pre-1.2 patch environment and the dogfight lasted for quite a while. After about 10 minutes or so, I won the fight, but only because the JSF pilot playing bait (younger brother) stayed stable for a little too long. After taking one pilot down, it wasnt overly hard to take down the older brother. The dogfight could have ended in their favour, if the older brother would have made it behind me faster, and utilize the moment of my voulnerability in his favour.

6. Missiles - Understanding the missiles and application of knowledge in combat

Upon looking at the information regarding missiles they appear to be pretty straightforward. Knowing your arsenal is another step to having more chances in winning. While missiles do their work now better than in first set of patches theres still a need to explain how exactly the missiles work and where they lack in or where their strenght is.
The way the missiles are guided is related to helicopters TV guided missiles. They have 2 axis and they change their course after a set period of time, defined in milliseconds, it has been changed throughout patches. After each period, the missile tracking screen gets refreshed, and the course gets adjusted towards targets new location. The field of view is limited and has been changed throughout the patches. In the latest patch it was 45 degrees.
This change was made because of this problem. Missiles relock to the next best heatsource after they miss their target and because of relatively wide field of view (90 degrees) there was plenty to choose from. This also brought up a problem where upon entering terminal distance the missiles stopped locating certain jets heatsource and lost track of their target.
Then theres the potential turn rate of the missiles, which is right now 5 times higher than it was in original game. Missiles can make 180 degree turns and their turn capability is virtually unlimited.
Very important is missile launch speed and the combination of speeds. Missile launcher adds 'X' KPH to missile speed, missile itsself has 'Y' maximum speed and jets current speed 'Z' gets added to the equation: x+y+z= missile maximum speed. Basically if the evading jets maximum speed is higher than this number, which is a rare occasion, the target can outrun the missile.
Missiles also had a delay between launch moment and activation, where they started tracking their targets. Right now its set to such a low number that its marginal.
The most common mistake in launching missiles is disregarding missile lock angle, or field of view. So what happens is that upon launching, the missiles exit the jet at an angle at which they do not see their target.
Understanding the anomalies is also needed. J-10 tail section blocks missiles field of view at the heatsource and its hitbox mesh is at a degree which promotes missiles not registering a hit at the target. Its advised to shoot from angles at which the missiles approach the target so that they see the heatsource, in J-10 case its from the sides or from its belly.
In Single Player these anomalies do not occur, so I take a wild guess and say its because of the ping (and field of view of course, mostly). Missiles have 500 units of damage against jets 1000 hitpoints and they also have quite nice of a splash damage. Getting a hit at a target where the impact is at the center of a body distributes maximum splash damage to the jet and can get the target to dark smoke.

7. Cannon - Understanding the cannon and application of knowledge in combat

Cannon is a weapon which is often underused. The problem comes from the fact that cannon is extremely affected by ping. From personal experience, above 150 ms pings start to create a formidable challenge to the pilot. If the ping is above 250 ms, using the cannon becomes a useless task. Even though the cannons damage rate is 100 units (against jets 1000 hitpoints) at 600 RPM, players get thrown back by the challenge of using it in high ping games.
All jets differ in cannon placement and different players prefer different layouts. MiG and J have them placed on the side and USMC jets have them set at the center of the nose. Personally I prefer the non-traditional placement for a dogfight. In heavy maneuvering, a little chaotic placement has proven to suit better for me. However, pilots who have a better hand at machinegun aiming usually like the central placement.
Cannon ammunition capacity also has a major say in the lenght of a dogfight. Pilot should never break off from a dogfight. 600 rounds vs 300 rounds can make a difference. Nowadays, with better tracking missiles its not much of a problem, however, if the tracker is F-18, against J-10, 600 rounds of ammo says that even with emtpy missile box, the dogfight goes on, and usually until the end of J-10. Ive ran out of ammo in J-10 and MiG-29 many times, and I have never ran out of ammo in USMC fighters so the memories from that part are only positive.
Next underanalyzed issue is the distance. In maneuvers the cannon range is actually pretty limited and leading the cannon is actually harder or less useful than it seems. At certain distance, even leading the target becomes useless. Watch closely at jets having a gun fight, you can easily see the effective range of the machine guns, which is about 3 jet lenghts. Note that Im speaking about using the guns in turns. Cannons are definitely the most rewarding weapons in a dogfight, especially nowadays.

8. Emotions in gameplay

You know, theres a reason why Maverick was as good as he was. The emotional kind of players who take things personally and develop a killer instinct are better pilots in terms of endurance in fights and strive for 'perfection'. Emotional gameplay should also include emotional control, so upon getting bested, many of those emotional fighters simply turn into dumb punks. Or their motivation has been mistaken for their age, which turns out to be quite low.
The more emotions emerge in the gameplay, the more fun the game becomes. I enjoy the adrenaline rush and the competitive feel which comes with a good dogfight and luckily I havent been talkig smack back to a pilot who has beaten me. I, however have taken a load of hacking accusations along with needless ****.
In sports, real life or competitive, being a bad losers doesnt necessarily mean you are useless. Bad losers who accept their own fault, will overcome every nerf, every obstacle, or every challenge, in theory anyway.

9. Conclusion

So what does it take to become a better dogfighter? How to become a batter player in a situation where differences in planes does not allow for much success in using them all as one carbon copy? For those who want to become better and are willing to go to the next level to pursuit that goal, the simple methods work best.
Take the worse plane more often, pay attention to the details, especially those that define the outcome of a dogfight. Always play against better or good players and develop that killer instinct. Learning through experience is the key, but too many people rely on learning through conventional means, such as 'playing to get better', which basically means that they only focus on their piloting skills.
An analyzing mind and thinking player who forecasts a few moves ahead has the upper hand in a dogfight. A thinking player does not fly so that it favours their opposition. Try to figure out an answer to 'why?' to get an answer to question 'how?'. Remember that backwards engineering and reproducing the events in your favour is a powerful tool. Every pilot has his own individual pattern and style and everything can be figured out.
Dogfighting is a constant competition and the best party wins. At least this is how it is in theory. For the sake of peace of mind, missile impact bugs and whatnot should be considered as bugs which should be fixed.

I dare you to give this to an english teacher!

[ponton]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Great job Chris, i really like way you've written your post.
@deviousbf2: why did you quote whole Chris' post??

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

That's really cool and all, but what do you do with your time outside of Battlefield 2?

I mean, where do you come up with the time to write something like that?

Good read though.

Right now I work in 12 hour shifts, 4 shifts a week. I get paid well. I took a 1 years break from school, otherwise Im a student. The catalyst to create such work came from the fact that right now I am not in posession of my own PC, but I have a Pentium 133Mhz laptop (!!!!) at my place which doesnt have ANY output means except for a floppy drive. It doesnt even have PAINT! Otherwise I would have given some Redfield(R) pictorial stuff with the guide. Anyway, when its cold and rainy outside, you have a laptop which wont connect to the net, and your next shift starts in 36 hours, and you have Mircosoft Word on the PC, bunch of knowledge to spare, you just start typing. All in all, it took me about 6-10 hours to do this.

I do have a life, and a good one, but I also have tons of free time and a lot of experience and knowledge

Could you expand on that a little please? Do you mean say, 15 degrees port or starboard off their tail or more a acute angle than that?

The moment of exposure appears when the chase is in horizontal, you lock on and spook them and they make a turn LEFT/RIGHT and either pull up or continue the turn so they either go in diagonal fashion upwards or just make a turn/horizontal loop. The rule of the fist is that they open themselves up with their broadside. When they make a strickt maneuver upwards exposing their upside, then its useless to shoot. They have to expose their side, upside to you, if that made any sense.

When you chase a J10 in horizontal fashion, his rear mesh is at a 30-50 degree angle to you, like a knifes edge, so the missiles "bounce" away. The tail also covers the heatsource.

As far as the belly is concerned, that seems the hardest as when you ping them for lock (apart from flaring) they either pull a loop up, or swing to the left or right, either way, even if you are 15 degrees below, keeping the belly in sight is a tall order - I cant ever remember anyone that dived down exposing more belly from a lock ping but I suppose it must happen sometimes.

This is the moment. The next thing to do is shoot the missiles with some lead, as if you were shooting the cannon at the J10, use the same method to shoot the missiles aswell.

In an attempt to understand J10 mesh Ive been on wake servers with just one other person, gone US and flew over to grab the spare J10 to dogfight - its frustrating being able to follow them loop for loop but watching the missiles just peel off from a full lock when fired from a <5 degree angle, one that would knock an F35 stone dead.

Knowledge and patience and application of that knowledge with a ton of patience pays off well.

Lastly, with my own method I calculated that the turning circle of the j10 vs the f35 is close to 20% different around a median of 200ft altitude.

That is correct. Sad and correct. Ive corrected this, enhancing F35Bs strenghts and making J10s weaknesses more drastic in a mod I made and I believe I got it right.

All the europeans get around 80-110 ping, which is very good for being a US server imo.. I get like a 40-70 ping.

NY servers give me a 120 ms ping and its great, I think Texas servers may go up to 160 and above but its playable. But the difference between 160 and 40-70 is enourmous in terms of cannon use. Still playable.

MOBB, thanks for the feedback.
Baseraping, its something each and every player makes a choice for himself. I personally dont baserape, even if Im against J10 with a F35B. This tactic is viable for me when theres a high stake game going on like a clan match or something. In pubs, its a no-go for me. However I dont really complain when Im the victim either. Thing is, MAJORITY of the pilots have actually given me a chance to take off when I politely ask for it, which is really cool.

Jet stealing, the same, I dont really agree with it, and I dont do it, but I dont complain either.

And finally, wingmen. Oh boy, I knew I missed something out. Having a great wingman is the best thing you can have in air. Great tip.

Good job Chris

<3 Coco

Btw, you should have added that the demo version is a way better way to dogfight because it takes more skill than 1.4.

Absolutely, not to mention that a lot of excellent pilots are concentrated in just 3-4 servers max and you dont have to fly most of your games without some challenge. I dont think I have to chase you for 15 minutes in the retail game :laugh: .

You actually have to center yourself to the plane and get a good lock to down the plane.

Not to mention that in most cases youre going to have to rely on 15 minutes of hard work and strategy.

I have a PC upgrade underway, I hope I´ll catch you this month.

I dare you to give this to an english teacher!

My English teacher, both from high school and college would be impressed. Ive come a long way and from what I can tell, Im well ahead than anyone from my class/group. Most of my highschool classmates dont know jack of English anymore LOL.

[imported_VISTREL]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Several months ago, I was playing BF2 aircrafts daily until I decided to try IL2 Sturmovik. Although, it does not have tracking missiles, still it's a great fun, and very challenging. I recommend ya all to try that game.

[zhpkiller]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Playing FuShee pass yesterday, it's damn hard to land a missile on the F18. Got him locked, shot about a plane length in front of his turn (he was a bit of distance away and doing a mild turn), yet still can't land a shot. Sometimes I feel the F18s are more slippery than the J10s

[Nash46]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

erm it mite b good if i can b arsed to read it

[Blades]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

I dare you to give this to an english teacher!

Was it really necessary to quote the whole thing? We KNOW what you would be referring to...

[Desertfox]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

I just wanted to add something that i try to do when ever the opportunity presents itself. Steal the enemy jet!!! It is the most decisive way to achieve air supperiority and increase your odds of survival since there is one less jet to shoot you down.

If you are in an f35 and hes in a j10 and you shoot him down, try to steal his jet. By doing this you just cut their airpower in half and increased your by 50 percent since you now have and extra jet. an additional perk to this is people will wait for the jet that never spawns taking at least a couple of people out of the fight on the enemy side.

I always steal there stuff, but I find its the exact opposite of they just stay there. On GOF I stole there attack chopper about 10 minutes later I died, we had village I spawned there took a DPV and got it again, I got it a total of about 5 times before they finally got it back Also I was playing wake, and I stole there J10 twice XD

[Mad Ad]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Excellent, thanks for the reply Chris....im fairly sure I understand you, about 25ish around, 10-15ish up, plus the required lead. I will be giving that a go


Yeah wingmen, I dont think ive seen that covered in a guide, whats that about then? I can understand wingmen IRL as a mission is usually a single objective or a set patrol but what are you supposed to do differently on a bf2 map? Like fly around together?

I do that sometimes, follow him and if he bombs left Ill bomb right but it can suck points wise a lot of the time as hes taking the pick of the spot, not to mention watching him chase and kill an nme pilot while im feeling like a spare part...and Ill spot any plane whether im up or down but as for the complete wingman experience, im yet to feel it....

[Coconut187]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Hehe, Chris and I make a good wingman team.

He focuses on the dogfithing while I focus on t he bombing which works out real good. I find it hard to believe though when the team we're on loses with the support Chris and I give...

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Dogfighter, give this paper to your English teacher.

Excellent, thanks for the reply Chris....im fairly sure I understand you, about 25ish around, 10-15ish up, plus the required lead. I will be giving that a go

Yup, you can also try to shoot the missile just before he makes a halfroll to go into another turn, I can land a lucky shot then as they sometimes open their broadside to me.

Yeah wingmen, I dont think ive seen that covered in a guide, whats that about then? I can understand wingmen IRL as a mission is usually a single objective or a set patrol but what are you supposed to do differently on a bf2 map? Like fly around together?

You know, I made myself a promise that I wouldnt change the content, but Im going to update it on the "Wingman/Teamwork" aspect a lot more. The reason it slipped my mind was mostly because the methods I use in aerial teamworking are based on me doing the dogfighting and my partner doing the ATS job. But Ive had some excellent wingmen and I think I should cover this subject in details, plus a few hints and tips on wingman fast communication.

When youre doing your job with a wingman, its all about total aerial domination and never about points. When you find yourself racing with your wingman for points, youre not doing your job.

2 jets cover more area than 1 jet, and with a combined salvo they have 12 missiles and 600-1200 cannon rounds. But most important, they have 2 sets of flares. The key here is ultrafast response to your pilots call. Me and a few buddies I know have solved this issue with simply using the NEGATIVE and ROGER keys.

3 times negative means- need backup, this also means that you have the enemy in sight or youve engaged him. Whether you spot them out as an extra is secondary. Once my wingman hears me say "negative" 3 times, they stop what they are doing and roll in for assistance. You wouldnt believe how much this actually offers.

Theres always teamspeak and VOIP to share detailed info on your plans, weapon ammo status and flare status, also information on enemy heading. The VOIP use in recon, like telling people from where to where an enemy jet is heading, gives you an enormous edge. You can take altitude and drop on them with a surprise from above.

Having a wingman means, you are covering 2X more airspace than you would be, and bluntly, you have 2X more chances of making single, fatal blows. Most important, if you have a wasp at your as5, you know you have your *** covered. With wellhoming missiles, there is almost noone to wait for another 5 seconds when they will hear a lock warning beeping up their as5.

The key is communication, a wingman you know, and FAST communcation. Teamspeak conversations drain attention at an alarming rate. Pressing 3 times Negative doesnt take attention at all.

I do that sometimes, follow him and if he bombs left Ill bomb right but it can suck points wise a lot of the time as hes taking the pick of the spot, not to mention watching him chase and kill an nme pilot while im feeling like a spare part...and Ill spot any plane whether im up or down but as for the complete wingman experience, im yet to feel it....

In all seriousness, it is a rarity. Youve got to find people who dont play for POINTS POINTS POINTS because then it becomes a ATS competition.

If hes a good bomber, you know him and you are pals, give him the "3X negative" code for "immediate backup" and let him do the bombing. If hes a good bomber, hell work for the team and he will do all the job that needs to be done. In the same time, you can focus on 3 other important things (that bring in points aswell)

*Jets (priority 1, especially when they are chasing your wingman)
*Choppers (priority 2, shifts to 1 if they are doing enourmous damage around flags)
*STA sites (priority 3, shifts to priority 1 if they pose a threat)

Anyway, Ill probably update the wingman part in the next following 2 days.

And as for F18, I find the best results of hitting it, is when they are making a turn and taking altitude. If they are making barrel rolls to shake off the missiles, just fire your machinegun into the centre point of the barrel roll. They will take serious damage and are forced to change their evasive methods. As soon as they change the turn, they instinctively turn upwards (after which they might make a turn with a roll downwards), when they make that switch from barrel roll, shoot the missiles (preferably so that the missile lands on them as they are switching from barrel roll).

I find it hard to believe though when the team we're on loses with the support Chris and I give...

Really hard to help the team to win if they focus on scratching their balls, insead of capping the flags :laugh:

erm it mite b good if i can b arsed to read it

erm it mite b a gd red if ur inglish techer ddnt fail to teach u hw to write