Implied realism and expectations of such.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

well this wil all be better in 2142

[DesertFalcon]

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

I agree but it think there is a line between realisim and fun. main thing I hate is bunny hoppers and dolphin divers.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

You respawn when you die
You can change kit/loadout everytime you die
Every injury is magically healed with defibrillators
No one has blood
When you die a little bag comes out of your body for other people to pick up
Anyone can jump in a boat/tank/helicopter/APC/jet and instantly know how to operate it safely
You apply to command the troops
You get points everytime you kill someone
Friendly soldiers have their name floating above their head
A helicopter and be shot heavily in the rotor and have no failure

I could go on

This equals arcade game.

Would you play a game where you die once and have to uninstall?

All of this is done for the sake of gameplay, it still attempts to be as realistic as possible.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

You have to take breathing, movement, sight picture, alignment, wind speed, elevation distances, etc. etc. into consideration. Just right clicking into iron sights shouldn't be instant 100% accuracy. Perhaps being in the prone or kneeling for X amounts of seconds should add to accuracy. Of course auto or 3 round bursts will pull up and right for righties and up and left on lefties and increase deviation at distance. The quickest you can really fire every shot accurately is between the inhale and exhale.

But what would 4 time expert know about that, I'm just a forum drama queen

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

right, I agree its a compromise.

They have to compromise on the things that make it a game, but they dont have to compromise on the aspects of the game that remove the required skill to achieve greatness.

I know when I played...UT2k3 for example, if a guy with superior hand-eye coordination was wielding a rail-gun... he would win the majority of encounters he came across. These games are, at their most basic level, tests of hand-eye coordination. Sniping is hard because you have to click the mouse the instant the crosshairs are on your target, running and gunning is hard because you are a moving weapon platform attempting to out-stalk your enemy who is also a moving target, dogfighting is hard for all the same reasons.

Why give us iron sights? Why give us red-dot scopes? Why give us crosshairs? If the bullets are going to land somewhere in some mysterious "Cone of fire" dispite your perfect aim... whats the point?

I can see why some people call this a noob game. Aim really isnt that greatly rewarded. I love it, dont get me wrong... I really enjoy the game most of the time I play it but I think that the game has gotten progressivly "dumber" and more prone to fits of lucky spray-n-pray since the first expansion of BF1942.



I wish FPS games in general, would reward skill more than luck. I know im not alone in that. Hell, if the weapons were twice as accurate as they are now, I'm sure I'd get utterly destroyed! But you know what? I'd be challenged and I know that my kills would be a result of my own improvement...

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

Consultant01, thanks for keeping this forum interesting via real issues and things that are very interesting to think about!

Anyway, realism is implied, but then since it's a game, so is the non-realism. It's obvious that no one really wants either extreme, so there's a compromise. DICE chose a certain compromise and you chose a different one, so you are bit unhappy/frustrated, but really there's not much we can do. It's how they chose to make the game.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

I dunno, I'm not too bothered about the cone of fire, I know in a real battle it would be very unlikely for me personally to land a shot with pinpoint accuracy. Maybe someone who has fired a real rifle can correct me on this, but I would say its unlilely to hit the bullseye with every (first) shot. They seem to have shooting as an Olympic sport, and I know we are not all athletes.

I get more pissed off at the flopping around to avoid being hit, or bouncing around while reloading. Maybe I will just buy a macro keyboard, heh, give them something to complain about because I can't exploit with leik leet skillorz...

Firing while under fire is a crapshoot. It all boils down to how well you were trained and how well you can concentrate under stress. Yes, shooting is an Olympic sport, but you can't compare the two just on the basis of both using firearms.

As stated before, you have to give up some elements of realism in order to have gameplay. If you were either killed or immobilized after one hit, then everyone would spend an eternity in the spawn wait. Sure, it wouldn't be hard to eliminate shock paddles or make head shots 100% death or any number of tweaks, but what is one man's perfect balance will be another's upset applecart.

Wait for the mods. There are enough of them to satisfy almost everyone's taste.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

I dunno, I'm not too bothered about the cone of fire, I know in a real battle it would be very unlikely for me personally to land a shot with pinpoint accuracy. Maybe someone who has fired a real rifle can correct me on this, but I would say its unlilely to hit the bullseye with every (first) shot. They seem to have shooting as an Olympic sport, and I know we are not all athletes.

I get more pissed off at the flopping around to avoid being hit, or bouncing around while reloading. Maybe I will just buy a macro keyboard, heh, give them something to complain about because I can't exploit with leik leet skillorz...

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

I don't think there's much complaint, you buy a game for fun. Designers put content into a game in order to make it fun (for the majority). Afterall, a game can never be realistic, people don't fly helicopters using a mouse now, do they?

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

Whoever invented Cone Of Fire should be shot. But atm I don`t really care anymore as there is PoE2 and PRMM where there is recoil instead of cof.

But yeh, EA should have added a lable on the case saying : "Looks realistic, plays arcade" or something like that.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

As I hope it does for BF2.


My gripe with weapon accuracy goes like this... the bullets should go exactly where the rifle is pointing, period.

The Iron-sights should be 100% accurate and next-shot accuracy should decreased due to recoil. If I sit back and go in single-shot mode and tap out the rounds and let my rifle settle for aim between shots, the shots should be pretty darn accurate.

I just can't stand weapons like the SCAR-L being aimed at the head of an enemy 20 yards away, the red-dot is right on their nose, pulling the trigger and missing completly. It's just retarded.

This is EXACTLY what you get in SWAT4. First show accuracy in non-moving stand or crouch position is almost always spot on (depending on the weaponry). After you let loose, theres IMMENSE recoil (compared to BF2) handlig of which is art on its own. It also comes with the random cone of fire.

This leads me to the question and ANSWER "why not in BF2?".

Reason is simple. SWAT4 offers oh so much cover and means to escape an engagement. The whole map is a maze of cover and tactical environment is offering a lot to the thinking player. Battlefield 2 on the other hand is extremely open, and with pinpoint accuracy involved, theres not much point in crossing fields or streets without getting killed. While accurate in real life, BF2 would be so much more frustrating.

BF2 is a fun-game first and foremost and DICE has been pretty clear on that. They also said that getting this game a step further is a job for the mods.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

As I hope it does for BF2.


My gripe with weapon accuracy goes like this... the bullets should go exactly where the rifle is pointing, period.

The Iron-sights should be 100% accurate and next-shot accuracy should decreased due to recoil. If I sit back and go in single-shot mode and tap out the rounds and let my rifle settle for aim between shots, the shots should be pretty darn accurate.

I just can't stand weapons like the SCAR-L being aimed at the head of an enemy 20 yards away, the red-dot is right on their nose, pulling the trigger and missing completly. It's just retarded.

[imported_Rafterman]

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

I go both way on this - I understand it's an arcade game, but I also enjoy a more realistic type of gameplay. There are some obvious things that could be addressed (parachuting off of a building for example) and other things that would up the realism w/o effecting playability (weapon accuracy for example).

I've always felt that Forgotten Hope for BF42 struck a good balance.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

If the BF2 character models were Super-Mario Brothers looking things, the expectations would be different.

They aren't though. They're computer representations of actual military personnel.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

The "real world" elements of BF2 appeal to many, many people. There is something that "real world" feel type games add to the immersion of the gamer that other "fantasy/sci-fi" games can't pull off.

With that said, BF2 is a First Person Shooter. It is NOT a simulator. Therefore, certain elements MUST have an arcadey/gamey feel to them. Simulators are awesome, but they do not make for great game platforms. Action is all geared toward real time actions and this is usually too slow of a pace for most gamers to find appealing. (the noted exception would be flight sims and racing sims)

So, in order for a FPS to attract the masses, they add "realism" and then to hold the masses, they make it fast paced and fun.

Delicate balance. Personally, I would have stuck with more of the Desert Combat feel. It felt less "arcadey", but allowed for some really fast paced games and had an outstanding immersion factor.

I agree.