Implied realism and expectations of such.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

No it wouldn't as you can see relay good in some Pics from Iraq or Afghanistan, a Humvee even takes a light anti Tank mine without being blowed to bits and pieces....

first off the bottom of a re-armored humvee is its strongest part. secondly, we are talking about a 137 mm anti-armor missile, not some rpg. if you were talking about an abrams i would have to agree. but nothing else on the battlefield can withstand a hit from one of these missiles, especially not a humvee.

have you ever fired a AK74 or a M15A3 at Full Auto mode? there's no ****ing way you'll hit more than air at a distance of 50 meters and above cause you just can't control your Rifle at Full Auto mode.....

he wasnt talking about automatic at all, he was talking about the cone of fire when firing single shots. the ak doesnt even go close to where you aim.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

You respawn when you die
You can change kit/loadout everytime you die
Every injury is magically healed with defibrillators
No one has blood
When you die a little bag comes out of your body for other people to pick up
Anyone can jump in a boat/tank/helicopter/APC/jet and instantly know how to operate it safely
You apply to command the troops
You get points everytime you kill someone
Friendly soldiers have their name floating above their head
A helicopter and be shot heavily in the rotor and have no failure

I could go on

This equals arcade game.

My favorite is the thought of two opposing sides building airfields within a couple of miles of eachother and people using parachutes in the city.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

Anti-vehicle missles/rockets. An ERYX to the engine-block/passenger cab of the vehicle could and probably would blow the vehicle to bits... if not the entire vehicle, then certainly its occupants I'm thinking.

No it wouldn't as you can see relay good in some Pics from Iraq or Afghanistan, a Humvee even takes a light anti Tank mine without being blowed to bits and pieces....

The "Cone of fire" is my favorite though. To think that a highly refined rifle like the M4, M16, G36, M249 SAW, AK101, etc) would be alowed into service if it actually deviated that much from its iron-sights/laser dot is beyond me.

have you ever fired a AK74 or a M15A3 at Full Auto mode? there's no ****ing way you'll hit more than air at a distance of 50 meters and above cause you just can't control your Rifle at Full Auto mode.....

there's something i wopuld like to know, you guys call someone that hits a target from 300 yards with a scoped Rifle a Sniper?
in our Army we shoot up to 550 yards with our AR's and no Scope, you become a Sniper if you hit a moving target with a diameter of 6 inch at a range of 830 yards with a 4x20 Scope.......

besides that BF2 is just a ****ed up Buggy Game not more or less

[Roger Smith]

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

i didnt read the whole thing, but i agree that the game was meant to be as realistic as possible while maintaining gameplay and fun factor.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

I just wish it had blood

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

Americas Army SUCKS. It is too realistic therefore, no fun. Proven by the fact that video games even exist; we want to escape reality, not make another one.

I find it very good and fun. Weapons and is a perfect mix between arcade and realism .People, grenades act like they should. Actually requires some thinking. Now OFP is realistic, but you would die in the first 5 sec so no point talking about that.

BTW, not everyone need to escape reality cause they have ****ed it up or their life sucks.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

The only problems I have with this game are the CTD's, J10, and I think medics should be killed with one shot from a sniper (Only medics) as they are impossible to kill with sniper unless of course its a headshot.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

As realistic as possible? well DICE has failed miserably at realism.

Cone of fire+ 3 or 4 mags+ more than 3 shots to the chest to kill someone= infantry is pretty much useless when it comes to fighting head on, large scale.

This Rock, Paper, Scissors thing is such BS

How hard is it to make guns act like in Americas Army. That would make people take more cover and make tactical decisions.
Also would stop people from running around the map. Currently you can pretty much freely run around without getting shot cause the default guns are total crap.

Whoever hits the prone button first (and has an unlock gun), wins pretty much.

sry for crap english

Americas Army SUCKS. It is too realistic therefore, no fun. Proven by the fact that video games even exist; we want to escape reality, not make another one.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

All of this is done for the sake of gameplay, it still attempts to be as realistic as possible.

As realistic as possible? well DICE has failed miserably at realism.

Cone of fire+ 3 or 4 mags+ more than 3 shots to the chest to kill someone= infantry is pretty much useless when it comes to fighting head on, large scale.

This Rock, Paper, Scissors thing is such BS

How hard is it to make guns act like in Americas Army. That would make people take more cover and make tactical decisions.
Also would stop people from running around the map. Currently you can pretty much freely run around without getting shot cause the default guns are total crap.

Whoever hits the prone button first (and has an unlock gun), wins pretty much.

sry for crap english

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

It's not hard to figure out, games are for fun if it was realistic we couldn't even play battlefield on a computer because that's not "realistic" enough for some people.

But that's the whole problem right there. Everyone has a different stick that they measure "fun" against.

Personally I'm pretty happy with how BF2 turned out. There are one or two things I'd change if I was in charge (Air dropped Toyota trucks with an RPK stuck through a hole in the window?!?!?!)

But overall the game is fun.

However there are things that, IMHO and in the opinion of the OP, detract from the fun.

Unfortunately EA and Dice brought this on themselves when they made a game that emulates (note I didn't say SIMulates) real world things.

IRL the .50 would drop you dead. A Marine wouldn't be seen bunny hopping down the road, a jet can't re-arm by flying over the runway.

These are all things that increase the gameplay fun in one regard, but detract from it in others. Sure it's fun for the flyboy to be able to zoot over the runway and arm up, but it'd be more fun for the ground punders if they'd HAVE to land. Even if they just needed to land, stop, turn around and get airborn again, it give the ground pounder a chance to slam an Eryx into it.

The bunny hopping is still idiotic. It should never have been allowed into the game. it does make it too easy for people to avoid machiengun fire.

However I have an instant open BASE capable 'chute. While not terribly effective in a gunfight, it is useful to be able to jump off a biulding instead of using the stairs all the time.

BF2 puts in a fairly well done balance between Sim guys looking for a hard core military game, and deathmatch bunnies who want a fast paced FPS.

IMHO they should remove bunny hopping and insta un-proning, and make the planes have to land to re arm and they'd have a perfect game.

Maybe tweak the cone fire a bit, but that's optional. Everyone has the same drawback here.

KBK

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

You respawn when you die
You can change kit/loadout everytime you die
Every injury is magically healed with defibrillators
No one has blood
When you die a little bag comes out of your body for other people to pick up
Anyone can jump in a boat/tank/helicopter/APC/jet and instantly know how to operate it safely
You apply to command the troops
You get points everytime you kill someone
Friendly soldiers have their name floating above their head
A helicopter and be shot heavily in the rotor and have no failure

I could go on

This equals arcade game.

Not to mention you use a mouse and keyboard to shoot a gun. If you guys want realism, go out into the real world and buy some guns and go shooting. And if you want to kill people join the army. It's not hard to figure out, games are for fun if it was realistic we couldn't even play battlefield on a computer because that's not "realistic" enough for some people.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

If only a few of us could go back in time and opine...

Infantry weapon accuracy: keep it real.

Healing and resupplying: keep it fun.

Tanks: Let them kill helo's easily.

Artillary: It ain't helping anybody.

Commander: Well, that's not so bad.

Jets: Only on 1/3 of the maps.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

it looks and feels nice but thats where it ends .
plus as far as team play i have one thing to say .
not in a clan or Sq with m8s there is none .
join a sever try to join a Sq hey yay theres only 2.
and even they only have 2 or 3 lads in them .
try to form a Sq and get other ppl to join it .
hell no im out for myself what you think im dumb.
plus a lack of game types is letting this game down badly.
i play call of duty,uo and it has lots of game types .
some i think would work gr8 with BF2 and its Sq play.
like S&D and lots of others .
gr8 game realistic no way lack of game types shamefull .
hey pong was a long time ago ppl .
but hey the new one has all of 2 game types .
to lil to late i now place my trust with the moders out there.
they have been gaming for a long time and know what ppl want.
plus their free what free is this some kind of madness .
no its true ppl work hard to bring you gr8 mods .
and better bf2 and we are still talking about how gr8 bf2 is .
as a platform its for moders its gr8 as a game its good.
sorry ppl thats the way i see it iv playd a lot of FPS.
and its 2006 not the 80s or 90s any more .
i just want more from a game than eye candy and stats .
like all you i paid so il play but bf 2142 ota be doing something new .
the mods are and they have less than no backing nevermind EA and DICE.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

I think what detracts BF2 from being realistic or immersive is not that it is completely unrealistic, but that some things are unintuitive.

When a player is dropped into an environment that looks and feels similar to the real world, the player has expectations that things will behave like they do in the real world.

If I press a button in the game to hop into a vehicle, that is the result I expect. BF2 delivers well, without introducing the complications of fitting into an armoured vehicle. There is a small bit of unrealism in controlling of vehicles, but it is at least intuitive when we follow the controls assigned in the game options.

But what is NOT intuitive in this game, is things like bunny-hopping and dolphin-diving. It would be absurd to see someone in real life bunny-hopping like they are on super-powered pogo sticks. It defies our understanding of how the real world works, and it is therefore not only unrealistic, but ruins the immersion factor by being unintuitive to our a priori knowledge of the world.

Same with rockets. If I shoot a rocket at a buggy, I expect from my a priori knowledge of the real world, that it will blow up. If I shoot at a tank, I also know that in the real world, it might NOT blow up, but it may take multiple hits. BF2 delivers in the latter, but not the former example (rockets seem to go through buggies when fired at certain angles). It is an inconsistency that should be rectified.

Another example is snipers and the lethality of shots in general. If I fire a rifle at a target, and my shot finds its mark, then I expect from my knowledge of the real world, that it will cause significant damage to the person. Perhaps not one-shot-kill, but maybe up to two or three shots would take them down. I would expect a head-shot to be instantly fatal.

Ammo and healing bags are another. I can expect from my knowledge of the real world that a medic may take some time to treat by wounds, or another soldier take time to re-arm me. But instant healing and rearming defies our intuitive expectations. Same for defibs - no one gets back into battle instantly after being revived by a defib. Another thing that defies intuition.

Basically, while some compromises need to be made to make a game playable and fun, the game environment should comply with what an ordinary person would expect as being within reasonable bounds of reality. Not complete realism, but at least enough compliance for the game environment not be utterly unintuitive with our a priori knowledge of the real world, which is what the game is based on.

Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

How can you say that? Its the same game with new skins and some models (mod!).

Or is it because it sooo futuristic anything goes?