Implied realism and expectations of such.

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  • Consultant01

    #1

    Implied realism and expectations of such.

    Do you guys and gals think that the very subject matter and content of BF2 implies that there will be a certain level of realism included?

    I do. Let me explain why.

    The game is based in reality. Humans combating humans in the present day. The game utilized armies based in reality (the USMC its counterparts) and weapons in existence. To my knowledge, every projectile weapon, flying machine, wheeled and tank-tread driven vehicle exists in the world we live in. Each has its strengths and weaknesses and these are mirrored, to some extent, in the game.

    Why go to all the trouble of modeling real weapons, real vehicles, real uniforms, real cities, real buildings, real projectile physics, if you are going to then muck it all up by creating some downright cartoonish inconsistencies?

    There are some that are obvious, like the .50 caliber sniper rifle not killing in one shot. (Heck, most sniper rifles would drop people in one shot). Thats what snipers do... they kill people from the shadows and do so with one shot (if they manage to hit). But in BF2, if a sniper manages a torso-shot on a running enemy at 300 yards, the lucky SOB has ample time to get behind cover and heal himself. That's frustrating for snipers (I'm not much of a sniper, so im not talkin about myself here.)

    Anti-vehicle missles/rockets. An ERYX to the engine-block/passenger cab of the vehicle could and probably would blow the vehicle to bits... if not the entire vehicle, then certainly its occupants I'm thinking.

    I dont know why I started this thread other than to say that I think games based in reality have an implied level of realism in them and to have them peform otherwise frustrates people greatly.

    The "Cone of fire" is my favorite though. To think that a highly refined rifle like the M4, M16, G36, M249 SAW, AK101, etc) would be alowed into service if it actually deviated that much from its iron-sights/laser dot is beyond me.

    anyway... I'm just sick of people calling this an arcade game... games based in reality should not be arcade games. and blind luck should have as LITTLE impact on the outcome of an encounter in an FPS as possible.

    Right now, as it stands in BF2 and the engine they have chosen to run with, I would put face to face encounters with other players at 50/50 luck/skill.
  • james_1991-fight
    Member
    • Oct 2006
    • 729

    #2
    Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

    well said, ive nvr thought about bf2 like that before, and your right... It is made to be realistic but the actual stuff inside the game isnt :S

    Comment

    • Liam.

      #3
      Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

      You respawn when you die
      You can change kit/loadout everytime you die
      Every injury is magically healed with defibrillators
      No one has blood
      When you die a little bag comes out of your body for other people to pick up
      Anyone can jump in a boat/tank/helicopter/APC/jet and instantly know how to operate it safely
      You apply to command the troops
      You get points everytime you kill someone
      Friendly soldiers have their name floating above their head
      A helicopter and be shot heavily in the rotor and have no failure

      I could go on

      This equals arcade game.

      Comment

      • Bubas

        #4
        Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

        I don´t agree with you, this game is made to be fun, I never had the ilusion that the game was trying to portrait reality.
        That kind of game, in my opinion, would be dull.

        Comment

        • Chris_Redfield
          Member
          • Oct 2006
          • 5986

          #5
          Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

          Fun and gameplay over realism ANY day of the week.

          Comment

          • Mo0by
            gone somewhere
            • Jul 2006
            • 3854

            #6
            Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

            Originally posted by grena
            I don´t agree with you, this game is made to be fun, I never had the ilusion that the game was trying to portrait reality.
            That kind of game, in my opinion, would be dull.
            I agree.

            Real war isn't fun.

            Comment

            • ~WPN~Major Ursa

              #7
              Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

              The "real world" elements of BF2 appeal to many, many people. There is something that "real world" feel type games add to the immersion of the gamer that other "fantasy/sci-fi" games can't pull off.

              With that said, BF2 is a First Person Shooter. It is NOT a simulator. Therefore, certain elements MUST have an arcadey/gamey feel to them. Simulators are awesome, but they do not make for great game platforms. Action is all geared toward real time actions and this is usually too slow of a pace for most gamers to find appealing. (the noted exception would be flight sims and racing sims)

              So, in order for a FPS to attract the masses, they add "realism" and then to hold the masses, they make it fast paced and fun.

              Delicate balance. Personally, I would have stuck with more of the Desert Combat feel. It felt less "arcadey", but allowed for some really fast paced games and had an outstanding immersion factor.

              Comment

              • Consultant01

                #8
                Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

                That's what im getting at, immersion.

                The arcadey aspects of BF2 detract greatly from its immersion.

                BF1942 was way more immersive than BF2 could ever hope to be. Stuff like the UAV ruins the game in my opinion.

                The minimap/radar could go away for all I care. If a soldier physically looked at a map he could figure out where it was standing and which direction he was facing... give the game a MAP screen where he does just this. LOOKS at a map and determines his position. Give radar equipped vehicles a RADAR on their HUD. (Jeeps dont have radar)

                If a few of the little things were tweaked it could pump of the immersion of the game.

                (parachutes off 1 story buildings is another great one. I laugh when I see that)

                Comment

                • ~WPN~Major Ursa

                  #9
                  Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

                  The only hope lies with the mods when they come out. Some are trying to correct certain "arcadey" aspects of BF2 and make gameplay more in line with what will work better in providing immersion. We will just have to wait and see and test the mods as they come out.

                  Comment

                  • Consultant01

                    #10
                    Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

                    My opinion is starting to shift... Im thinking that the stats is the only thing keeping the game afloat.

                    I went all weekend without playing, got back in town last night at 8 PM and used the hours of game time I had to play the free version of Planetside.

                    Comment

                    • pYura

                      #11
                      Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

                      Try POE: you can kill with a man with one shot of .50 cal and you can blow up a tank with a 1 rocket if you are lucky :)

                      Comment

                      • The_Misfit

                        #12
                        Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

                        Its an "arcade" style game BASED off of realism....dont confuse the two just because you put an Eryx into a HUMVEE and it still ran you down :)

                        I mean, yah, .50 cal sniper won't kill in one shot. Well, if I shot you directly in the face with a Baretta (pistol), I'd make a guess it'd also = death. Do you want one round to the face to kill, no matter what gun?

                        Too many issues to address, radar, respawn, kits, defib, etc.... meh. There are games that have more realistic bullet damages, Rainbow6 comes to mind, and you seem to die much faster in something like AA as well.

                        Comment

                        • ImgSunscreen

                          #13
                          Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

                          Originally posted by ~WPN~Major Ursa
                          The "real world" elements of BF2 appeal to many, many people. There is something that "real world" feel type games add to the immersion of the gamer that other "fantasy/sci-fi" games can't pull off.

                          With that said, BF2 is a First Person Shooter. It is NOT a simulator. Therefore, certain elements MUST have an arcadey/gamey feel to them. Simulators are awesome, but they do not make for great game platforms. Action is all geared toward real time actions and this is usually too slow of a pace for most gamers to find appealing. (the noted exception would be flight sims and racing sims)

                          So, in order for a FPS to attract the masses, they add "realism" and then to hold the masses, they make it fast paced and fun.

                          Delicate balance. Personally, I would have stuck with more of the Desert Combat feel. It felt less "arcadey", but allowed for some really fast paced games and had an outstanding immersion factor.

                          I agree.

                          Comment

                          • Consultant01

                            #14
                            Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

                            If the BF2 character models were Super-Mario Brothers looking things, the expectations would be different.

                            They aren't though. They're computer representations of actual military personnel.

                            Comment

                            • imported_Rafterman
                              Member
                              • May 2005
                              • 1105

                              #15
                              Re: Implied realism and expectations of such.

                              I go both way on this - I understand it's an arcade game, but I also enjoy a more realistic type of gameplay. There are some obvious things that could be addressed (parachuting off of a building for example) and other things that would up the realism w/o effecting playability (weapon accuracy for example).

                              I've always felt that Forgotten Hope for BF42 struck a good balance.

                              Comment

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