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Information vs. Information Blackout

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  • Information vs. Information Blackout

    Very good thread over on the UK EA Forums I thought I'd post a link to for people that don't normally visit that site.

    http://forum.eagames.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=28525

    Here it is as well, to give you two different color formats to read it in :

    Elsewhere on these forums, in response to comments from the community regarding its frustration over the current state of affairs, the following response was tendered to the readers of that thread:

    EAUK_Sentience wrote:
    "We appreciate there is significant frustration at the delay of the patch and that there is not more information forthcoming on when the patch is likely to be released. However this is for one simple reason - that information is unavailable at this time.

    We will only give updates and information regarding the release of the patch if we're satisfied that it is 100% accurate. We do not deal in speculation or "possibilities" as the outcome of this tends to be highly negative when, as will frequently occur, it end up being inaccurate.

    I appreciate that your comments are constructive in nature, but unfortunately that's the way it is. We're doing what we can to keep you up to date on how things are, but if there's no new information then there's no new information.

    If you'd like to discuss this further, please feel free to contact me by PM."


    Comments such as these, while probably true, are hard to appreciate as they have been shared with the community on these and other forums to such a degree that there should scarcely be a gamer seated in front of his/her monitor, reading such words, who has not already heard them in one form or another. I feel it is safe to say that we are all well aware of EA/Dice's policies regarding the information blackout that exists between their developers and us, their client gamers. I do sympathize with the position that our admins find themselves in, more often than not being asked to step into the line of fire day and night, in order to hand feed us what ultimately amounts to EA/Dice's imperious, pluralis majestatis (using the royal "us" and "we") response, as much to them as to us, "You will not get anything from us until we want you to have it."

    Having said that, I believe there has been some misunderstanding on just what the community wants when it clamors for, "Updates from EA." Certainly, and official statement regarding the intended release date for a delayed patch, for example, would be well received by most in the community. However, this really is only one pigment in a much larger picture.

    The community wants to be kept abreast of EA/Dice's current developments. To that end, we were lead to believe that EA/Dice had hired "global community managers" to fill that role and keep us informed with regular, substantial updates regarding everything from progress on fixes for common bugs and exploits, to gameplay/balance tuning and new content. However, what we seem to receive is lots of information from EA/Dice with regard to new (retail) content updates, and very little about their progress developing fixes for game-breaking bugs and balance issues. Little has changed in that respect and it is here that I believe that EA/Dice has missed the boat completely.

    Perhaps, to some extent, it is the fault of the community in the way that it has phrased its requests for information. Phrases like, "When will Feature_X be available," as often as they are used, express a very finite thought or sentiment. What the community really wants to know and see is what "progress" (a better word) is being made with Feature_X. We want to know "where Feature_X is at" in terms of its development cycle. What parts of it are completed, what parts of it seem to be giving the developers trouble and what they feel are some solutions, how do the developers intend for it to fit in the game (an excellent question that should have been asked of the infamous cartillery feature), and so on. The actual "when will it be ready" questions are less important to a degree for those of us who realize that more time to perfect said feature(s) is more important as long as we know what is actually happening with it.

    A community that is already discouraged by a deeply flawed product, kept in the dark about developments to fix it, is a remarkably poor idea. Such a community will flounder and finally fail completely for such things remove from many the spark of hope that keeps them active and passionate about the game that they are attached to. While it may be true that giving statements that appear to commit developers to a certain course of action (ie: deadlines for patches to go live) may offend some when those commitments are not met, not saying anything seems to have offended just as many, if not more, over the long term. Recent polls and other general threads appear to have shown a significant shift in the balance of opinions coming from "happy" and "angry" players compared to results in the past.

    Lastly, I would like to give an example of an industry leader who has provided detailed information to his community members for the better part of a decade. I am sure that many of us here are already familiar with the ".plan" documents (later kept in blog format, links below) that John Carmack has published with regular, highly detailed, online updates since 1997 at least. In so far as I can tell, in all of these Mr. Carmack expressed both his plans and what he thought were good and/or bad ideas, going on to explain why, for whatever game engine he was working on at the time. People who knew where to look almost never had to ask an ID representative, "What's up with Feature_X in <insert ID titled software here>?" It was practically all there already.

    I'm not saying there weren't any whiners and complainers in forums related to ID products. But EA/Dice must be aware that it is possible to provide the community with good information without making either commitments or entering into the realms of speculation and "possibilities". Any decent communicator worth two wits will be happy to confirm this. And an informed community is generally a happier one. Finding updates from EA/Dice of similar caliber/quality as those published by Mr. Carmack over the years would probably go a long way toward strengthening community relationships with EA/Dice.

    On a personal note I've never ever felt left in the dark by ID Games' administration as I do now with EA/Dice's. Regular updates from game developers are more than possible, as Mr. Carmack has shown us, and can only benefit their client communities. Someone, somewhere out there must have a clue as to what is going on with BF2 and we want to hear what they have to say. We're not necessarily asking for committals in their responses, we just want to know what they think.

    Links to John Camack's .Plan documents and other material:
    GameFinger Plan - John Carmack, id Software, Owner / Lead Programmer
    doom-ed.com blogs – John Carmack - This site takes a while to load up... must be low on hamster food.
    John Carmack's Blog

    Discuss/Flame as you will, but if you didn't read it, don't post saying how terribly long it was. Use your grey matter instead.

    [Edit] Spelling and grammar; work in progress. Shocked

  • #2
    Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

    to long to read. i was so close to fall asleep

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

      Originally posted by yehaaa7
      to long to read. i was so close to fall asleep
      I despise people like you

      Very well argued and eloquent to boot - I appreciate such efforts

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

        Originally posted by yehaaa7
        to long to read. i was so close to fall asleep
        Pretty funny i was thinking the same thing before i read your post.:laugh:

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

          Helluva post there.

          Too bad it's a snowball's chance in hell that EA/Dice will realize the error of their ways. I guess maybe they're worried about giving away secrets, getting hopes up on something that doesn't end up making the final cut or perhaps having a properly informed, happy gaming community scares them!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

            While I like his eloquence and detail on what type of updates he is looking for, I think he is in dreamland if he thinks he will get them. They just don't have to keep us knowledgeable in order to sell us games. We will still buy/patch/use whatever they put out regardless of detailed awareness of such. If the game is good, it simply will be put to use.

            A community that is already discouraged by a deeply flawed product, kept in the dark about developments to fix it, is a remarkably poor idea. Such a community will flounder and finally fail completely for such things remove from many the spark of hope that keeps them active and passionate about the game that they are attached to.
            Just think about Duke Nukem... if that game were to come out tomorrow and kick arse, we'd all be first in line to buy it. I'm sure we wouldn't all just go "my spark of hope and passion is gone, never again will i play duke nukem games". whatever. We will play them still.

            I applaud his initiative to write such a post, but in the end it's just as futile as the all more common "where the f is patch 1.4?" thread.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

              i read the whole thing but my english is bad

              so i dont understand much but if he talk a bout pll bit**ing
              about the patch and give EA the fault
              then i feel his pain

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

                Thanks for the information OP. That guy had some great, difficult points that I don't think EA/Dice can really defend. It's the truth. The "When" is not important when we know a little bit more about what's going on.

                You guys should read it whether or not it's long.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

                  great post OP
                  but - too bad Dice/EA will ignore it as they did all of us aleady

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

                    A few significant differences. ID wants the best game possible, period. It's done when it's done. Activision as a publisher has handled this very well and profitted from it. EA on the other hand seems to set lines in the sand for release dates (like many companies) and it ships whether it's done or not. Dice kind of has their hands tied at that point. They too want to ship the best game possible, but when push comes to shove, they've bowed to the EA way.

                    The other major thing to consider is when John Carmack puts up his development logs, he's not worried about the community picking through them and finding flaws. I'd argue that someone who found a flaw in his development process and presented it in a reasonable format would find a warm reception and an attentive ear. Switch gears and if Dice reveals the same level of detail about their inner workings a flaw in their internal procedures could be revealed that they would rather not address, but be forced to by community scrutiny.

                    Another major advantage ID has is Carmack, as a single person, has an enormous amount of influence on the direction ID takes from both a creative and business perspective. No one person (or group of people) at EA or Dice commands that level of power.

                    And really, until people vote with their wallets. Nothing will change, because $$$ is the language of big business. As long as it's coming in, in the expected quantities "We don't have a problem." So everyone that says, "Yeah, I'm not happy with BF2, but I'm still gonna buy 2142." You might as well have not said anything at all. All they heard was the second part. If on the otherhand 2142 were to flop at retail, then you'd find an eager listener at EA.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

                      This all seems like some elabrorate, but unintended, conspiracy.:|:

                      Even though I am part of this vast community, I feel like the issue is none of my business. I just want to play.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

                        BF2 Mods will take over.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

                          Originally posted by cantina_fly
                          A few significant differences. ID wants the best game possible, period. It's done when it's done. Activision as a publisher has handled this very well and profitted from it. EA on the other hand seems to set lines in the sand for release dates (like many companies) and it ships whether it's done or not. Dice kind of has their hands tied at that point. They too want to ship the best game possible, but when push comes to shove, they've bowed to the EA way.

                          The other major thing to consider is when John Carmack puts up his development logs, he's not worried about the community picking through them and finding flaws. I'd argue that someone who found a flaw in his development process and presented it in a reasonable format would find a warm reception and an attentive ear. Switch gears and if Dice reveals the same level of detail about their inner workings a flaw in their internal procedures could be revealed that they would rather not address, but be forced to by community scrutiny.

                          Another major advantage ID has is Carmack, as a single person, has an enormous amount of influence on the direction ID takes from both a creative and business perspective. No one person (or group of people) at EA or Dice commands that level of power.

                          And really, until people vote with their wallets. Nothing will change, because $$$ is the language of big business. As long as it's coming in, in the expected quantities "We don't have a problem." So everyone that says, "Yeah, I'm not happy with BF2, but I'm still gonna buy 2142." You might as well have not said anything at all. All they heard was the second part. If on the otherhand 2142 were to flop at retail, then you'd find an eager listener at EA.
                          The Dice of old is dead it died the moment EA became the majority shareholder.

                          So when the Dice puppet speaks it's EA with it's hand up the back.

                          As for OP's post I found it thoughtful and a good read he makes some very good points.

                          Will anything change probably not.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

                            While I agree with everything the op has pasted, it would not matter. Info no info, EA still is getting paid. Look at all the preorders for 2142, same engine, same bugs. So few care about their "moneys worth" that EA doesnt really need to care about "your moneys worth". They wave a few trinkets and shiny Rank symbols and they have a winner. Mods will fail because of the trinkets. EA just need look at the hrs played to see that while 1000's are complaining about the game, 1000's more dont care and play away.

                            As long as people still buy the product and those who complain are still playing then why would they work any harder or faster to get things right? Its the consumers fault for allowing it to happen and continue to be the modis.

                            I personnally cant wait for 2142, just so I can sit back and wach all the fools who paid for it already complain about it. Same engine, same bugs, same players.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Information vs. Information Blackout

                              OMG! he refered to Id's .plan files! GG +10 Karma! I need to go over to some of my old posts now and at to this. Lock-step with some of my feelings.

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